Calling all Darden Fall 2009 applicants!

Only 3 applicants so far? Wow is Darden the ugly stepchild of the Elite or what!

It has arguably the best looking campus, so I don't know how that's possible!

It's our show solaris, you and me representin'. Others, you are welcome to join us.


Edit: Sorry I missed raabenb in there. Three musketeers leading the pack!

yeah, dudes. Either of you planning to visit C-ville during one of the Open Houses?

Not in the plans. I'll be out there if they invite me for an interview, though.

Im planning on driving down...whether with an organized school visit or solo campus stalking, havent decided

P.S. In high school I took some summer classes at UVA through a special program and let me tell you, the campus is amazing and C-ville is charminggggggggg (said in a manly man voice).

I am very much interested in Darden because of the case study method. I am not a good communicator in spoken english and Darden will complemet my existing skills by forcing me to speak out.

But I heard Darden is (in)famous for loading students with too much work. So, I am afraid, since I have a family , I wonder, whether brutal Darden schedule will leave me with some respite to spend some time with them?

I haven't had a chance to get in contact with any students yet, but I would suggest that you do so, in particular 1Y students and those taking courses in the area(s) that you are interested in. Also reach out to somebody in the DPA to find out how they are getting by:

https://web2.darden.virginia.edu/student ... d=48&id=78

And by the way, the case method will definitely enhance your public speaking skills and analytical abilities regardless of whether you are a native English speaker or not. Given the career track that I want to take, standing up for my opinions and backing them with cold hard facts in a concise manner will be important. Darden will definitely lay the foundation to help me with that. That's one main reason that I am applying.

Hi Ppl,
Count in for applying to Darden in early round (that s what Round 1 is called)
i have a number of friends who are currently studying in Darden and they all keep telling me the same thing and i quote
"You ve got to come here and attend a case study based class and u ll be sold on Darden"

i m going to fight the GMAT beast on the 28th...so let us see how the first step goes

UVA undergrad here, planning on applying, hopefully R1, maybe R2 depending on how the applications go.

You guys will love Charlottesville.

I thought I'd comment on Darden's reputation for hard work. Like everyone else, I only attend one business school, so any comparisons to other schools are based on 2nd hand information from friends, conferences with other students and other general information. As far as I can tell, students at Darden to not work any harder than those at many other top business schools. When I listen to the experiences of students at other schools, I find them very similar to my own last year at Darden. MBA students definitely work hard, and recruiting demands can be a challenge, especially for the industries popular with MBAs where firms like to visit multiple times throughout the year.

For example, Darden sometimes has clases and activities on some Fridays, but many of these are simulations or group projects, and about 1/2 the time Fridays are reading days (days off). I spoke with a guy from NYU during internship orientation earlier this summer and it seemed like they had classes much mroe frequently on Fridays, but what really stuck me was how demanding their recruiting schedule was. Certainly, having all the job opportunities of NY at your doorstep is a great thing, but along with that comes the expectation that you'll be spending every free moment schmoozing with these firms (I'm talking about banking in this case).

I really don't think that Darden is measuably more demanding that most other programs. I believe that Wharton, MIT, Chicago, Harvard and many others require similar levels of dedication. Still, it seems like people with families have enough time to get everything done. Darden's reputation for hard work seems to be more historical in basis. When alumni came back to campus for recruiting events, we would hear about how they had classes on Saturdays (it's been at least 15 years since they had this), and how they had three cases to prepare every day (no longer the case, we now have 2 or 3 cases four days per week, on average). Generally, I think these requirements are in line with other top schools. One difference is that the case study method means that you will need to be prepared for class each day, so you can't really slack off. The flip side is that the case study method really ensures that you think about a case and learn rather than memorize - as Dean Bruner likes to say it is a sticky form of learning. For people with backgrounds that require critical thinking, this comes naturally (no surpise that law schools use case method, AKA Socratic method); people with backgrounds in more rigid disciplines may need to adjust.

