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Great advise hobbit.

An additional trick that I often use is that after I solve a problem I would try to verify it with a different method, or just see if it makes intuitive sense. When you practise it will help if you could try to come up with more than one solutions.
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ggarr wrote:
Hobbit,

Are Venn Diagrams, Comb/Perms, Standard Deviation and Sequences generally advanced concepts? Aren't there some "simpler" Comb/Perms probs that wouldn't classify as advanced?

Thanks for taking the time to write this.


Venn diagrams raises a need to differentiate tools and tested concepts.... as a tested concept it is certainly advanced one... i'd bet that very few, if any, gmat question really requires the notion of venn diagrams. However (!!!), venn diagram is a strong visualization tool that can help you solving some questions. those question will most probably have another possible approach that wouldn't require it, but some people might find using those diagrams simple.... thus, for those who find those diagrams simple to use - it is not an advanced concept/tool.

Comb/Perm concepts can be tested in many different levels and areas. the basics of Comb/Perm is a must, but only the basics.... the problem with this area is that people (with the encouragement of prep books), tend to overuse formulas and patterns than simple, common sense and cautious counting following the basic principles. also - in order to "practice" their comb/perm skills, people tend to try solving too difficult questions that aren't likely to appear in gmat. not only this makes them feel bad, reducing their confidence, but also shift their focus from required skills for gmat to the required skills of 1st year college course in discrete mathematics.... while this is definitely an interesting course, i fear not many of you would take it willingly and enjoy it like i did.

standard deviation is definitely an advanced concept, rarely asked in gmat. i'd think it is sufficient to know what it is conceptually. no formulas for me (i don't remember them either - and could solve all questions about them here in the forum and on gmat without it).
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ggarr wrote:
Hobbit,

Are Venn Diagrams, Comb/Perms, Standard Deviation and Sequences generally advanced concepts? Aren't there some "simpler" Comb/Perms probs that wouldn't classify as advanced?

Thanks for taking the time to write this.


I would be very cautious to classify concept x is more complex than concept y. In GMAT world, all the tested concepts carry equal weight. The difference comes from the twists and tricks that are intrensic to each question. I disgree with hobbit who said that Standard Deviation is considered advanced concept. Those who did lot of pracitce would realize that SD is tested in both easy and tough questions.
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I concur with hobbit that you may not need Venn Diagram to answer the questions. Also you don't need to know how to calculate std dev but you'll need to know the concept. The concepts of mean, median, range and std dev are often tested together. Just remember that knowing one or a few of these measures may not tell you anything about the others. For example, same mean and a higher range may or may not indicate a bigger std dev.
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I agree with Honghu. Mean median and range are mostly tested together, usually in data sufficiency,


i also think sequences (spotting the pattern, adding last two digits) would qualify more as easy questions..
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Could someone provide specific questions to give us an idea what the questions in the Quant 45+ bin look like and a list of strategies we need to learn to solve these correctly and quickly? Thanks for the thread, it's very illuminating.
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focused07 wrote:
Could someone provide specific questions to give us an idea what the questions in the Quant 45+ bin look like and a list of strategies we need to learn to solve these correctly and quickly? Thanks for the thread, it's very illuminating.


there is no such thing as 45+ bin question (it is just a simplification used by prep books).

a difficult question is not limited to a certain subject, even the simplest and most straight forward issues can be a source of a difficult question.
for example the answer choices may make the question difficult or easy.
consider this:
which of the following solves the equation x^4-3x^3+2x^2-5x-3=0

a) 1.5
b) 2
c) 2.5
d) 3
e) 3.5


or

a) -6
b) -3
c) 0
d) 3
e) 6

i'm sure you'd prefer solving the question for answer set no. 2 since you can easily rule out 3 options with no calculations.
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how is the problem on the bottom solved without calculation?

hobbit wrote:
focused07 wrote:
Could someone provide specific questions to give us an idea what the questions in the Quant 45+ bin look like and a list of strategies we need to learn to solve these correctly and quickly? Thanks for the thread, it's very illuminating.


