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Re: As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time [#permalink]
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thereisaFire wrote:
GMATNinja wrote:
I think egmat was correct in this case, hazelnut, but the issue is more with the placement of the phrase "at one time", and not really with the difference between "once" and "at one time."

I'm not sure if this little exercise will help, but let's see what happens if we swap "once" and "at one time", but keep the placement the same as before. So which of these two would you prefer?

    (B)...many people who might at one time have died as children... now live well into old age.
    (D) ... many people who in childhood might have at one time died... now live well into old age.

And what about now?

    (B)...many people who might once have died as children... now live well into old age.
    (D) ... many people who in childhood might have once died... now live well into old age.

And here's the actual answer choices again:

    (B)...many people who might once have died as children... now live well into old age.
    (D) ... many people who in childhood might have at one time died... now live well into old age.

The problem is that in (D), "at one time" seems to be modifying "died" -- and as Shraddha pointed out, that doesn't make a lot of sense. If we think about what that's saying strictly and literally, it seems to imply that the people died once in childhood, but then kept living -- or least that's what it seems to be saying. In (B), "once" modifies "might have" -- suggesting that it's possible in the past that they could have died before modern medicine became more awesome.

It's a tricky question to explain! I'm surprised that it's tagged as sub-600 level -- this one is slippery, but I hope that this made some sense.


Hi GMATNinja egmat AjiteshArun VeritasKarishma

I have a confusion in choice B and choice E.

(B) who might once have died in childhood

As mentioned by GMATNinja, placement of words is important here. I believe that the placement of word died should have been closer to the its reason i.e. died of such infections as X and Y.

Using this logic, I eliminated B as the word "died" is placed a little far from its reason.

(E) who, when they were children, might at one time have died

E states that the people might at one time have died (implying that people might have died in the past).
I sense no error in the placement of "at one time" and believe that placement of "at one time" and "once" matters more than their individual meanings as both convey the same meaning if placed aptly.

E is wordy but that is not enough to eliminate it.

Please shed some light on this.

The placement of words is only important to the extent that it impacts the sentence's meaning. In other words, you'd never eliminate an answer choice because a modifier was simply too far from what it was describing. "Too far" is subjective. But you might eliminate an option because the construction creates an illogical or unclear meaning.

And (E), in this case is illogical. The construction "when they were children, might at one time have died," creates the impression that some kids died "at one time" when they "were children" and maybe at another time during a different life phase? That might happen in zombie movies, but not on the GMAT.

Contrast that with the relevant portion of (B):

Quote:
Many people, who might once have died in childhood...

Notice that "once" is functioning differently here. It's no longer giving us something that happened "when they were children," a phrase that doesn't appear in this option. Instead, it's referring to a different historical time period altogether, one when people might have died during childhood. Sad, but also perfectly logical.

I hope that clears things up!
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Re: As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time [#permalink]
Hi GMATNinja AjiteshArun GMATNinjaTwo

I tried this question after few months and got again wrong.
I remembered I was confused in choosing B vs D on basis of onetime vs once and might placement

Actually this time I choose D :

Quote:
As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time have died as children of such infections as diphtheria, pneumonia, or rheumatic fever now live well into old age.
(B) who might once have died in childhood
(D) who in childhood might have at one time died


I read B as:
people who xxx in childhood of such infections
I read D as:
people who in childhood xxxxx died of such infections

Both people who xx and died of such infections in D makes more clarity than B ) children of such infections

I still feel once/one time should not be a big deal as the meaning is almost similar word by word. If one word makes change in meaning then my reasoning above of modifiers should also make sense, right?

Please suggest GMATNinja AjiteshArun GMATNinjaTwo
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Re: As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time [#permalink]
How is the use of present perfect correct here??
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Re: As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time [#permalink]
As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time have died as children of such infections as diphtheria, pneumonia, or rheumatic fever now live well into old age.

(A) that might at one time have died as children -> one time, two time...It doesn't make sense.

(B) who might once have died in childhood -> There is no error. Let's keep it.

(C) that as children might once have died -> Do we need "that". Incorrect.

(D) who in childhood might have at one time died -> Same as A. Incorrect.

(E) who, when they were children, might at one time have died -> Same as A. Incorrect.

So, I think B. :)
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Re: As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time [#permalink]
As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time have died as children of such infections as diphtheria, pneumonia, or rheumatic fever now live well into old age.

If we cross out the long prepositional phrase, we're left with:

As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time have died as children of such infections as diphtheria, pneumonia, or rheumatic fever now live well into old age.

