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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
vineetgupta wrote:
Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destruction of a city are excavating in several possible places, including a middle and a lower layer of a large mound. The bottom of the middle layer contains some pieces of pottery of type 3, known to be from a later period than the time of the destruction of the city, but the lower layer does not.

The force of the evidence cited above is most seriously weakened if which of the following is true?
(A) Gerbils, small animals long native to the area, dig large burrows into which objects can fall when the burrows collapse.
(B) Pottery of types 1 and 2, found in the lower level, was used in the cities from which, according to the legend, the besieging forces came.
(C) Several pieces of stone from a lower-layer wall have been found incorporated into the remains of a building in the middle layer.
(D) Both the middle and the lower layer show evidence of large-scale destruction of habitations by fire.
(E) Bronze ax heads of a type used at the time of the siege were found in the lower level of excavation.

Please give reasons for your choices...

linked question:
archaeologists-seeking-the-location-of-a-legendary-siege-and-44157.html


looks like a very tricky question...what do we have to weaken? from the given argument, it might be inferred that the archaeologists are digging on the right site...
all but A actually support this idea, whereas A says that pottery might have gotten in the lower levels by accident.
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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
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The conclusion here is that the middle layer doesnt belong to siege and destroyed city.
Evidence is that there exist type 3 pottery in middle layer.
A says that its possible that these type 3 pottery is among the objects fell in the areas dig by Gerbils. This definitely can weaken the conclusion.
B mentions lower level, so cant weaken the conclusion.
C shows middle and lower layers may be related but doesnt hurt the conclusion. they both could be part of siege city or couldnt.
D says destruction caused by fire but no evidence of siege.
E again mentions lower level, so cant weaken the conclusion.
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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
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vineetgupta wrote:
Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destruction of a city are excavating in several possible places, including a middle and a lower layer of a large mound. The bottom of the middle layer contains some pieces of pottery of type 3, known to be from a later period than the time of the destruction of the city, but the lower layer does not.

The force of the evidence cited above is most seriously weakened if which of the following is true?

(A) Gerbils, small animals long native to the area, dig large burrows into which objects can fall when the burrows collapse.
(B) Pottery of types 1 and 2, found in the lower level, was used in the cities from which, according to the legend, the besieging forces came.
(C) Several pieces of stone from a lower-layer wall have been found incorporated into the remains of a building in the middle layer.
(D) Both the middle and the lower layer show evidence of large-scale destruction of habitations by fire.
(E) Bronze ax heads of a type used at the time of the siege were found in the lower level of excavation.

Please give reasons for your choices...

linked question:
https://gmatclub.com/forum/archaeologist ... 44157.html
Here the conclusion is 'the bottom of the middle layer contains some pieces of pottery of type 3, but the lower layer does not'.

We need to weaken this conclusion, showing that the bottom of the middle layer does not contain some pieces of pottery of type 3 or that the lower layer contains pottery of type 3.

Option A, clearly says that pottery of type 3 is not belong to the middle layer. It is from upper layer. So A is winner.
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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
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We are not provided with a conclusion, so we have to draw one based on the evidence.

Evidence: Bottom of middle layer contains pottery 3. Pottery 3 is made AFTER the destruction.

We can infer that usually the deeper the level = the older the time period. Since as we move forward in time, we generally build up on things. So, the city was probably destroyed around the lower layer, or in the middle layer but beneath where the pottery was found.

Question: What casts doubt on the Type 3 pottery in the middle layer/destruction of city inference?

Prediction: If the pottery was moved around — if the location doesn’t represent the time period accurately.

A – decent choice, shows pottery could’ve been moved
B – doesn’t comment on Type 3 pottery
C – this implies at some point the middle-layer people used the wall below them to build up — but doesn’t show that the pottery could have moved down or up
D – Fire is totally irrelevant
E – “at the time of the siege” is vague — and this doesn’t relate at all to the pottery evidence

The correct answer is (A).
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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destruction of a city are excavating in several possible places, including a middle and a lower layer of a large mound. The bottom of the middle layer contains some pieces of pottery of type 3, known to be from a later period than the time of the destruction of the city, but the lower layer does not.

The force of the evidence cited above is most seriously weakened if which of the following is true?

(A) Gerbils, small animals long native to the area, dig large burrows into which objects can fall when the burrows collapse.