I will say that Darden does maintain a reputation among recruiters for having hard-working students. This is an advantage when competing for jobs, and I think this is reflected in the salary numbers among comparable schools. Darden is always a leader in salaries among elite schools - generally second to only Tuck if I recall correctly. This is especialy impressive when you consider that the Mid-Atlantic is not a particularly high paying region compared with the locales of many of the other elite schools. In fact, Darden beats most fellow elites in both employment rate and salary - which means that Darden students are landing the choiciest jobs, and not settling at the expense of lower salaries. Here are the schools I think Darden competes with most directly:

Darden 87.9% $121,279
Ross 86.1% $120,408
Yale 77.4% $118,964
Cornell 87.1% $118,888
Duke 80.5% $117,473
Haas 82.5% $116,263
UCLA 79.0% $115,318

And if you look at the other school in the region, Darden trounces Duke by a pretty wide margin even though the two schools attract largely the same set of recruiters. I believe this is a reflection of the reputation that Darden has with recruiters. You shouldn't look at it as just a few thousand dollars difference between each of the schools, but rather that the higher salaries and employment rates reflect a larger portion of students landing the jobs that they want without compramise.

So, I hope that the reputation for hard work doesn't keep people from taking a closer look at Darden. I think that the notion that Darden students work harder than others is more of an anachronism than a reality these days; but reputation seems to hold true with employers as well and translates directly into better employment prospects for Darden students compared to those at peer schools. And I'll also point out that Darden's reputation for a tough first year (true or not) comes with a corresponding reputation for a pressure-free second year. I'll definitely be trying to outdo the students from the most recently graduated class in the amount of golf I will play next year (about $400 per semester for an unlimited pass).

Great information pelihu, +1 kudos. Three questions for you:

1) Is your kudos/total posts ratio the highest on the forum? I think it's around 10%, outstanding.
2) Did you have previous IB experience before landing the LA banking gig? I'd like to go West coast post-MBA and was curious how good Darden's placement is on the west coast (both internship and full time).
3) Duke is known to generally place MC people in the local region. For example, McK hires out of Fuqua for their Atlanta office. Is MC placement out of Darden generally nationwide?

thanks

Thanks for the compliment. Don't know about the kudos ratio, but I will add one tidbit to chew on; kudos started sometime within the last year (don't remember exactly when) but they were not part of the site for my first 1000-1500 posts. Now to the other questions.

I didn't have banking experience before attending Darden. Immediately before business school I was an entrepreneur. I started my own business and ran it for about 4 1/2 years. Before that, I got a law degree from Michigan and practiced for two years. I worked in real estate and finance for about a year in LA, and in CMBS for a little less than a year in NY. In NY, I worked closely with bankers, but never worked for a bank. In fact, I was just thinking about it earlier today, but this is the first time in my life that I've received a paycheck from a public company. As I mentioned in another post, prior IB experience is nice, but not critical to landing a banking job. You just need to be sure to demonstrate the qualities that they are looking for.

I didn't do MC recruiting, so I didn't really look into the statistics that closely. I do know that McKinsey hired 7 people from Darden this year, which I think was an all-time high. Just among the people that I knew well from my section, I know that one guy landed with McKinsey in Taipei (his top choice), and another with Bain in Stockholm (his top choice). Bain has traditionally had strong ties with Darden, but it seems like McKinsey has a new focus on the school. I'll also mention that Goldman added Darden as a core school last year (hired 5 people) and Google came to campus for the first time (hired 3 people). Lehman was an extremely popular choice last fall and hired 9 people into all divisions including 5 into investment banking - increased numbers even as they reduced hiring elsewhere.

I believe that the MC people by and large all landed in different offices around the country and worldwide - definitely not a focus on just Atlanta or Charlotte or anything like that. I'm more familiar with the banking folks, and while most went to NY of course, people landed in LA, SF, Chicago, Atlanta, Houston, Charlotte, Newport Beach, Toronto, Tokyo, London, Hong Kong and more. Considering the small class size, I think that national and international opportunities are plentiful and accessible.

