The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to : Data Sufficiency (DS)

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snorkeler

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The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

Updated on: 14 Nov 2016, 09:47

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The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to win all of its remaining games. What was the ratio of games won to the games lost by the team, if there were no ties?

(1) If team had won 25% of all its games, it would have lost 30 more games than it actually did.
(2) The team won 75% of all its games.

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Originally posted by snorkeler on 04 Jun 2016, 12:32.
Last edited by Bunuel on 14 Nov 2016, 09:47, edited 2 times in total.

Edited the question.

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persist99

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Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

04 Aug 2016, 03:19

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Let the team won 25% of the first x matches and all of the remaining y matches.

Total matches: x+y
So matches won: x/4 + y
Matches lost:3x/4

Required ratio (games won to games lost): (x/4 + y): (3x/4) --> (x+4y): 3x --> 1/3 + (4/3)(y/x)

So we only have to check if we can find the ratio 'y/x'.

Statement 1: If team had won 25% of all its games, it would have lost 30 more games than it actually did.
--------------
total wins: (x+y)/4 so total loss= 3/4 *(x+y) which should be equal to (3x/4 + 30)
3x/4 + 3y/4= 3x/4 + 30 so we get 3y/4 = 30. So y=40 >>> but we don't know x. >>>>Insufficient

Statement 2:The team won 75% of all its games.
--------------

Matches won: 3/4 *(x+y) But we know from question stem that matches won= x/4 + y

Equating, 3x/4 + 3y/4 =x/4 + y --> x/2= y/4 ---> we get the ratio x/y=1/2 >>>> hence sufficient.

>>>>>>> My answer B.

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KarishmaB

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Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

08 Jun 2016, 23:07

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snorkeler wrote:

The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to win all of its remaining games. What was the ratio of games won to the games lost by the team, if there were no ties?

(1)If team had won 25% of all its games, it would have lost 30 more games than it actually did.
(2)The team won 75% of all its games.

Responding to a pm:

I would use weighted averages concept here:

There are two groups: first games and rest of the games
First games - team won 25% of these
Rest games - team won 100% of these

First look at statement 2:

Stmnt 2: We know the average "won" percentage. So we can find the ratio of number of first games to number of rest of the games and hence the ratio of games won to games lost. You don't need to do those calculations but if you want to see them, here goes:
wF/wR = (100 - 75)/(75 - 25) = 1/2
First games : Rest games = 1:2 = 4:8 (for convenience - to calculate 25%, 75% etc)
The team won 25% of first games so 1 game and 100% of rest games so 8 games. In all, the team won 9 games and lost 3.
Ratio of won:lost = 3:1
Sufficient

Stmnt 1:
The team won 25% of its first games. If it had won 25% of all games, then it would have won 25% of rest of the games too. In that case, it would have lost 75% of the rest of the games extra which is given to be 30.
75% of Rest Games = 30
Rest of the games = 40
Now we still don't know how many games were there in the first lot.

Say there were 40 games in the first lot too.
Games won = 10 + 40 = 50
Games lost = 30
Ratio of won:lost = 5:3

Say there were 100 games in the first lost.
Games won = 25 + 40 = 65
Games lost = 75
Ratio of won:lost = 13:14

Not sufficient

Answer (B)

fantaisie

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Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

04 Jun 2016, 12:50

Are we supposed to assume that the number of the first and the remaining games was the same? Thanks.

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snorkeler

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Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

04 Jun 2016, 12:57

Hi

No, you aren't supposed to assume that.

"won 25% of its first games and went on to win all of its remaining games" - remaining is unknown, you have to check for the logical connection or clues from the statements to determine the ratio of total matches won to total matches lost by the team.

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msk0657

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Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

26 Jun 2016, 12:08

VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:

snorkeler wrote:

The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to win all of its remaining games. What was the ratio of games won to the games lost by the team, if there were no ties?

(1)If team had won 25% of all its games, it would have lost 30 more games than it actually did.
(2)The team won 75% of all its games.

