Calling all US Military Fall 2018 Applicants!

Note, I’m will apply to B-schools during R1 in 2020. I will begin B-school in the fall of 2021 as a member of the class of 2023. I say that to make it clear that I have some time to work on my profile. My below profile details the work experience I will have when I apply.

Male, white, 29 years old.

GMAT: 690 unofficial. 45Q 40V IR 7 on 13 January 2017

GPA: 3.82 at United States Military Academy at West Point. B.S. in Economics with Honors.

Work Experience:
7 years in the United States Army. Served as an Infantry Officer.

Graduate of U.S. Army Ranger and Airborne School.

3 years assigned to an airborne brigade in Vicenza, Italy. During that time I serve as a Platoon Leader (Manager) leading 40 Soldiers, Company Executive Officer (Deputy Senior Manager) and Battalion Logistics Officer (managed/coordinated logistical requirements for 800 man unit across multiple international borders).

Currently assigned to University of New Hampshire where I serve as an Assistant Professor of Military Science. I train prospective Army Officers in leadership and military tactics.

Goals post MBA:
Looking to obtain a role as an operations or management consultant. My story goes something like: I had an education by experience on the fundamentals of leadership in the Army. I need the experience and education an MBA provides to give me the tools to help companies reach their maximum utilization of their systems and human capital.

Extracurriculars:
Judo assistant coach for UNH club team

My top schools in order:
Harvard
Wharton
Sloan
Kellogg
Booth

Any advice or tips are appreciated.

Hey jm1991,

That's great that you're planning so far ahead. You're maximizing your chance of success.

I think your GMAT is right on the border for a lot of those schools. You do have a couple years though so if you felt like you could have done better, it may be worth it to re-take.

For a point of reference, I'm a Marine captain (logistics officer) with a 760 GMAT and I didn't even get interviewed at HBS or Wharton and got rejected from Sloan post-interview.

Don't mean to scare you. I've met many vets with lower GMATs at these schools, but GMAT is something in your power to improve, so it's worth thinking about given the amount of time you have. Good luck.

Aside, just curious, how did you become a battalion S-4 as an infantry officer?

Go visit the schools you want to attend. Most will probably have some sort of military visit day in the Spring or Fall. Visit as early as you can. The vets at the schools will tell you what you need to do to get in and help you with stuff like resume, essays, interviews... The information and resources for putting together a strong application are out there (for free), you just need to do your homework.

You need to ask yourself what is unique about your profile.

As an Army Officer myself I look and see that you apparently did well at USMA and were in the top of your class given that you went to the 173rd. And that you performed in the top 10% or so of your peers obviously since you were given the S4 job. Then you took an ROTC job. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not a highly competitive position, given that people with 6 years or so in are going to apply with command experience, many with combat deployments.

The ADCOMs at a place like HBS aren't going to recognize these signs in your profile, but they probably have current vets translate it for them.

So overall I'd say your military experience is a B+, GPA is great, GMAT is a huge weak link. How your LORs sound is going to be important as well. Hopefully your old battalion commander from 173rd can write you a great one.

So I'd say you're competitive at all the schools except Harvard IF you can retake the GMAT and get a score at or above 730 or 740. ADCOMS are likely going to not even offer you an interview with a 690 because it shows you didn't care enough to really study for it, and the rest of your profile doesn't really make up for a low GMAT.

Even with a 730+ it's a crapshoot at HBS but you would be competitive. You have to remember you are competing against people with the same stats or better, and a lot of people with WAY more impressive military credentials (SEALs, SF, Regiment, fighter pilots, etc.) Not trying to slag you being an IN Officer, I'm one myself, but we are a dime a dozen, and the Admissions teams have no way to tell what a stellar IN officer is vs an above average one wheras they all know what a SEAL or Green Beret is. If you deployed to Afghanistan then that might make you more competitve but from what I remember your unit hasn't been over there for several years.

Harvard can find vets with a 730+ Gmat and 3.7 GPA by the dozens. What makes your profile unique? In 173rd you probably did a lot of multinational exercises, definitely bring up that international experience in your resume and essays. And again, I wouldn't even apply to HBS until you retake the GMAT. That score isn't even really competitive at Booth or Wharton either but maybe your GPA will make up for it, but why take a chance?

Just another random military guy who's applying this cycle, but I've done a lot of research. Take my opinion for what it's worth, which is what you paid for it. good luck.

jboog, thanks for the candid feedback. I'll spend some time developing what makes my profile unique.

Filthydelphia, thanks for the tips. To your aside, in Army battalions the S4 OIC is typically the branch (or MOS) of the battalion. The T/O of Army infantry battalions calls for an Infantry officer as S4 OIC. Just a difference, between the way the Army and USMC are organized.

jboog, thanks for the candid feedback. I'll spend some time developing what makes my profile unique.

Filthydelphia, thanks for the tips. To your aside, in Army battalions the S4 OIC is typically the branch (or MOS) of the battalion. The T/O of Army infantry battalions calls for an Infantry officer as S4 OIC. Just a difference, between the way the Army and USMC are organized.

Don't totally agree with everything jboog said here. I had a buddy this year in R1 get an interview at HBS with a 670 GRE equivalent and 3.3 engineering GPA (also white male). He ended up getting waitlisted though. I interviewed at Booth with a 700 GMAT and 3.6 GPA, but was ultimately denied. There is no formula. I did the free consultations with a few of the major MBA consulting companies (Stacy Blackman, Veritas, Accepted...), and they all said my GMAT was my only real weak point. A higher GMAT can only help though. I took the GMAT 4x and got the exact same score on the 3rd and 4th attempt. I had scored higher on practice tests, but most the advice I got from vets was to let it go and begin working on my narrative, figuring out my ST and LT career goals, visiting schools, writing a resume. My point is that there is a diminishing value of GMAT attempts.

