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B-Failure!

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smudge
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B-Failure! [#permalink] New post   28 Mar 2007, 20:57
So, I've been denied at all three schools (NYU, Chi, and Col) that I applied to. I interviewed at all the schools, so I think my applications were decent if not spectacular. I will ask for deny feedback if its available. However, as most schools don't offer deny feedback until the summer months, I think its best to start improving my application in case I decide to purse and MBA next year.

I'm trying to figure out what went wrong with my apps. I believe my essays were very good, I have a decent GPA and GMAT (3.4/760). I'm somewhat young @ 24, and I don't have a lot of extracurriculars, but I don't think that should affect me too negatively. I can only assume that I bombed all three of the interviews. The interviews didn't feel terribly bad at the time, but I guess I didn't do much to impress. But I do feel that my communication skills could be greatly improved. Anyone have any suggestions on how to improve communication skills? A few people have suggested Toastmasters to me. I've looked through there website, and it seems to mostly teach public speaking. While that is a great skill to have, I don't know how useful it will be in an interview. To me, public speaking is all about delivery, with the material being prepared ahead of time. In the dynamic atmosphere of an interview, I find myself lacking material, ie, I struggle with "what to say" rather than "how to say it". Do you think Toastmasters would help anyway?

I'm also trying to figure out what I should do with my career. Currently, I'm employed in the financial industry as a software developer. I wanted to purse an MBA to transition to a financial role, specifically, some kind of trading. Should I attempt to make this transition by myself, or should I try to focus on enhancing my current career? I was thinking I would try to find a new position, and if successful, I would go for a part-time MBA, otherwise, I would re-apply to full-time programs.

Any suggestion or advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Re: B-Failure! [#permalink] New post   28 Mar 2007, 21:32
smudge wrote:
In the dynamic atmosphere of an interview, I find myself lacking material, ie, I struggle with "what to say" rather than "how to say it". Do you think Toastmasters would help anyway?



If the problem in an interview is the lack of material to speak of, then IMO it seems lack of preparedness. Like every other data point in the applications, interviews also need ample amount of preparation. Another thing that comes to my mind is that you are young and may be with less years of experience hence don't have some compelling stories to tell from your workplace.

There are many different ways to prepare for an interview. I personally took out a list of all the possible questions and prepared my response to it. Obviously you don't memorize all the answers but having a structure to possible questions gives you the room to play around with your responses.

Another method I liked most (used by a fellow GMATClubber), was to record his responses on a CD and listen to it when free. Rhyme can explain better if you are more interested.
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[#permalink] New post   28 Mar 2007, 21:33
I somehow doubt it was the interview. Unless you truly bungled it and said something completely insane. Interviews are just data points - usually not that major because its a second year student conducting most of the stuff - and some schools, including Chicago, actually come out and say that the interview is "rarely make or break."

In other words, its probably something else. You said you worked in IT but want to move to some kind of trading. Were you this vague in your essays? Were you passionate? Were you absolutely specific as to why school X? And I mean truly specific, referencing key items by name not just generic poop flinging statements like "world famous faculty" or "diverse students". Age may have played a factor. Have you had enough experiences to write good leadership essays or were your examples a little contrived?

Moreover, if you dont have stuff to talk about in an interview, then I'd question how well you prepared, and more importantly, since the questions are often mirror images of your essays, how strong your essays really were. Interviews should be easy - other than for nerves -- because by then, you've gone through the "why gsb" thing 10,000 times in your head and edited 200 versions of it in your essays. Drawing a blank shouldn't be happening..

And there's always the plumb crappy reality that, sometimes, there is no reason. It's subjective and somewhat random, and the dealer flopped a high card three times.
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[#permalink] New post   Updated on: 29 Mar 2007, 07:49
Not to kick a dog while it's down, but perhaps you are still a little too inexperienced to make the cut for schools in the elite tier. On paper, based on the limited stats you gave, you seem like a solid candidate, but with only two years of professional work experience under your belt it's difficult to imagine an ultra competitive school making you an offer, especially given the fact that application numbers were exceedingly high this year.

One question, why didn't you consider a back-up school?

The flip side is that you now have a full year to position yourself as a strong reapplicant at still a relatively young age. If I were you, I would probably focus on public speaking practice in a community service context, possibly as a voluntary high school tutor for disadvantaged students. Learning to project your voice is essential to succeeding at this game, and it extends well beyond the b-school interview.

Best of luck to you with your '08 applications. Surely you will make the shortlist the second time around.

Originally posted by GMATT73 on 29 Mar 2007, 07:18.
Last edited by GMATT73 on 29 Mar 2007, 07:49, edited 1 time in total.
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[#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2007, 07:41
smudge,

When you reapply, aim higher! seriously.

Focus on leadership roles at your XA and work. The key is to show some substance telling top schools that you have what it takes to become a leader.
You are only 24 years old. I wish I had thought about MBA at that age. Since you have a very strong GMAT score, you can fous your energy on other aspects of your application. If I were you, I would take some biz courses such as finance or accounting to show schools that you are darn serious about your plan of career switch and pursuing the MBA.

I wouldn't be surprised if you get into Wharton next year or two years later.

Remember that you are ahead of many others including me since you are only 24yrs old.
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[#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2007, 08:01
I agree with Rhyme (just kinda skimmed his long @ss post, but can't go wrong agreeing with him anyway).