(B) Pottery of types 1 and 2, found in the lower level, was used in the cities from which, according to the legend, the besieging forces came.

(C) Several pieces of stone from a lower-layer wall have been found incorporated into the remains of a building in the middle layer.

(D) Both the middle and the lower layer show evidence of large-scale destruction of habitations by fire.

(E) Bronze ax heads of a type used at the time of the siege were found in the lower level of excavation.

- Firstly, there is no conclusion in this passage and we are asked to weaken an evidence.


AjiteshArun , GMATNinja , MagooshExpert , GMATGuruNY , VeritasKarishma , ChiranjeevSingh , VeritasPrepBrian , MartyMurray other experts - please provide a solution for this question.
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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
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Skywalker18 wrote:
Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destruction of a city are excavating in several possible places, including a middle and a lower layer of a large mound. The bottom of the middle layer contains some pieces of pottery of type 3, known to be from a later period than the time of the destruction of the city, but the lower layer does not.

The force of the evidence cited above is most seriously weakened if which of the following is true?

(A) Gerbils, small animals long native to the area, dig large burrows into which objects can fall when the burrows collapse.

(B) Pottery of types 1 and 2, found in the lower level, was used in the cities from which, according to the legend, the besieging forces came.

(C) Several pieces of stone from a lower-layer wall have been found incorporated into the remains of a building in the middle layer.

(D) Both the middle and the lower layer show evidence of large-scale destruction of habitations by fire.

(E) Bronze ax heads of a type used at the time of the siege were found in the lower level of excavation.

- Firstly, there is no conclusion in this passage and we are asked to weaken an evidence.


AjiteshArun , GMATNinja , MagooshExpert , GMATGuruNY , VeritasKarishma , ChiranjeevSingh , VeritasPrepBrian , MartyMurray other experts - please provide a solution for this question.

Hi Skywalker18,

In my opinion, this is a pretty bad question. You are correct -- no conclusion here is given. It seems that this question was written as a follow-up to a question asking about the conclusion of the argument (which would not happen on the real GMAT). To answer this, we need to first determine the most likely conclusion, which is that the middle layer does not represent the period of the siege. Given that, A is the best answer, since it provides an alternate reason for why pottery from after that period would be seen in the middle layer. But again, in my experience this type of question would not be asked on the GMAT.

Hope that helps!
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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
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Anyone has a opinion on the quality of this question? CR is usually one of my strongest sections but after reading the prompt three times I still could not properly comprehend what is even in question.

It feels like some minor background knowledge could be needed to come up with a proper solution.

Any thoughts?

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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
VeritasPrepHailey mam this question clean bowled me completely....seems like a damn tricky question to me even higher than 700 plus level...I am unable to understand what needs to be weakened and comprehend this one mam...Please explain with POE
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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
This was an odd one. And the answer was so obvious that it seemed wrong.

Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destruction of a city are excavating in several possible places, including a middle and a lower layer of a large mound. The bottom of the middle layer contains some pieces of pottery of type 3, known to be from a later period than the time of the destruction of the city, but the lower layer does not.

The force of the evidence cited above is most seriously weakened if which of the following is true?


(A) Gerbils, small animals long native to the area, dig large burrows into which objects can fall when the burrows collapse.
Correct. The question is, why didn't the pottery of type 3 make it to the lower levels if it was found in the bottom of the middle layer? The fact that gerbils dig large burrows (into which objects can fall) gives us more reason to doubt the fact that the pottery didn't make it there.

(B) Pottery of types 1 and 2, found in the lower level, was used in the cities from which, according to the legend, the besieging forces came.
We care about pottery of type 3.

(C) Several pieces of stone from a lower-layer wall have been found incorporated into the remains of a building in the middle layer.
Trap choice, uses the wording 'lower' and 'middle' to tease us into thinking it's the answer. But look closely, we have a piece of stone from a lower-layer wall were incorporated into the middle layer of the remains of a building. This does nothing for us in terms of doubting why objects did not make it to the bottom layer.

(D) Both the middle and the lower layer show evidence of large-scale destruction of habitations by fire.
Irrelevant.