Double Kudos Pelihu! Many many thanks for capturing the Darden life in such wonderful manner.

I am almost certain I would apply to Darden , now ( Sometime I am thinking, I should have applied there last year only). I know, you researched the banking jobs, but any idea how the other consulting firms than McK recruited there? I have seen the employment report, but how is the current scene of international students? Are they facing increased difficulty than last year ( I heard things are bad in US, eg, my current firm, which actively recruited internationals till last year has decided not to recruit int'ls from campus if the candidate is not too compelling)!

Anybody (pelihu?) have any insights into what the social scene is like at Darden?

I know Charlottesville has a lot to do for a city of its size, but I have this nagging suspicion of everything below the Mason-Dixon line (just kidding!) and wonder how someone who's lived in big cities all his life would make the adjustment there.

If I can get a nice IB gig in LA like Pelihu did, Darden will def move a bit higher on my list

I'll drive down and visit in the late fall (it's only a couple hrs away) to get a feel for the case study method before committing.

Well, I've lived and worked in three of the most popular big-city destinations in the US (LA, SF, NY) so I definitely have an idea of what that is like; and I've seen my share of college towns as well. I really like Charlottesville a lot, but you really need to prepare yourelf in advance for what to expect. As a college town, Charlottesville really has everything...except for elite programs in sports that matter. For someone like me that really enjoys college sports, that's actually a pretty big factor, but at least they have Division I college football and basketball (and besides, I already have my team loyalties).

Charlottesville has a number of really good restaurants. I wasn't expecting much, thinking it would all be Applebee's and Hardee's, but I was actually pleasantly surprised. Now, you aren't going to find anything with Michelin stars there, so don't expect to dine out like you would in NY or SF, but I think the options are probably better than most cities below the Mason-Dixon line (to co-opt your geography), regardless of size, except for DC, New Orleans, maybe Atlanta. UVA being what it is, Charlottesville has quite a few truly relevant cultural attractions (as opposed to a lot of small towns that have stuff that nobody gives a cr@p about). Lot's of college towns have art gallaries and playhouses, but I think you'll find that those in Charlottesville are a cut above - and you have all the historically significant stuff as well (led by Monticello and the Univeristy itself).

A third big plus is the setting. It's a relaxed, country-club-like atmosphere around Darden and the University, and there are a whole bunch of golf courses within just a few miles ranging from moderate quality to pretty darn good. There are a lot of hiking trails and things like that as well; sure all colleges have things like these, but most can't match the overall setting that Charlottesville offers.

The night-life is where you'll really start to miss the big city (if you like that sort of thing). There are plenty of bars around, but most cater to the college crowd (obviously). You aren't gonig to find any warehouse sized clubs around Charlottesville. There's a wine growing region around Charlottesville, but if you're from SF and expect wines like those that you enjoy in Napa Valley, you're going to be disappointed. Obviously, Charlottesville isn't all that close to the beach, so folks used to the west side of LA will have to adjust. On the plus side, the co-ed population seems to be quite above average...I'm talking about academics of course

So, I'm actually very happy with Charlottesville. As a college town, it's pretty near perfect. You aren't going to find the hard-drinking that you will around some schools (we aren't in college anyways), and I've got to give a demerit for the crappiness of the football and basketball teams, but it's got quality in pretty much all the elements. If bonding with your fellow students and taking full advantage of what business school has to offer is a top priority for you, you will be ecstatic. Personally, I made the decision that hanging out with my friends from past lives wasn't the best use of my business school time and experience. If you want to be in a place where your friends will come visit you in school, NY, SF or LA are better choices. If you want to immerse yourself in the business school experience, you'll love Charlottesville.

Of course...I wouldn't have taken it any other way





Thanks, very poignant. Superb post as usual.