there is no such thing as 45+ bin question (it is just a simplification used by prep books).

a difficult question is not limited to a certain subject, even the simplest and most straight forward issues can be a source of a difficult question.
for example the answer choices may make the question difficult or easy.
consider this:
which of the following solves the equation x^4-3x^3+2x^2-5x-3=0

a) 1.5
b) 2
c) 2.5
d) 3
e) 3.5


or

a) -6
b) -3
c) 0
d) 3
e) 6

i'm sure you'd prefer solving the question for answer set no. 2 since you can easily rule out 3 options with no calculations.
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jamielz wrote:
how is the problem on the bottom solved without calculation?



x^4-3x^3+2x^2-5x-3=0
x(x^3-3x^2+2x-5)=3

one of the roots is 3, we don't care about others
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I'm not sure we can say one of the roots is 3 if we have x(f(x))=3. The only option I would be able to eliminate would be x=0, since 0 times anything would not be 3. However to sort throught the rest 4 options, I'd still have to break the expression down to x^3(x-3)+2x(x-3)-(x-3)=0.
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kpoxa wrote:
jamielz wrote:
how is the problem on the bottom solved without calculation?



x^4-3x^3+2x^2-5x-3=0
x(x^3-3x^2+2x-5)=3

one of the roots is 3, we don't care about others


in fact, the above two representations do the trick!!!
with the first one, you can quickly rule out 0,-3 and -6
0 is simple...
-3, and -6 are ruled out because they are negative... and as a result -every term in the equation, except -3 at the end is positive, and rather large... so their sum can not be 0

the second representation is also helpful... if x*y=3 and both x and y are integers.... it must be that one of them is 3 and the other is 1.
therefore, x=6 cannot be the answer. and x=3 is the last option - which is the answer.

note that this is all true if the possible answers are integers... with the first set of choices - you cannot simply rule out 2.5 as a possible answer - therefore choice set 1 makes the question more difficult than choice set 2.
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Good point. If we limit the solution set of x(f(x))=3 to integers, it is true that x must be 1,3 -1 or -3.
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set 1 - obviously easier [#permalink]
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in set 1 there is a split: 3-2
3 answers include .5
2 answers are integers

it is obvious that .5 in the power 4 will led us to the 4th digit after decimal point while all other member of equation (x^3, x^2, 5x) - WONT. So answers with .5 - are not solutions for equation
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to my mind, it is easier than it seems...
among the sets of roots the first one is correct...

3 (as a 'free member' of the equation, is not multiplied by x) MUST be DIVISIBLE by the real roots of the equation!

3 does not divide by 0!
Eliminate second choice...
Moreover, 0 is not the root!
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Generally the answer to this types of questions that you need to replace values are the choices D or E. Its because they want you to spend time trying all the posibilities. :wink:


jamielz wrote:
how is the problem on the bottom solved without calculation?

hobbit wrote:
focused07 wrote:
Could someone provide specific questions to give us an idea what the questions in the Quant 45+ bin look like and a list of strategies we need to learn to solve these correctly and quickly? Thanks for the thread, it's very illuminating.


there is no such thing as 45+ bin question (it is just a simplification used by prep books).

a difficult question is not limited to a certain subject, even the simplest and most straight forward issues can be a source of a difficult question.
for example the answer choices may make the question difficult or easy.
consider this:
which of the following solves the equation x^4-3x^3+2x^2-5x-3=0

a) 1.5
b) 2
c) 2.5
d) 3
e) 3.5


or

a) -6
b) -3
c) 0
d) 3
e) 6

i'm sure you'd prefer solving the question for answer set no. 2 since you can easily rule out 3 options with no calculations.
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Re: improving your quant from 44-46 to 50+ [#permalink]
I would prefer to use plugging in on these questions
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Re: improving your quant from 44-46 to 50+ [#permalink]
Good advise. I am making too many silly mistakes.
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