Writing the essays is terrible and took me about 6 weeks per school. There was not a ton of overlap from school to school either. I doubt HBS's essay will change, either will Whartons, Booth seems to like their Booth moment essay... My last attempt at the GMAT was in Feb 2017, from there I spent the rest of the time working on other parts. R1 apps were due in September.

I cannot understate the importance of visiting schools. The two schools I got into were the two schools I visited. On one of my acceptance phone calls the adcom even said she was impressed that I had visited so early in the process and was clearly committed to X school. If you go to the military visit days, you will likely meet the military adcom liason in person. I think most schools have adcom liaisons at this point for military, international students, URMs, etc. That person is likely going to review your application. Current students can also add a letter to your application, not sure how much of impact this has, but it certainly can not hurt.


You need to find areas in your career where you have had an impact on your organization and how it affected you, not just leading a group of people. Jboog is probably right that ROTC is not a competitive billet in the Army, for submarine officers like myself, it is. I also know several of my counterparts at other schools that have made it into just about every top MBA program, so I do not think you're at a disadvantage by being at an ROTC. More important is how you tell this story. I wanted to go work at an NROTC because I knew that I was likely getting out of the military and wanted to mold the next generation of officers, and as I leave the military, I know that I have made a final impact by commissioning some great kids. You have the opportunity to impact the lives of 50+ college students who want to do your job. Wrong answer = its an easy job to get that does not involve a lot of work and I can focus on my transition from the military. This principle will hold true for every decision you have made in your career from attending college to why you are leaving the military.

Lastly, I got a lot of help from an organization called Service2School, which is more a less a free MBA consulting service. Its run by MBA alum and current students.

So you know someone that didn't get into HBS with a low GRE and that somehow invalidates my point?

Suggesting somenoe should just ignore a glaring weakness in their application when he has years before he's even applying and could retake seems like bad advice here. I agree with the rest of your comment though.

No. My point was in the last sentence of that paragraph, and I also said a higher GMAT can only help. Its possible to achieve your goal without a 730+ GMAT and don't wast all of your time chasing a high GMAT score. Obviously take the GMAT or GRE again, but as deadlines approach, 6 weeks studying for another GMAT attempt vs 6 weeks writing essays, the essays could pay off more.

I also think that the interview at HBS carries more weight than at other schools since its conducted by the adcom instead of students/alumni, so just getting an interview is a challenge along with waitlisted. Read through clearadmit and you will see various acceptances and dings with all gmat scores.

I agree. The interview carries weight, but how much is uncertain.

You'll also read in a lot of those interview reports that people thought they had tremendous interviews and had prepped with top consultants and still get dinged.

It's not like an interview invite just means you need to do well there and you're in. They still rack and stack everyone after all interviews before they send out admits. GPA/GMAT and other data points could still be in play there. For all we know your friend got passed over for admission because someone else also did well on the interview but had a GMAt that was 40 points higher. Or maybe she just blew the interview. Impossible to know unless you're an adcom.

Bottom line is as you say, a mediocre GMAT won't kill your chances, but you may as well maximize one of the few important things you can on your application.

I have a 760 GMAT, was a battalion S-4 and an H&S Company Commander, and served in non-combat deployment in Europe like jm1991, and I didn't even get interviews at HBS, CBS, Wharton, or Stanford; and both Sloan 2-year and Sloan Fellows rejected me following interview.

I would consider improving a 690 GMAT since he has the time.



Interesting. I did not know that. I guess there are advantages to being intimate with the ground combat side, but having dedicated logisticians seems more efficient (Being S-4 is their core competency). Then again, you guys also split up Logistics into Quartermasters and Transpo, so it's a different skillset.

EDIT: got confused who was saying GMAT's not a big deal.

I didn't mean to come off as "GMAT is not a big deal". You should score as high as you can, but if you're like me, getting the same score twice in a row after about a year of studying and taking tests, you may feel like you're not capable of a 730+, and there are other important parts of your application and the process that you shouldn't overlook.

1st lieutenant here who just returned from deployment. idt we had an officer on brigade staff who was actually MOSQ'd for the position they were filling. logisticians filling engineer battle captain role, engineers filling brigade s4 role, combat engineer NCO filling a brigade s1 role... was a mess but is somewhat common

White, Male, 25, Engineer Officer Army

3.55 GPA, Political Science

Non-combat missions in Bulgaria (Platoon Leader overseeing 40 Soldiers) and Romania and Poland (Brigade Staff member... staff collectively oversaw approximately 2400 soldiers)

Studying for GMAT using Economist GMAT and gmatclub question banks... shooting for 750

top choice- georgetown, Vanderbilt, top 20-40 schools

looking for any Georgetown acceptance stories from military officers!

If you get a 750, I think you would be competitive at much better MBA programs, if that's what you want. Even with a 700-720, you'd be competitive most places.

At MK and Novo Selo? I was there in 2014-15 with the Marine rotation there.

yea! lol love MK and Novo Selo.

constanta was a blast and so was sunny beach

we were a 20 person brigade staff at MK. marines had a significantly larger footprint than the army while I was there.