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globaldesi wrote:
I believed answer to be C or D , not sure why A is correct. Can someone pls explain

Hello, globaldesi. As of this writing, I am the only person to answer correctly. I will do my best to explain what guided my thought process.

shreyanshgattani wrote:
.The planet, a newborn planet still forming around its star and one whose formation has been imaged, supports what astronomers have long believed: that such bodies are born of the disks of gas and dust that coalesce around young stars.

a) have long believed: that such bodies are born of the disks of gas and dust that coalesce

If you dismantle the what clause, you get, at a barebones level, supports the belief or supports astronomers' belief, and in that context, you can appreciate the role that that plays: supports the belief that such bodies are born... You would not omit that in such a context. Also, the present perfect works well here in have long believed, given the earlier clues still forming and has been imaged. In short, I see nothing to argue against, so this is a decent yellow-light option. Hang on while you look at the other options.

shreyanshgattani wrote:
b) had long believed: such bodies were born of the disks of gas and dust that coalesced

The past perfect is unwarranted here, as there is no action that is used in the sentence to compare to another action that occurred further in the past. To speak plainly, the astronomers appear to still believe something. This is not a belief that was discarded at some point in the past. The missing that is also noticeable, but if you were unsure about its inclusion, you could probably still safely eliminate this one on the verb tense alone from the beginning.

shreyanshgattani wrote:
c) long believed: such bodies are born of the disks of gas and dust that coalesce

To avoid beating a dead horse, I will focus on the one new element in front of us, the simple past believed. Like had believed of the previous answer choice, this verb tense indicates that astronomers at some point abandoned the notion that such bodies were born of disks and such. It is not that that could not be true, but (A), (D), and (E) all point to a different story, namely that this is, not was, a long-held belief.

shreyanshgattani wrote:
d) have long believed: such bodies are born of the disks of gas and dust that coalesce

Now we are forced to confront the that of choice (A). Again, if you straighten out the belief, you can see how the presence of that is necessary. Even a consideration of the partial sentence astronomers have long believed such bodies are born... reveals the gap that needs to be filled. A nominative that clause answers the question, What did the astronomers believe? Omitting the that is okay in casual parlance, but it would not make muster in a GMAT™ SC question such as this.

shreyanshgattani wrote:
e) have long believed that such bodies are born of the disks of gas and dust that coalesce

Without a break, supports what astronomers have long believed that... is a run-on. We need look no further.

I hope that helps. If you have further questions, I would be happy to offer my thoughts.

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Use of that after a colon does not makes sense?
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pranav952 wrote:
Is a colon followed by "that" redundant? If we remove either of them, the sentence makes perfect sense. I feel the answer should be D.


singhamet06 wrote:
Use of that after a colon does not makes sense?

I am not sure why there is any controversy over that here. To be clear, there is no redundancy. No grammar guide I can find speaks of this that "rule" following a colon. What follows the colon in this sentence answers the question, What have astronomers long believed?

pranav952, I would like to know exactly what you mean by remove either of them. Do you mean remove either the colon or that? Please propose a sentence to illustrate what you mean so that I can address any issues. If you point to (D) and simply assert that you think it is right, then we may just have to agree to disagree.

I would also be happy to hear what others, Experts and non-Experts alike, have to say. (It is kind of like seeking a second opinion with a medical diagnosis.)

GMATNinja
daagh
VeritasKarishma
AjiteshArun
DmitryFarber

Would any of you care to weigh in?

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All right, I find it a bit disheartening that none of the Experts I tagged earlier responded to this one. This is not to say that I am changing tack. I stand by my earlier analysis. I would simply like to hear from others who have more to add to the dialogue than, "I think (D) is right," "That is redundant," or, "This is a poor question." The goal is always to help the community better understand the nuances of SC questions, not about proving who is right or wrong.