(E) Bronze ax heads of a type used at the time of the siege were found in the lower level of excavation.
OK, irrelevant.
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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
In reply to the Magoosh expert above who says that this question is "bad" and wouldn't show up on the GMAT, and adds that GMATs don't use two questions with one stimulus, I would suggest that the Magoosh expert go dig into old paper tests, which is where this question, and its fraternal twin, were taken from! Fun fact: on old GMAT paper tests, sometimes there were two questions written based on one stimulus. This is, in fact, a real GMAT question. It's just very, very old. Very very very very old. But it was in the same test as questions that I've seen in later OG books.

It doesn't have a conclusion but the question stem doesn't ask to strengthen the argument. The stem says "The force of the evidence would be weakened if...." which is a distinct stem from the usual weakener.

Also, the other question, which the OP called a strengthener, is an inference, not a strengthener.
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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
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Pre thinking - Since the artifacts are found in the bottom of middle layer but not in lower layer so chances are that these were brought there.

A - In line with pre-thinking

B - Out of scope

C - Strong contender but I went with A.

D and E - Out of scope
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Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
KarishmaB wrote:
vineetgupta wrote:
Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destruction of a city are excavating in several possible places, including a middle and a lower layer of a large mound. The bottom of the middle layer contains some pieces of pottery of type 3, known to be from a later period than the time of the destruction of the city, but the lower layer does not.

The force of the evidence cited above is most seriously weakened if which of the following is true?


(A) Gerbils, small animals long native to the area, dig large burrows into which objects can fall when the burrows collapse.

(B) Pottery of types 1 and 2, found in the lower level, was used in the cities from which, according to the legend, the besieging forces came.

(C) Several pieces of stone from a lower-layer wall have been found incorporated into the remains of a building in the middle layer.

(D) Both the middle and the lower layer show evidence of large-scale destruction of habitations by fire.

(E) Bronze ax heads of a type used at the time of the siege were found in the lower level of excavation.


Same stem Strengthen question: https://gmatclub.com/forum/archaeologis ... 44157.html

 



"Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destruction of a city are excavating in several possible places, including a middle and a lower layer of a large mound."

They are excavating the middle and lower layers of a mound. No mention is made of the upper layer but we can assume there must be one since there is a "middle" layer. Depending on where they find the remains, they can find the location of siege and destruction.


"The bottom of the middle layer contains some pieces of pottery of type 3, known to be from a later period than the time of the destruction of the city, but the lower layer does not."

So the bottom of the middle layer has stuff from the later period (after the siege and destruction). One would naturally assume that the siege must have happened at the time of the lower layer then and the middle layer must have formed after the destruction. That is why the middle layer contains artefacts from the later period. Hence, destruction may not have happened at the time of the middle layer.

Before we move on to the options, note why excavating layers can tell us when the destruction took place. The mound would have formed over centuries. The lower layer would contain remains of life and other elements which were present during that time. Over time, dirt would settle and higher layers would contain remains from a later period. so the lower you dig, the more you can find about how life was in the older days.

Now let's go on to the options. We need one that weakens the force of the evidence i.e. that tells us that the destruction may not have happened in the lower layer or may have happened in the middle layer.

(A) Gerbils, small animals long native to the area, dig large burrows into which objects can fall when the burrows collapse.
This brings into question the period in which the siege happened. It is possible that the siege happened in the middle layer and the artefact was in the upper layer but a gerbil dropped it in the bottom of the middle layer. Then the period of the siege cannot be guessed. So the force of the given evidence is weakened.

(B) Pottery of types 1 and 2, found in the lower level, was used in the cities from which, according to the legend, the besieging forces came.
This fortifies the idea that the siege took place at the time of the lower level. We need to weaken the evidence but this in fact strengthens it somewhat.

(C) Several pieces of stone from a lower-layer wall have been found incorporated into the remains of a building in the middle layer.
Stones of lower layer have been found in middle layer. This doesn't impact our siege/destruction timeline as such. Did the siege take place at the time of the lower layer and the wall was damaged in it? How did the stones reach the middle layer. Too nebulous.

(D) Both the middle and the lower layer show evidence of large-scale destruction of habitations by fire.
Two layers show evidence of destruction by fire. The time of the destruction is not clear then.

(E) Bronze ax heads of a type used at the time of the siege were found in the lower level of excavation.
This fortifies the idea that the siege took place at the time of the lower layer. We need to weaken the evidence but this in fact strengthens it somewhat.

