Columbia Business School

Thank you very much buddy. I understand you must be occupied with the school activities. Worth appreciating that inspite of all this you take the pain to reply these posts. your words of great help indeed. Infact, Unlike others you presented a very encouraging picture. My current profile includes preparing financial models, forecasting etc....so shud be a good chance hopefully!

Thanks again

djhouse81,

Can you please tell us about how recruiting is going at CBS this year? How is investment banking, consulting, investment management, etc. going? Are you seeing a lot of people who wanted investment banking switching over to consulting? Are you seeing the presence of a lot of boutique firms on campus?

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, agold. I've been decompressing during the break and now I am back at it prepping for IB interviews.

Recruiting is going very well this year. I am in the thick of it. I am prepping right now for i-banking interviews, and it is exhausting. Betweem technicals, fit, and why investment banking, there is a lot to cover.

Investment banks have cut down some of their closed lists, but there's no dearth of firms on campus except the ones you'd expect (i.e. Bear, BofA, Wachovia). All of the other big ones are still there, plus several boutiques. Apparently the number of those recruiting for i-banking has been cut in half because of the economy, which is great for those of us still going after IB. I think the difference moved over to consulting because there is a lot of recruits for that space. For consulting, the big firms and boutiques are all there, and they do not seem to be scaling back. It's hard to say, however, when job offers have not been given out yet. I will be able to tell you a lot more after next week. HOPEFULLY WITH SOME GOOD NEWS FOR ME!!!

The area that has been cut back the most is S&T for obvious reasons. If you got a handful of S&T interview invites this year you are a rockstar.

IM recruiters have been on campus en force, but it is very competitive for those jobs regardless of the economy. I think a lot more factors determine your success in that area than others. IB and consulting are more career switcher friendly, and they also play the recruiting game more. IM does not care about the recruiting game as much, and if you have CFA on your resume and great long/short stock pitches you are money. This is not hard and fast, but keep it in mind.

In the end, at Columbia recruiting is strong. We compete with H/W, and it helps to be in NY because you make a trip down to the firm's office to meet with them at a moments notice. The recruiting season adds about 1.5 classes to your schedule, which impinges upon your sleep if you intend on getting good grades at the same time. Just give it your all, never rest on your laurels, and keep in mind that there are thousands of people who would kill to be in your shoes sitting in front of GS or JPM. If you keep that in mind it acts as great fuel to push you through a grueling recruiting season, and in the end it will all be worth it because you'll have a job lined up!

What an amazing and thoughtful post. Thank you. +1

Best of luck with IB recruiting and let us know how it goes! I submitted my app for CBS RD earlier this week and I am really excited about the school.

Good luck agold. If you end up visiting campus, let me know and I will show you around.

One more thought regarding IM recruiting. The IM recruiting done on campus is mostly mutual funds, such as Fidelity. If you want hedge funds, that might take more leg work because they tend to recruit off campus. They want people who are going to make the effort contacting them. I think this is especially true for the ones who are trying to navigate the economy right now. They do not need an intern, but one comes across their path who is right for the job they will hire. The funds that raised capital before the downturn and are navigating well are more likely to recruit on campus.

There is a PE forum on CBS campus, on Jan16th I believe. Its a good time to visit campus and see how and whats going on in that industry. ..

djhouse,

Thanks for all the insight. One more question if you don't mind - will a 710 GMAT hold you back at all during IM or IB recruiting? Do places like Goldman Sachs or Fidelity look for way higher scores? Do they even look at the Quant portion itself at all, or only the composite score?

January 30th. I'll be there!

No it won't at all. Of course a higher score makes you more attractive, but it hasn't hurt me nor all of the other 700's, 710's, etc. I speak on behalf of ibankers, of course.

For IM, since there are fewer jobs, it might make more of a difference. But for IM, the stock pitch is paramount. During recruiting you will set up informationals, and they will probably ask for a stock pitch. If you give them a good one, you're all set, if not--even with a 770--you're done. IM recruiting is not as structured and the competition is tougher for various reasons, such as the CFA designation is more prevalent.

If you want to do IBanking, your time is best spent now researching firms, formulating your pitch, getting familiar with the markets and economy, and getting ready to hit the ground running as soon as firms start recruiting. If you want to do IM, your time is best spent now researching long/short ideas and studying for your CFA. With a 710, your GMAT score is definitely not on your list of priorities.