With this aim in mind, I am going to send out another signal, in hopes of generating a more constructive dialogue. I know the question is not an official one, that perhaps the GMAT™ would not throw such a split at us, but that does not mean we cannot learn anything from the question.

generis
Abhi077
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egmat
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I ask again, would anyone like to contribute an analysis to this question? The community needs more guidance than I seem to be able to provide. Many thanks.

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Re: The planet, a newborn planet still forming around its star and one who [#permalink]
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Waiting for other experts to comment on this:

generis
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What is our learning from the question?
1. believed: that
2. believed that

both are idiomatically correct?

E is wrong because: supports what astronomers have long believed that ( that can be taken with "supports that"? ) please confirm : Why E is run-on?

Originally posted by mSKR on 23 Oct 2020, 00:58.
Last edited by mSKR on 23 Oct 2020, 18:53, edited 2 times in total.
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imSKR wrote:
What is our learning from the question?
1. believed: that
2. believed that

Hi imSKR, while not the exact same representation, following is an officially correct answer that is similar:

Some anthropologists believe that the genetic homogeneity evident in the world's people is the result of a "population bottleneck"that at some time in the past our ancestors suffered an event that greatly reduced their numbers and thus our genetic variation.

So, if that can follow a dash, I see no strong reason why that cannot follow a colon.
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EducationAisle wrote:
imSKR wrote:
What is our learning from the question?
1. believed: that
2. believed that

Hi imSKR, while not the exact same representation, following is an officially correct answer that is similar:

Some anthropologists believe that the genetic homogeneity evident in the world's people is the result of a "population bottleneck"that at some time in the past our ancestors suffered an event that greatly reduced their numbers and thus our genetic variation.

So, if that can follow a dash, I see no strong reason why that cannot follow a colon.

To piggyback off of what EducationAisle has written above, not too long ago, while I was helping a student go over SC questions he had missed, I came across this official question that places that immediately after a colon. The redundancy issue is based on a false assumption. What can I say? The community turned against me on this one, but in the end, I am glad to have gotten another Expert opinion, even if it took the intervention of another community member to tease one out. I look forward to seeing what more Experts have to say, even if they feel that there is a better answer than (A).

Thank you, imSKR and EducationAisle.

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imSKR wrote:
Waiting for other experts to comment on this:

generis
Abhi077
EMPOWERgmatVerbal
EducationAisle
egmat
CrackVerbalGMAT
GMATCoachBen
MartyTargetTestPrep

What is our learning from the question?
1. believed: that
2. believed that

both are idiomatically correct?

E is wrong because: supports what astronomers have long believed that ( that can be taken with "supports that"? ) please confirm AndrewN sir


Thanks for asking imSKR!

We at EMPOWERgmatVerbal don't typically add explanations to sample questions that come from unknown sources (most of the questions we respond to come from reputable GMAT study guides or tutoring sites). I'm guessing that's the case for a lot of experts. Since we don't know where this question came from, or who wrote it, we can't really verify that it's a "good" example.

That being said, I'm still happy to answer your question:

Both "believed: that" and "believed that" are idiomatically correct. HOWEVER, they are not always GRAMMATICALLY correct in every sentence. In this case, using "believed that" in option E creates a run-on sentence. Since the sentence is introducing an idea, it makes more sense grammatically to use "believed: that" here.

We hope that helps! :) :thumbsup:
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EMPOWERgmatVerbal wrote:
Thanks for asking imSKR!

We at EMPOWERgmatVerbal don't typically add explanations to sample questions that come from unknown sources (most of the questions we respond to come from reputable GMAT study guides or tutoring sites). I'm guessing that's the case for a lot of experts. Since we don't know where this question came from, or who wrote it, we can't really verify that it's a "good" example.

That being said, I'm still happy to answer your question:

Both "believed: that" and "believed that" are idiomatically correct. HOWEVER, they are not always GRAMMATICALLY correct in every sentence. In this case, using "believed that" in option E creates a run-on sentence. Since the sentence is introducing an idea, it makes more sense grammatically to use "believed: that" here.