Answer (A)


Hi KarishmaB,
Quote:
(A) Gerbils, small animals long native to the area, dig large burrows into which objects can fall when the burrows collapse.
This brings into question the period in which the siege happened. It is possible that the siege happened in the middle layer and the artefact was in the upper layer but a gerbil dropped it in the bottom of the middle layer. Then the period of the siege cannot be guessed. So the force of the given evidence is weakened.

About your explanation of A, why are you concerned with "the period of the siege"? The first line of the passage states "Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege". It is about the LOCATION, the PERIOD. Your explanation makes sense wrt PERIOD, but I have no idea how the mound layer has anything to do with location (assuming layers form on top of each other, the location is the same for each layer).­
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Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
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Saupayan wrote:
KarishmaB wrote:
vineetgupta wrote:
Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destruction of a city are excavating in several possible places, including a middle and a lower layer of a large mound. The bottom of the middle layer contains some pieces of pottery of type 3, known to be from a later period than the time of the destruction of the city, but the lower layer does not.

The force of the evidence cited above is most seriously weakened if which of the following is true?


(A) Gerbils, small animals long native to the area, dig large burrows into which objects can fall when the burrows collapse.

(B) Pottery of types 1 and 2, found in the lower level, was used in the cities from which, according to the legend, the besieging forces came.

(C) Several pieces of stone from a lower-layer wall have been found incorporated into the remains of a building in the middle layer.

(D) Both the middle and the lower layer show evidence of large-scale destruction of habitations by fire.

(E) Bronze ax heads of a type used at the time of the siege were found in the lower level of excavation.


Same stem Strengthen question: https://gmatclub.com/forum/archaeologis ... 44157.html
 



"Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destruction of a city are excavating in several possible places, including a middle and a lower layer of a large mound."

They are excavating the middle and lower layers of a mound. No mention is made of the upper layer but we can assume there must be one since there is a "middle" layer. Depending on where they find the remains, they can find the location of siege and destruction.


"The bottom of the middle layer contains some pieces of pottery of type 3, known to be from a later period than the time of the destruction of the city, but the lower layer does not."

So the bottom of the middle layer has stuff from the later period (after the siege and destruction). One would naturally assume that the siege must have happened at the time of the lower layer then and the middle layer must have formed after the destruction. That is why the middle layer contains artefacts from the later period. Hence, destruction may not have happened at the time of the middle layer.

Before we move on to the options, note why excavating layers can tell us when the destruction took place. The mound would have formed over centuries. The lower layer would contain remains of life and other elements which were present during that time. Over time, dirt would settle and higher layers would contain remains from a later period. so the lower you dig, the more you can find about how life was in the older days.

Now let's go on to the options. We need one that weakens the force of the evidence i.e. that tells us that the destruction may not have happened in the lower layer or may have happened in the middle layer.

(A) Gerbils, small animals long native to the area, dig large burrows into which objects can fall when the burrows collapse.
This brings into question the period in which the siege happened. It is possible that the siege happened in the middle layer and the artefact was in the upper layer but a gerbil dropped it in the bottom of the middle layer. Then the period of the siege cannot be guessed. So the force of the given evidence is weakened.

(B) Pottery of types 1 and 2, found in the lower level, was used in the cities from which, according to the legend, the besieging forces came.
This fortifies the idea that the siege took place at the time of the lower level. We need to weaken the evidence but this in fact strengthens it somewhat.

(C) Several pieces of stone from a lower-layer wall have been found incorporated into the remains of a building in the middle layer.
Stones of lower layer have been found in middle layer. This doesn't impact our siege/destruction timeline as such. Did the siege take place at the time of the lower layer and the wall was damaged in it? How did the stones reach the middle layer. Too nebulous.

(D) Both the middle and the lower layer show evidence of large-scale destruction of habitations by fire.
Two layers show evidence of destruction by fire. The time of the destruction is not clear then.

(E) Bronze ax heads of a type used at the time of the siege were found in the lower level of excavation.
This fortifies the idea that the siege took place at the time of the lower layer. We need to weaken the evidence but this in fact strengthens it somewhat.

Answer (A)


Hi KarishmaB,
Quote:
(A) Gerbils, small animals long native to the area, dig large burrows into which objects can fall when the burrows collapse.
This brings into question the period in which the siege happened. It is possible that the siege happened in the middle layer and the artefact was in the upper layer but a gerbil dropped it in the bottom of the middle layer. Then the period of the siege cannot be guessed. So the force of the given evidence is weakened.

