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Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever

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Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   04 Mar 2009, 12:27
We all know it. but few talk about it, when class of 2011 starts looking for a job they not only have the economy to worry about.

Given the mass layoffs and the extremely competitive pool of b-school applicants this year, it is only logical to think that better qualified + more competitive people are getting into the top b-schools. When recruiting comes along, with fewer career choices and less jobs to go around in the MC/IS/HF/PE/VC industries, how hard will it be to get secure a job?

oh, so you thought getting in was tough? most people will face the same if not fiercer competition when recruiting time comes along.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   04 Mar 2009, 15:02
Well from what I've read on this forum lately, it seems the hardest hit industry, IB, still has opportunities for those willing to put in the effort.

I have a feeling that a some people are going to have to settle for less than their dream job coming out of school. And there is nothing wrong with that. Life is about weighing all your options and making the best of it.

RF
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   04 Mar 2009, 15:38
refurb wrote:
Well from what I've read on this forum lately, it seems the hardest hit industry, IB, still has opportunities for those willing to put in the effort.

Not entirely true. To get IB it is a lot more than putting in effort. I know people who did nothing and got BBB because they had the right profile and I know a lot of people at various schools who were trying to career switch but came up empty. They busted their tails networking and learning everything they could about companies, the industry, and what the jobs are like. IB's are far less likely to give a shot to career switchers now than in the past and those doing it have amazing profiles that are often super analytical or were in some finance function before. Profile >>>> Networking.

I think 2011 things will be much better, and a lot of the recruiting problems of this year will be figured out. There will probably be lower numbers going to the choice companies but new companies will show up to take up the slack. Companies that typically were taking most of their talent from 2nd tier schools will now be going to top tier schools and having success attracting people. I don't see salaries dropping really but I dont see them going up at the 5-10% rate they did when things were going great.

Healthcare and Energy have held up remarkably well here at Kellogg compared to all the others. I know some of the energy companies gave out more offers than in the past, and will probably get very strong acceptance rates since they offer great opportunities going forward and probably have the best work/life balance to pay ratio you will find. These are jobs you will do 40-50 hours a week and make 120k+ with large raises and promotions available quickly if you are a star. Healthcare held up well and were open to career changers who showed their passion. If you have a background in HC or energy you had a huge advantage but there are definitely people who got them without prior experience. I think in the next few years these areas will be growing and will start to attract more people from top schools.

The issue will be the internationals and H1b visa situation. Banks and MC were some of the bigger hirers of internationals, a lot of companies in other areas like GM, corporate fin, marketing dont hire internationals to work in the US. Tech doesnt have an issue hiring internationals but many other areas shy away from it. So how that situation plays out will also be a huge factor.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   04 Mar 2009, 15:46
cdnaudit - are you serious? People are comparing this year directly to 2001 already, except in many ways 2001 was better. I cannot imagine that 2011 will be worse than this summer, and I seriously hope for everyone in that class it isn't, as that is heading to serious economic disaster.

I understand where your concern is coming from and based on, but it really isn't going to be anything the same. First, there is nothing to say that the class on 2011 will be any better than any past, save for they are getting better at standardized testing (there is no other way to tell as it is too social, experience). But there is more likely to be jobs.

Recruiting when you are seeing everyone getting laid off, including those that interview you, is a lot worse then less jobs and some sense of hope.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   04 Mar 2009, 21:35
riverripper wrote:
refurb wrote:
Well from what I've read on this forum lately, it seems the hardest hit industry, IB, still has opportunities for those willing to put in the effort.

Not entirely true. To get IB it is a lot more than putting in effort. I know people who did nothing and got BBB because they had the right profile and I know a lot of people at various schools who were trying to career switch but came up empty. They busted their tails networking and learning everything they could about companies, the industry, and what the jobs are like. IB's are far less likely to give a shot to career switchers now than in the past and those doing it have amazing profiles that are often super analytical or were in some finance function before. Profile >>>> Networking.