Responding to a pm:

I would use weighted averages concept here:

There are two groups: first games and rest of the games
First games - team won 25% of these
Rest games - team won 100% of these

First look at statement 2:

Stmnt 2: We know the average "won" percentage. So we can find the ratio of number of first games to number of rest of the games and hence the ratio of games won to games lost. You don't need to do those calculations but if you want to see them, here goes:
wF/wR = (100 - 75)/(75 - 25) = 1/2
First games : Rest games = 1:2 = 4:8 (for convenience - to calculate 25%, 75% etc)
The team won 25% of first games so 1 game and 100% of rest games so 8 games. In all, the team won 9 games and lost 3.
Ratio of won:lost = 3:1
Sufficient

Stmnt 1:
The team won 25% of its first games. If it had won 25% of all games, then it would have won 25% of rest of the games too. In that case, it would have lost 75% of the rest of the games extra which is given to be 30.
75% of Rest Games = 30
Rest of the games = 40
Now we still don't know how many games were there in the first lot.

Say there were 40 games in the first lot too.
Games won = 10 + 40 = 50
Games lost = 30
Ratio of won:lost = 5:3

Say there were 100 games in the first lost.
Games won = 25 + 40 = 65
Games lost = 75
Ratio of won:lost = 13:14

Not sufficient

Answer (B)

Hi Karishma,

Your answer is different from the OA, which is D.

Please find the same kind of question here m09-183831.html

By comparing these two questions, I am assuming that in the question it should have details regarding the number of first games.

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KarishmaB

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Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

26 Jun 2016, 22:39

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msk0657 wrote:

Hi Karishma,

Your answer is different from the OA, which is D.

Please find the same kind of question here m09-183831.html

By comparing these two questions, I am assuming that in the question it should have details regarding the number of first games.

That question and this question are different. That question gives you the number of games in the first lot.
"A chess player won 25 percent of the first 20 games he played and all of his remaining games"

This question does not. Without this information, statement 1 is not sufficient alone.

The answer here will not be (D). It will be (B). The original poster has put up incorrect OA.

ashwini86

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Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

27 Jun 2016, 02:10

VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:

msk0657 wrote:

Hi Karishma,

Your answer is different from the OA, which is D.

Please find the same kind of question here m09-183831.html

By comparing these two questions, I am assuming that in the question it should have details regarding the number of first games.

That question and this question are different. That question gives you the number of games in the first lot.
"A chess player won 25 percent of the first 20 games he played and all of his remaining games"

This question does not. Without this information, statement 1 is not sufficient alone.

The answer here will not be (D). It will be (B). The original poster has put up incorrect OA.

Hi Karishma,

Thank you for the detailed explanation I had the same approach but was surprised to see the Answer to be D , I went ahead with D

yosita18

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Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

02 Aug 2016, 23:07

VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:

The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to win all of its remaining games. What was the ratio of games won to the games lost by the team, if there were no ties?

(1)If team had won 25% of all its games, it would have lost 30 more games than it actually did.
(2)The team won 75% of all its games.

Responding to a pm:

I would use weighted averages concept here:

There are two groups: first games and rest of the games
First games - team won 25% of these
Rest games - team won 100% of these

First look at statement 2:

Stmnt 2: We know the average "won" percentage. So we can find the ratio of number of first games to number of rest of the games and hence the ratio of games won to games lost. You don't need to do those calculations but if you want to see them, here goes:
wF/wR = (100 - 75)/(75 - 25) = 1/2
First games : Rest games = 1:2 = 4:8 (for convenience - to calculate 25%, 75% etc)
The team won 25% of first games so 1 game and 100% of rest games so 8 games. In all, the team won 9 games and lost 3.
Ratio of won:lost = 3:1
Sufficient

Stmnt 1:
The team won 25% of its first games. If it had won 25% of all games, then it would have won 25% of rest of the games too. In that case, it would have lost 75% of the rest of the games extra which is given to be 30.
75% of Rest Games = 30
Rest of the games = 40
Now we still don't know how many games were there in the first lot.