We hope that helps! :) :thumbsup:

I agree with EMPOWERgmatVerbal on the notion that third-party questions can be, well, questionable. I find that many such questions test a specific concept in a manner that is inconsistent with what is on the GMAT™, in which a question might test three or four concepts at once. However, I am quite willing to lend assistance to the community when I can, regardless of the source of a question. If I agree with the OA or OE, I will say so; if not, I will be just as frank. The key to getting better at SC questions is not assuming that you know something, but being willing to learn about a concept or convention that makes you uncomfortable. I think that many times, the community is quick to label a question poor quality for no reason other than that it challenges their preconceived idea of what the answer should be.

Thank you, EMPOWERgmatVerbal, for taking up the charge and offering your own thoughts on the question.

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Re: The planet, a newborn planet still forming around its star and one who [#permalink]
Can somebody explain how is E a run- on sentence?

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Re: The planet, a newborn planet still forming around its star and one who [#permalink]
What is the meaning of using ‘that’ after a colon here?
A sentence after colon is the explanation of the sentence before the colon .
Use of ‘that’ is literally not required here .
I don’t think it can be A , it has to be D

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Kapil1650 wrote:
What is the meaning of using ‘that’ after a colon here?
A sentence after colon is the explanation of the sentence before the colon .
Use of ‘that’ is literally not required here .
I don’t think it can be A , it has to be D

Hi Kapil1650, the usage of that after a colon isn't exactly ungrammatical, though I can't think of GMAT testing you purely on this feature alone.

An officially correct sentence:

Critical-thinking instruction is predicated on two assumptions: that there are clearly identifiable thinking skills that students can be taught to recognize and apply appropriately, and that if students recognize and apply these skills, they will become more effective thinkers.
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Re: The planet, a newborn planet still forming around its star and one who [#permalink]
Thank you EducationAisle
But i am not sure whether questions with Such a minute difference ,if any, should come in GMAT ! :)

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Well, I just wanted to illustrate that test takers should not immediately disregard any option that uses a that after a colon.
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Re: The planet, a newborn planet still forming around its star and one who [#permalink]
Hi all,Thanks to all for your discussion. It really helps us in our learnings.
I have just doubt regarding option E. How is this option run-on sentence?
Thanks in advance.

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wali786 wrote:
Can somebody explain how is E a run- on sentence?

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Ritesh92gmat wrote:
Hi all,Thanks to all for your discussion. It really helps us in our learnings.
I have just doubt regarding option E. How is this option run-on sentence?
Thanks in advance.

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Hello, wali786 and Ritesh92gmat. A run-on sentence occurs most commonly when an independent clause follows a conjunction, but there is no comma before the conjunction. However, the run-on in (E) is of a different nature:

Quote:
The planet, a newborn planet still forming around its star and one whose formation has been imaged, supports what astronomers have long believed that such bodies are born of the disks of gas and dust that coalesce.

The that clause is incorrectly embedded within the what clause instead of defining that what. To be clear, you can say, What astronomers have long believed is that..., but you cannot say, What astronomers have long believed that... Likewise, you could say, Astronomers have long believed that..., without the nominative what clause. Since the what clause in (E), right through the word believed, acts as a direct object, we need for that object to resolve before we start describing it in a namely way, the role that either a colon or an em dash can play in such a sentence. Without that crucial pause, the sentence becomes a run-on. Compare:

1) The what clause as a subject—What I said that he should tell the truth. (Missing verb.)
2) The what clause as an object—His version is different from what I said that he should tell the truth. (Missing pause.)

To refer back to what I said, I am using another clause, only one that begins with a that, and I need to make it clear that that second clause is defining or describing the first.

I hope that helps. This is a tricky question, one that has given me more grief than just about any other (if you look back through the history).

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Re: The planet, a newborn planet still forming around its star and one who [#permalink]
AndrewN - thanks for the explanation in earlier posts. I tripped on with D using the same logic that colon and “that” together were creating a redundancy. Saw a post where you happen to mention an official question that uses the structure as is there in choice A.

Adding this to flash card as we speak!

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