I think 2011 things will be much better, and a lot of the recruiting problems of this year will be figured out. There will probably be lower numbers going to the choice companies but new companies will show up to take up the slack. Companies that typically were taking most of their talent from 2nd tier schools will now be going to top tier schools and having success attracting people. I don't see salaries dropping really but I dont see them going up at the 5-10% rate they did when things were going great.

Healthcare and Energy have held up remarkably well here at Kellogg compared to all the others. I know some of the energy companies gave out more offers than in the past, and will probably get very strong acceptance rates since they offer great opportunities going forward and probably have the best work/life balance to pay ratio you will find. These are jobs you will do 40-50 hours a week and make 120k+ with large raises and promotions available quickly if you are a star. Healthcare held up well and were open to career changers who showed their passion. If you have a background in HC or energy you had a huge advantage but there are definitely people who got them without prior experience. I think in the next few years these areas will be growing and will start to attract more people from top schools.

The issue will be the internationals and H1b visa situation. Banks and MC were some of the bigger hirers of internationals, a lot of companies in other areas like GM, corporate fin, marketing dont hire internationals to work in the US. Tech doesnt have an issue hiring internationals but many other areas shy away from it. So how that situation plays out will also be a huge factor.


Oh man - so the 'industry' vertical doesn't hire H1B's as well. Technology is an exception. I guess many international students might already be in technology and looking for a career change - especially us Indians.

-pradeep
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   05 Mar 2009, 12:33
3underscore wrote:
cdnaudit - are you serious? People are comparing this year directly to 2001 already, except in many ways 2001 was better. I cannot imagine that 2011 will be worse than this summer, and I seriously hope for everyone in that class it isn't, as that is heading to serious economic disaster.


Agreed, if the economy isn't better over two years from now there are going to be bigger problems than our individual job prospects.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   05 Mar 2009, 14:43
pbanavara wrote:

Oh man - so the 'industry' vertical doesn't hire H1B's as well. Technology is an exception. I guess many international students might already be in technology and looking for a career change - especially us Indians.

-pradeep


While the technology industry on average is more willing to hire internationals than say, CPG, I would still say that about half of the high tech companies recruiting at Ross did not hire internationals. I get the feeling that they save their H1B visa efforts for technical staff, as it is alot easier to get american MBAs than american CSE masters candidates.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   05 Mar 2009, 16:29
bherronp wrote:
While the technology industry on average is more willing to hire internationals than say, CPG, I would still say that about half of the high tech companies recruiting at Ross did not hire internationals. I get the feeling that they save their H1B visa efforts for technical staff, as it is alot easier to get american MBAs than american CSE masters candidates.


Not to throw any more gasoline on the fire, but speaking from pharma/biotech, things don't look good for internationals.

A good friend finished his MBA two years ago and ran into a pretty big road block with the whole H1B thing. He had many biotech companies show interest, that is, until they learned he wasn't a US citizen/permanent resident. That fact pretty much ended the conversation.

He did find a company willing to sponsor his H1B, but it wasn't easy.

RF
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   05 Mar 2009, 16:36
refurb wrote:
bherronp wrote:
While the technology industry on average is more willing to hire internationals than say, CPG, I would still say that about half of the high tech companies recruiting at Ross did not hire internationals. I get the feeling that they save their H1B visa efforts for technical staff, as it is alot easier to get american MBAs than american CSE masters candidates.


Not to throw any more gasoline on the fire, but speaking from pharma/biotech, things don't look good for internationals.

A good friend finished his MBA two years ago and ran into a pretty big road block with the whole H1B thing. He had many biotech companies show interest, that is, until they learned he wasn't a US citizen/permanent resident. That fact pretty much ended the conversation.

He did find a company willing to sponsor his H1B, but it wasn't easy.