Say there were 40 games in the first lot too.
Games won = 10 + 40 = 50
Games lost = 30
Ratio of won:lost = 5:3

Say there were 100 games in the first lost.
Games won = 25 + 40 = 65
Games lost = 75
Ratio of won:lost = 13:14

Not sufficient

Answer (B)

Quote:

Stmnt 2: We know the average "won" percentage. So we can find the ratio of number of first games to number of rest of the games and hence the ratio of games won to games lost. You don't need to do those calculations but if you want to see them, here goes:
wF/wR = (100 - 75)/(75 - 25) = 1/2

You have clearly mentioned that there are two groups (which was not obvious from the question that there are two groups):
There are two groups: first games and rest of the games
First games - team won 25% of these
Rest games - team won 100% of these

Can you please elaborate the relation between "First, Rest, and All"

From the statement 2:
The team won 75% of ALL its games.

How did you arrive at the following:
We know the average "won" percentage.
So, we can find the ratio of number of first games to number of rest of the games
and hence the ratio of games won to games lost.

You don't need to do those calculations but if you want to see them, here goes:
wF/wR = (100 - 75)/(75 - 25) = 1/2

Here, WF/WR is the ratio of "Won in First/Won in Rest".

I did not understand the numbers that you have subtracted in the numerator and the denominator.
Please explain.
Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Yosita

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KarishmaB

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Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

03 Aug 2016, 22:24

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yosita18 wrote:

Stmnt 2: We know the average "won" percentage. So we can find the ratio of number of first games to number of rest of the games and hence the ratio of games won to games lost. You don't need to do those calculations but if you want to see them, here goes:
wF/wR = (100 - 75)/(75 - 25) = 1/2

You have clearly mentioned that there are two groups (which was not obvious from the question that there are two groups):
There are two groups: first games and rest of the games
First games - team won 25% of these
Rest games - team won 100% of these

Can you please elaborate the relation between "First, Rest, and All"

From the statement 2:
The team won 75% of ALL its games.

How did you arrive at the following:
We know the average "won" percentage.
So, we can find the ratio of number of first games to number of rest of the games
and hence the ratio of games won to games lost.

You don't need to do those calculations but if you want to see them, here goes:
wF/wR = (100 - 75)/(75 - 25) = 1/2

Here, WF/WR is the ratio of "Won in First/Won in Rest".

I did not understand the numbers that you have subtracted in the numerator and the denominator.
Please explain.
Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Yosita

I am using the weighted average method Yosita. I have explained it in detail here: https://www.gmatclub.com/forum/veritas-prep-resource-links-no-longer-available-399979.html#/2011/03 ... -averages/
Read the explanation after going through this post.

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rakaisraka

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Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

13 Nov 2016, 14:37

VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:

snorkeler wrote:

The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to win all of its remaining games. What was the ratio of games won to the games lost by the team, if there were no ties?

(1)If team had won 25% of all its games, it would have lost 30 more games than it actually did.
(2)The team won 75% of all its games.

Responding to a pm:

I would use weighted averages concept here:

There are two groups: first games and rest of the games
First games - team won 25% of these
Rest games - team won 100% of these

First look at statement 2:

Stmnt 2: We know the average "won" percentage. So we can find the ratio of number of first games to number of rest of the games and hence the ratio of games won to games lost. You don't need to do those calculations but if you want to see them, here goes:
wF/wR = (100 - 75)/(75 - 25) = 1/2
First games : Rest games = 1:2 = 4:8 (for convenience - to calculate 25%, 75% etc)
The team won 25% of first games so 1 game and 100% of rest games so 8 games. In all, the team won 9 games and lost 3.
Ratio of won:lost = 3:1
Sufficient

Stmnt 1:
The team won 25% of its first games. If it had won 25% of all games, then it would have won 25% of rest of the games too. In that case, it would have lost 75% of the rest of the games extra which is given to be 30.
75% of Rest Games = 30
Rest of the games = 40
Now we still don't know how many games were there in the first lot.