About your explanation of A, why are you concerned with "the period of the siege"? The first line of the passage states "Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege". It is about the LOCATION, the PERIOD. Your explanation makes sense wrt PERIOD, but I have no idea how the mound layer has anything to do with location (assuming layers form on top of each other, the location is the same for each layer).


The question stem asks us to weaken the force of the evidence.
The evidence gives us the period of the destruction, not its location. So to weaken the force of the evidence, we need to weaken that destruction happened at the time of the lower layer.
We need to focus on what exactly the question stem asks. The argument could give us extraneous information.

Posted from my mobile device­
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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
[/quote]

The question stem asks us to weaken the force of the evidence.
The evidence gives us the period of the destruction, not its location. So to weaken the force of the evidence, we need to weaken that destruction happened at the time of the lower layer.
We need to focus on what exactly the question stem asks. The argument could give us extraneous information.
[/quote]
KarishmaB

I feel like this is going into "spam" territory at this point, so I will try to keep this as short as I can. First of all, thanks a lot for your clarification. Just to confirm I understand it right, I am going to state the 2 inferences I drew from what you said. Please correct me if I am wrong.
1. Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege... has NO BEARING on this question whatsoever.
1a. The reasoning and the answer will be exactly the same even if the entire first line is taken away and the question stem began with "Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destruction of a city are excavating in several possible places..."
2. force of the evidence cited above is most seriously weakened...
2a. we do not get to assume that just because scientists were looking for location, the "evidence" must somehow be connected to the location.
2b. Moreover, the passage DOES NOT mention what it is evidence for.
2c. So, we need to assume (based on common sense) that it is an assumption for the time period because that's how layers of dust build up over time.

Are these correct?
Thanks so much again for your time
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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
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Saupayan wrote:

The question stem asks us to weaken the force of the evidence.
The evidence gives us the period of the destruction, not its location. So to weaken the force of the evidence, we need to weaken that destruction happened at the time of the lower layer.
We need to focus on what exactly the question stem asks. The argument could give us extraneous information.

KarishmaB

I feel like this is going into "spam" territory at this point, so I will try to keep this as short as I can. First of all, thanks a lot for your clarification. Just to confirm I understand it right, I am going to state the 2 inferences I drew from what you said. Please correct me if I am wrong.
1. Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege... has NO BEARING on this question whatsoever.
1a. The reasoning and the answer will be exactly the same even if the entire first line is taken away and the question stem began with "Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destruction of a city are excavating in several possible places..."
2. force of the evidence cited above is most seriously weakened...
2a. we do not get to assume that just because scientists were looking for location, the "evidence" must somehow be connected to the location.
2b. Moreover, the passage DOES NOT mention what it is evidence for.
2c. So, we need to assume (based on common sense) that it is an assumption for the time period because that's how layers of dust build up over time.

Are these correct?
Thanks so much again for your time


No, your questions are not in spam territory. They are genuine.

Here is the thing - the argument will set a context. It has to tell you that the archaeologists are digging looking for certain information. They are looking for the location of the destruction. That is why they are digging the mound. So the first statement serves a purpose - it sets a context on why they are digging in the first place.

In the process, they discovered some objects.
The "evidence" tells you that some objects of a time after the destruction were found in lower middle layer while they were digging but were not found in the lower layer. So what can you INFER from this (not assume)? That perhaps the destruction took place at the time before the lower middle layer was formed. You cannot infer anything about the location of the destruction but you can about the time period.

The question stem asks us to weaken the force of this evidence. Then what will we weaken? Whatever this evidence tells us. We are not given anything about finding any objects from the city that was destroyed and hence we have no info on the location of the destruction. We focus on what the question asks us.

Option (A) clearly weakens the force of evidence and hence is the answer.
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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
Option (A) weakens the argument by providing an alternative explanation for the presence of pottery type 3 in the middle layer. Gerbils digging burrows and causing objects to fall into different layers could indeed account for the presence of pottery type 3 in the middle layer. This undermines the argument's reliance on the pottery evidence to determine the timing of the destruction.
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Re: Archaeologists seeking the location of a legendary siege and destructi [#permalink]
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