RF

There are some companies in every industry who are willing to go to sponsor visas. However, even if they arent great companies to work for they are definitely more competitive because everyone can apply to it not just the 65% of the class that have permanent work authorization. I know some US companies specifically recruit internationals for their overseas positions.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   05 Mar 2009, 19:09
riverripper wrote:
There are some companies in every industry who are willing to go to sponsor visas. However, even if they arent great companies to work for they are definitely more competitive because everyone can apply to it not just the 65% of the class that have permanent work authorization. I know some US companies specifically recruit internationals for their overseas positions.


My friend actually looked at a few "international" rotation positions. Like you said, these companies were looking for international students that could work in specific countries.

I consider myself very fortunate to have been sponsored for a green card by my current company. When I came to the US back in 2001, the H1B quota was more than double what it is today. I know a couple years back my company decided to only sponsor work visas on a "must-have" basis, where in the past they freely hired internationals.

RF
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   05 Mar 2009, 19:32
refurb wrote:
bherronp wrote:
While the technology industry on average is more willing to hire internationals than say, CPG, I would still say that about half of the high tech companies recruiting at Ross did not hire internationals. I get the feeling that they save their H1B visa efforts for technical staff, as it is alot easier to get american MBAs than american CSE masters candidates.


Not to throw any more gasoline on the fire, but speaking from pharma/biotech, things don't look good for internationals.

A good friend finished his MBA two years ago and ran into a pretty big road block with the whole H1B thing. He had many biotech companies show interest, that is, until they learned he wasn't a US citizen/permanent resident. That fact pretty much ended the conversation.

He did find a company willing to sponsor his H1B, but it wasn't easy.

RF


Refurb - I don't look at this as 'gasoline on fire' . A very valid but concerning issue.

Altruistically speaking, all graduates coming out of an institution should be given equal job opportunity, irrespective of nationality or work authorization status. There shouldn't be a concept of obtaining a separate work permit, once the students graduate and obtain a job. However I don't know of a single country that has such a policy. Every student pays the same fees, sits in the same classes, does the same assignments and attends the same recruitment events. The admission process ensures that the students have an acceptable calibre to perform their job duties past graduation, irrespective of the industry or vertical. When such is the case, why should there be any discrimination about 'work status' ?

-pradeep
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   05 Mar 2009, 21:40
unfortunately we live in a world where visas exist. It would be interesting to try to imagine a world where moving people was as easy as moving capital.

You have to realize that yes, you are attending a US school with US students in it. That you are all paying the same tuition and sitting in the same clasess... however, you can't jump on your argument from recruitment opportunities to migrating opportunities all at once.

As an international student you have to consider the added risk that you may not find someone in the States to sponsor your visa. Why then are you attending a school in the US?

a) to get the same education US citizens will get
b) to use it as a back door entry into the US
c) all of the above?

(I'm a venezuelan/canadian citizen living in Canada)
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   05 Mar 2009, 23:25
cdnaudit wrote:
unfortunately we live in a world where visas exist. It would be interesting to try to imagine a world where moving people was as easy as moving capital.

You have to realize that yes, you are attending a US school with US students in it. That you are all paying the same tuition and sitting in the same clasess... however, you can't jump on your argument from recruitment opportunities to migrating opportunities all at once.

As an international student you have to consider the added risk that you may not find someone in the States to sponsor your visa. Why then are you attending a school in the US?

a) to get the same education US citizens will get
b) to use it as a back door entry into the US
c) all of the above?

(I'm a venezuelan/canadian citizen living in Canada)


I'm talking purely about recruitment opportunities and not immigration/migration.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   06 Mar 2009, 05:38
pbanavara wrote:
cdnaudit wrote:
unfortunately we live in a world where visas exist. It would be interesting to try to imagine a world where moving people was as easy as moving capital.

You have to realize that yes, you are attending a US school with US students in it. That you are all paying the same tuition and sitting in the same clasess... however, you can't jump on your argument from recruitment opportunities to migrating opportunities all at once.

As an international student you have to consider the added risk that you may not find someone in the States to sponsor your visa. Why then are you attending a school in the US?

a) to get the same education US citizens will get
b) to use it as a back door entry into the US
c) all of the above?