Say there were 40 games in the first lot too.
Games won = 10 + 40 = 50
Games lost = 30
Ratio of won:lost = 5:3

Say there were 100 games in the first lost.
Games won = 25 + 40 = 65
Games lost = 75
Ratio of won:lost = 13:14

Not sufficient

Answer (B)

Hi Veritas , For St 2 do we need to calculate anything? If it won 75% then it means it lost 25%. So ratio is 3:1. Am I doing anything wrong? Thanks

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KarishmaB

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Location: Pune, India

Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

14 Nov 2016, 04:48

Expert Reply

rakaisraka wrote:

Hi Veritas , For St 2 do we need to calculate anything? If it won 75% then it means it lost 25%. So ratio is 3:1. Am I doing anything wrong? Thanks

Nope, nothing wrong.

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hellosanthosh2k2

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Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

23 Oct 2017, 10:53

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Let x = no of first games, y = no of remaining games

Given:
no of win = 0.25 x + y
no of loss = 0.75x

Question is win/loss => (0.25x + y)/(0.75x) =?, all we need is relation between x and y to answer this question.

total games = x+y

Statement1: If team had won 25% of all its games, it would have lost 30 more games than it actually did.
if won 25% of all => 0.25(x+y)
=> means lost 75% = 0.75(x+y) = 30 + 0.75x(actually did)
=> rearranging => 0.75x + 0.75y = 30 + 0.75x => gives value of y, but no x, so not suff to find relation between x and y

Statement2: The team won 75% of all its games.
=> win/total = 0.75
(0.25x + y)/(x+y) = 0.75
=> from above rearranging y = 2x, we found the relation and sufficient to answer the question

So Answer (B)

B

roy163

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Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

15 Aug 2020, 04:13

HI All,

I think the ans is D and my explanantion is as follows for it

Let the total number of games be played be =100
Let x= First number of games played, Team won 25/100 X, team lost 75/100X and team won (100-X ) all its remaining games

Option 1 – If team had won 25% of all its games, it would have lost 30 more games than it actually did.

100 is the total number of games the team played we assumed, as per option1 , it won 25, lost 75 so

75 =30+75/100*X
Solve for X = 60
Total games lost is 75/100X as derived above = 45
Total games won is 25/100 X + 100-X =55

SO clearly A is also sufficient
B has already proved to be sufficient by other,

Answer should be D

VeritasKarishma chetan2u @Bunel - Can you guys confirm this

Regards

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chetan2u

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Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

15 Aug 2020, 05:18

Expert Reply

roy163 wrote:

HI All,

I think the ans is D and my explanantion is as follows for it

Let the total number of games be played be =100
Let x= First number of games played, Team won 25/100 X, team lost 75/100X and team won (100-X ) all its remaining games

Option 1 – If team had won 25% of all its games, it would have lost 30 more games than it actually did.

100 is the total number of games the team played we assumed, as per option1 , it won 25, lost 75 so

75 =30+75/100*X
Solve for X = 60
Total games lost is 75/100X as derived above = 45
Total games won is 25/100 X + 100-X =55

SO clearly A is also sufficient
B has already proved to be sufficient by other,

Answer should be D

VeritasKarishma chetan2u @Bunel - Can you guys confirm this

Regards

That is not correct.
You are assuming the total to be 100. But if total is say 200 answer will be different.
You require to know actual number of total games. Statement I does not give that.
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hadimadi

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Re: The King Edward College team won 25% of its first games and went on to [#permalink]

02 Jan 2022, 07:06

Hi,

the question itself doesn't reveal enough information without statements (1) and (2) since "first games" is not defined.

(1) Let x be the number of total games played, W the real won games, L the real lost games. Then (1) tells us:

(0.25x)/(0.75x)=(W-30)/(L+30)
(1/3)=(W-30)/(L+30)
3W-L=60

We can't create a ratio W/L out of this

(2) The statements says:

(W/L)=(0.75x/0.25x)
(W/L)=3 -> Ratio is 3:1

So (B) is correct, no guarantees

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