As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time have died as children now live well into old age.

The non-underlined portion of the sentence ends with 'now live well into old age.'

So we're comparing two time periods: in childhood and into old age

Since the non-underlined portion ends with 'into old age', ideally we want to place 'in childhood' at the end of the first event too.

Only B does this:

As a result of medical advances, many people who might once have died in childhood now live well into old age.

D is tempting but messes up the placement of the modifiers:

It's similar to changing the ending of the sentence to: many people who... into old age live well now
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Re: As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time [#permalink]
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pk6969 wrote:
How is the use of present perfect correct here??


Hello pk6969,

We hope this finds you well.

To resolve your query, through the phrase "might once have died" this sentence presents a hypothetical situation that would have concluded in the past, and this hypothetical continues to affect the present because those who might have died have instead lived well into old age.

Thus, the use of the present perfect tense is correct.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time [#permalink]
MartyTargetTestPrep - thank you for today's session

Per my understaning once vs at one time IS NOT a legitimate split

Between B and D - Its the word order regarding "in childhood" that is the issue

As an analogy - created a simpler analogy - i dont see how the 'word order' changes anything in the analogy between B and D - both mean the same thing to me personally

Quote:
Sam who might have died in ww2 of fever is healthy
Sam who in ww2 might have died of fever is healthy.
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Re: As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time [#permalink]
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jabhatta2 wrote:
MartyTargetTestPrep - thank you for today's session

Per my understaning once vs at one time IS NOT a legitimate split

Between B and D - Its the word order regarding "in childhood" that is the issue

As an analogy - created a simpler analogy - i dont see how the 'word order' changes anything in the analogy between B and D - both mean the same thing to me personally

Quote:
Sam who might have died in ww2 of fever is healthy
Sam who in ww2 might have died of fever is healthy.

Those seem about the same to me too.

How about this one:

Jim, who in olden days might have worked in a factory when he was 13, has never held a job.

Jim, who when he was 13 might have worked in a factory in olden days, has never held a job.

The first is a bit more logical than the second.
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Re: As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time [#permalink]
TraderAK wrote:
Maulikgmat wrote:
121. As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time have died as children of such infections as diphtheria, pneumonia, or rheumatic fever now live well into old age.
(A) that might at one time have died as children
(B) who might once have died in childhood
(C) that as children might once have died
(D) who in childhood might have at one time died
(E) who, when they were children, might at one time have died
Is the use of might at one time not correct when compared to Might once???
Please explain ur answer.


Answer B

"might at one time" and "might once" both are correct. But "once" is precise as compared to "at one time". So, "once" is preferred.

"who" should be used to refer to people.

agree "that/which" are used to refer non living things so the options containing "that" will be out

"in childhood" is parallel to "into old age".
"when they are children" is not parallel to "into old age".

sequence:
part I of sentence --> once - have died - in childhood
part II of sentence --> now - live - into old age
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Re: As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time [#permalink]
Hello Experts,

Could you please explain the difference in "people who" vs "people that". I thought it was okay to say "people that" because the that is acting as a relative pronoun and introducing extra info about the people. Are the both acceptable and need to look for further issues outside of the "who" vs "that"?

Thanks!!
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Re: As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time [#permalink]
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capsguy2018 wrote:
Hello Experts,

Could you please explain the difference in "people who" vs "people that". I thought it was okay to say "people that" because the that is acting as a relative pronoun and introducing extra info about the people. Are the both acceptable and need to look for further issues outside of the "who" vs "that"?

Thanks!!




Hello capsguy2018,

Hope you are doing well. I will be glad to help you with this one. :)


You are correct in saying that both "who" and "that" act as relative pronoun modifiers and modify the preceding noun. However, in GMAT SC, "who" is used for humans, while "that" is used for animals and inanimate objects. This distinction we must keep in mind while solving sentences with "who" and "that".


Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
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Re: As a result of medical advances, many people that might at one time [#permalink]
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capsguy2018 wrote:
Hello Experts,

Could you please explain the difference in "people who" vs "people that". I thought it was okay to say "people that" because the that is acting as a relative pronoun and introducing extra info about the people. Are the both acceptable and need to look for further issues outside of the "who" vs "that"?

Thanks!!


Grammarians accept the use of both 'who' and 'that' for 'people' though GMAT prefers 'who.'
I would not take a call on who vs that and would look for other issues in the sentences. If the sentences were identical otherwise, then I would pick the one that uses 'who.'
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