Basically, I think you are just missing the 'passion for mba' and a clear set of goals. Saying that you want to do "some kind of trading" is not going to cut it. You need to say things like "I became friends at work with this IB guy, and he tells me about the multi $billion M&A deals he works on and that is what excites me", etc.

As a career switcher, you need to sound like you made some effort to research the field you want and have done your home work. Show that you will actually like finance more than IT and why. You need to convince them that you have really thought it through, and you have a vague plan to succeed. Say things like "coming from IT, I am good with numbers and modelling complex theories... I can put these skills to use in equities research" or "I am a master at the E".. "I can stare at a monitor for 25hrs a day and I am impervious to carpel tunnels" :wink:

Anyway, you get my point.
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[#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2007, 08:04
fluffydot wrote:
I can put these skills to use in equities research" or "I am a master at the E".. "I can stare at a monitor for 25hrs a day and I am impervious to carpel tunnels" :wink:

Anyway, you get my point.


LOL, nice.
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[#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2007, 14:43
GMATT73 wrote:
Not to kick a dog while it's down, but perhaps you are still a little too inexperienced to make the cut for schools in the elite tier. On paper, based on the limited stats you gave, you seem like a solid candidate, but with only two years of professional work experience under your belt it's difficult to imagine an ultra competitive school making you an offer, especially given the fact that application numbers were exceedingly high this year.

One question, why didn't you consider a back-up school?


I actually have 4 years of experience since I finished my undergrad when I was 20...

I decided not to apply to a back up school, since I wasn't interested in attending one. Actually, I had already decided not to attend NYU before I got the decision. I think my current job is probably one of the best available in my current profession, I wasn't prepared to give it up for a back-up school. As it stands, I will almost certainly have to take a pay-cut no matter which school I go to, that's tough enough to swallow.

I looked back at my essays, I guess I should have been more specific with what I want to do. I'll try to be more specific next year.
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[#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2007, 14:47
rhyme wrote:
Have you had enough experiences to write good leadership essays or were your examples a little contrived?


What do you mean by leadership essays? I'm not in a leadership position. As such, I didn't really write about that.
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[#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2007, 15:02
Quote:
"I am a master at the E"..


My new favourite phrase.
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[#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2007, 15:03
smudge wrote:
rhyme wrote:
Have you had enough experiences to write good leadership essays or were your examples a little contrived?


What do you mean by leadership essays? I'm not in a leadership position. As such, I didn't really write about that.


I do believe we just figured out why you didn't get in.

I mean demonstrating that you are a leader, you inspire others and identify opportunities, you bring together communities and you break down barriers, you vision things others dont see and you scale mountains with your grandoise plans. You neutralize weaknesses, identify problems early on, adjust quickly and dynamically, rapidly change your position based on the needs of the firm, align goals with needs, bond teams together and redefine sucess everywhere you go, all while you skyrocket to the upper echelons of the stratosphere.

I'm being a bit vague I suppose, but thats basically what I mean. Schools want leaders. People who define the future, not follow it.
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[#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2007, 15:16
thanks, that helps.
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[#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2007, 17:20
smudge wrote:
thanks, that helps.


Were you being serious, or joking, cause I know its a bit vague.
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[#permalink] New post   29 Mar 2007, 20:37
rhyme wrote:
smudge wrote:
thanks, that helps.


Were you being serious, or joking, cause I know its a bit vague.


Hah, I was being serious. I think I have an idea where my essays were lacking. Thanks.
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You can do it [#permalink] New post   30 Mar 2007, 04:36
Smudge,

I think your profile looks good. The ding could be due to lack of experience or lack of impressive communication in the interview. As Rhyme mentioned, the second reason is least probable but nothing wrong in improving your communication skills. Since you are only 24, I would say you gain 2 more years of work experience and try to show some career progress and experience and that will definitely help. As far as your question regarding Toastmasters goes, I would strongly recommend Toastmasters. I have been a member of a Toastmasters club for the past 4 months. It is an amazing experience. It is not about just gaining public speaking skills. Your interviewing skills will improve too. They have practice sessions to do impromptu speeches which is more like interviewing where you need to think and answer questions spontaneously. This is a skill which will really help in interviewing. Also, Toastmasters will help you in self-realization. While preparing for public speaking, you will understand your strengths and weaknesses, which I think will better align you towards your goals. I got admitted to Chicago GSB's part-time program and I feel that Toastmasters really helped me in my interview. I just wanted to share my experience. Good luck.
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Re: You can do it [#permalink] New post   30 Mar 2007, 05:58
yessuresh wrote:
Smudge,

I think your profile looks good. The ding could be due to lack of experience or lack of impressive communication in the interview. As Rhyme mentioned, the second reason is least probable but nothing wrong in improving your communication skills. Since you are only 24, I would say you gain 2 more years of work experience and try to show some career progress and experience and that will definitely help. As far as your question regarding Toastmasters goes, I would strongly recommend Toastmasters. I have been a member of a Toastmasters club for the past 4 months. It is an amazing experience. It is not about just gaining public speaking skills. Your interviewing skills will improve too. They have practice sessions to do impromptu speeches which is more like interviewing where you need to think and answer questions spontaneously. This is a skill which will really help in interviewing. Also, Toastmasters will help you in self-realization. While preparing for public speaking, you will understand your strengths and weaknesses, which I think will better align you towards your goals. I got admitted to Chicago GSB's part-time program and I feel that Toastmasters really helped me in my interview. I just wanted to share my experience. Good luck.


Are you enrolled, how you liking it?
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Re: You can do it [#permalink]
30 Mar 2007, 05:58

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