(I'm a venezuelan/canadian citizen living in Canada)


I'm talking purely about recruitment opportunities and not immigration/migration.


The two go hand in hand. You can't be recruited to work in a country where you don't have legal work authorization.

I remember hearing about a UK program a few years ago where if you had an MBA from a top school (as they defined it) and spoke English, you automatically qualified for a UK work permit. I wouldn't mind seeing a similar program in the US that made it much easier for highly skilled workers to work in the US.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   06 Mar 2009, 11:10
So I am watching CNBC and Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa is proposing a regulation (especially affects tech companies in Sillicon Valley) that US companies must fire H-1 Visa before they fire a US worker (if they are laying ppl off)....

I am speechless..... :x
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   06 Mar 2009, 11:24
nink wrote:
So I am watching CNBC and Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa is proposing a regulation (especially affects tech companies in Sillicon Valley) that US companies must fire H-1 Visa before they fire a US worker (if they are laying ppl off)....

I am speechless..... :x


Speechless ... yeah.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   06 Mar 2009, 11:30
nink wrote:
So I am watching CNBC and Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa is proposing a regulation (especially affects tech companies in Sillicon Valley) that US companies must fire H-1 Visa before they fire a US worker (if they are laying ppl off)....

I am speechless..... :x


You're speechless that a politician would propose a dumb idea? Seems to be pretty common practice.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   06 Mar 2009, 11:37
Do not think it will go any further, he is representing Iowa.

I also agree, that internationals should remember the added risk. You shouldn't think that attending a US institution will allow US employment. However, the government intervening with a set regulation on visas for short term gains is going to hurt long term gain.

However, I do feel that this action was used for indirect results (sending a response to the immigration individuals that are not legal).
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   06 Mar 2009, 11:43
Jerz wrote:
pbanavara wrote:
cdnaudit wrote:
unfortunately we live in a world where visas exist. It would be interesting to try to imagine a world where moving people was as easy as moving capital.

You have to realize that yes, you are attending a US school with US students in it. That you are all paying the same tuition and sitting in the same clasess... however, you can't jump on your argument from recruitment opportunities to migrating opportunities all at once.

As an international student you have to consider the added risk that you may not find someone in the States to sponsor your visa. Why then are you attending a school in the US?

a) to get the same education US citizens will get
b) to use it as a back door entry into the US
c) all of the above?

(I'm a venezuelan/canadian citizen living in Canada)


I'm talking purely about recruitment opportunities and not immigration/migration.


The two go hand in hand. You can't be recruited to work in a country where you don't have legal work authorization.

I remember hearing about a UK program a few years ago where if you had an MBA from a top school (as they defined it) and spoke English, you automatically qualified for a UK work permit. I wouldn't mind seeing a similar program in the US that made it much easier for highly skilled workers to work in the US.


Yes precisely, the legal work authorization should be granted based on the education one obtains in the host country and not require an employer to separately sponsor such an employee.

The earlier HSMP program in UK is now changed to the 'Tier 1 visa'. You might have read about this in various forums here. However I'm with you on this. Even the tier 1 program seems to be a better option than the H1B program, by not requiring the recruiting company to sponsor the worker.
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink] New post   06 Mar 2009, 12:21
I think it is a very controversial debate because in these times there is going to be heavy bias towards the "buy american" concept.

If you were to automatically obtain legal status by getting an mba then the application process would have to be modified, you're not only applying for entrance into a school - you're applying for a work permit (all in one).

Why are people from developing countries thinking about getting away all the time? why not get educated and then go back to your country to maybe contribute to the advancement of your people. Besides, where do you think the value of a top MBA is going to be greater? in manhattan or in a poor country where good ideas are desperately needed to help everyone get ahead?

Disc: I plan on going against the brain drain by becoming valuable and then moving to south america in order to help where its most needed
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Re: Job prospects for one of the most competitive classes ever [#permalink]
06 Mar 2009, 12:21
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