Thanks for the insight!

Djhouse,
Thanks for the info thats good to know about the GMAT score and IM/IB. I've just applied to Coloumbia for 2009 admissions. Do you know how much weight the Columbia adcoms give to the CFA? I took and passed levels I (Dec 07) & II (June 08) this past year and am taking level III this June (fingers crossed). As a resut of: CFA study, work, gmat study & bschool essays I've had to put the rest of my life on hold this past year (read no extracurrulars over this last year).

I don't have a firm answer on this, but I could speculate. Adcoms know that IM loves CFA's, so from the business side of running a bschool it makes you more attractive to recruiters and therefore more attractive to the school. I also think adcoms know the prestige of a CFA, so that makes you attractive as an overall candidate. Does it replace a good background, GMAT score, and GPA? No. I think it just gives the adcoms a little more confirmation that you are a strong applicant, and another indisputable reason to admit you.

By the way, CFA candidates who have passed even level I have so on there resume. If you can pass III before school, that will really set you apart from other students recruiting from IM and the like. Go get 'em!

djhouse81,
Thanks for the info. My fingers are crossed for level III. Level II was brutal
SP

Djhouse81,

For the stock pitch - are IM and S&T guys looking for a 90-second sum up of the industry outlook, company, and attractive metrics (low p/e ratio, low debt, great growth) OR 10-15 minute in-depth analysis? Is it correct to assume that it's more about your reasoning (how you came to the conclusion) than the stock itself?

Also, do IMs and HFs follow the same recruitment time line as, say, bulge bracket firms? On a few other boards, I read that their recruitment process kicks off later in the year (after IB, S&T and MC offers have been made) and that students have to take initiative to land interviews/gigs at these firms.

Thanks for these wonderful insights - hope your interviews are going well!

The stock pitch that they are looking for could be the entire interview. Most people have prepared a few long/short, so they are prepared for any number of questions about stock picks. And, you are correct, it is more about the reasoning than the stock itself. The stock pitch process is very involved, and it can take months to familiarize yourself with the stock, the industry, and various other trends and economic factors. The people I know who are going for IM jobs know their stuff when it comes to stock pitches.

You are once again correct, IM/HF/PE recruitment is more candidate initiated. However, I think CBS gets a fair amount of on campus recruiting in these areas because it is in NY and the school attracts very good candidates for IM/HF/PE firms. However, most of the IM recruiting done on campus is with the buldge firms like Fidelity, PIMCO, DE Shaw, etc. If you want to work at other firms you will have the take the initiative. As far as timing goes, on campus recruiting is happening now with other IB and consulting on campus recruiting, but they take their time when it comes to making final decisions on offers--while IB and consulting comes to pretty swift decisions. If they do not recruit on campus, the recruiting starts deeper into second semester. The reasoning, and this applies especially to this economy, is that firms want to get closer to the summer to determine whether they need a summer intern.

In general, how much tougher is it to break into HF than IM? If one does not have finance experience pre-mba, will it be tough getting interviews with HFs?

Sorry for badgering you with all these questions but thanks for being so helpful. You're sick (+1).

Keep the questions coming, I'm happy to help where I can. It is tough to get either interview without finance experience. Is it absolutely impossible? No. But it's a long shot. To put it in perspective, at top schools there are dozens of students with IM/HF/IB/PE backgrounds and other excellent stats on their resumes. IM and HF firms are going to want those people first, and there are not than many spots to begin with.

Your best bet if you have no finance experience is to shoot for a non-paying summer internship with a HF. There are plenty of those out there, especially in this economy. In the end, you get the experience, and that is validation enoguh for recruiters to want you for a full-time position come graduation. If unpaid does not work for you, but you still want to go after IM and HF then you need to start preparing immediately. You want to start reaching out to firms, maybe do a summer internship before you start school, read up on stock pitches, start prepping for the CFA, etc. I believe that if you want something bad enough then the effort you put forth will shine through to recruiters. They want someone on board who has unbridled enthusiasm because that translates into solid work.

To sum up, it is not impossible to get a HF/IM internship without finance, but it is rarely seen.