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Grade Non-disclosure and recruiting

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isa
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Grade Non-disclosure and recruiting [#permalink] New post   01 Apr 2009, 20:22
I know this topic's been discussed before but I suck at finding old threads. :?

Just had a few questions about GND and recruiting, and was hoping y'all could offer some insight:

1) As I understand it, GND means that companies recruiting on-campus are not allowed to ask for your grades. I've heard (anecdotally) that if you recruit with companies off-campus, they are allowed to ask your grades, and you must report them. Is that correct? How does that work?

2) At schools where there is GND, is more emphasis placed on undergrad GPA as part of recruiting? I understand that you are still able to bid on interview slots, but am curious as whether undergrad GPA is weighed more/less heavily with GND.

3) It seems some schools allow you to mention if you're on the Dean's List, but not the gpa itself. In those cases, do recruiters tend to screen resumes for mention of the Dean's List?

Thanks :)
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riverripper
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Re: Grade Non-disclosure and recruiting [#permalink] New post   01 Apr 2009, 21:15
Not a deciding factor imo. If companies care about grades enough to want to see them if your school allows it then they will base their opinion off undergrad, GMAT, other grad degrees. I tend to think that companies that care that much about grades are the ones that are going to look for you being some scholar or deans list thing anyways and all schools have something along those lines. I have heard that at law school your GPA gets you the good jobs and thats all that matters...definitely not the case with MBAs.

Work experience and how well you interview means WAY more than GPA...I know one of my friends has, to put it bluntly, a crap GPA here and undergrad but is probably the best interviewer I have ever seen. Doing a mock with him was amazing, and he has a strong resume so he got interviews based on that and then landed one of the most desirable companies here despite having a bad gpa because he could blew people away during an interview. Then I know people who have 4.0s and are going to companies that definitely werent their top choice and are far less competitive.

I would like to have grade non-disclosure here...not because I think it matters for recruiting but because I think some applicants to the school might use it as a factor when choosing schools (recruiting students not for students recruiting for jobs). Looking at it that way I worry more about losing some great future students than it preventing someone from getting a job. Yes some companies ask but I know people who got offers from companies that claim to want a 3.5 or something like that and their GPA was well below that number. I think they realize the competition at a top 5 school is a lot stiffer than at other schools, and with a forced curve only X% of students are getting an A in a core class. I am confident if I went to a lot of lower ranked schools I could nail a 4.0 since I wouldnt be in classes with some of the amazingly brilliant people I share rooms with here.

Maybe Rhyme with his scholar status can give his input on GND.
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Re: Grade Non-disclosure and recruiting [#permalink] New post   01 Apr 2009, 22:14
isa wrote:
I know this topic's been discussed before but I suck at finding old threads. :?

Just had a few questions about GND and recruiting, and was hoping y'all could offer some insight:

1) As I understand it, GND means that companies recruiting on-campus are not allowed to ask for your grades. I've heard (anecdotally) that if you recruit with companies off-campus, they are allowed to ask your grades, and you must report them. Is that correct? How does that work?

2) At schools where there is GND, is more emphasis placed on undergrad GPA as part of recruiting? I understand that you are still able to bid on interview slots, but am curious as whether undergrad GPA is weighed more/less heavily with GND.

3) It seems some schools allow you to mention if you're on the Dean's List, but not the gpa itself. In those cases, do recruiters tend to screen resumes for mention of the Dean's List?

Thanks :)


I've already expressed my love of GND in other threads :)

1. Here, GND means you can't disclose your grades to an employer in any setting, on or off campus. It's actually quite strict. Most companies know our policy and don't even ask. I haven't heard of anyone running into problems with this during interviews.

2. I didn't recruit for finance or MC, so unfortunately I can't really answer your question. I guess undergrad GPA might play a role. I didn't submit my GMAT score anywhere, though I know it does come into play for finance and MC (again, I don't know how much of a role it plays).

3. We don't have a Dean's List, so companies can't screen for that :)
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Re: Grade Non-disclosure and recruiting [#permalink] New post   01 Apr 2009, 23:09
So technically, if you have a subpar undergrad GPA, a GND ccan be a disadvantage?
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Re: Grade Non-disclosure and recruiting [#permalink] New post   02 Apr 2009, 06:44
In all honesty, I agree with River - GND makes very little to no difference in either direction.

1) On recruiting - very few companies care about GPA (grad or undergrad) anyway. Plus, these companies are going to find a number to grade you on regardless of GND (whether it is GMAT, undergrad GPA, etc.). Plus, the only GPA that these companies have to go on is your first quarter GPA - so obviously it is pretty meaningless to begin with. Thus, on the recruiting front, everything else (networking, resume, cover letter, etc.) matters A LOT more than GPA.

2) On competition at school - if you put a bunch of type A, business school students together at any school then they are going to care about doing well in their classes (GND or not). I would imagine that people strive equally to do well in classes at Kellogg, Chicago, Wharton, Stanford, Harvard, etc. regardless of the weight of the GND policies - and that's because each is a highly motivated group striving to do well and learn.

On the competition point further - Wharton is perceived to be one of the more competitive environments and Kellogg is perceived to be one of the least competitive b-school environments, yet Wharton has GND and Kellogg doesn't.

GND does not a culture make. Try to determine your fit with an overall culture, not with GND or not GND.
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Re: Grade Non-disclosure and recruiting [#permalink] New post   02 Apr 2009, 09:21
Steel, but imagine if Wharton didn't have GND and Kellogg had, then their characteristics could be exacerbated, perhaps people at Wharton would be even more cut throat and and Kellogg too soft. Just a thought.

Just like terry, I've expressed here my love to GND. With GND here in Booth, I've seen people with CPA taking easy accounting classes to have stellar GPAs, mostly because they want to make the transition to PE by going first to IB and 2 - 3 years later going to Private Equity, and then people will look if you graduated with honors, if have a good GPA etc. I think these people are planning too far ahead, but I don't blame then. On the other hand, I know people who took Fama's class in the first quarter (just to give an example) as the grade wouldn't hurt her/him even though the class is a PhD level. For recruiting I believe it doesn't matter too much, unless for a non GND you have only C's or A+'s.

I interviewed with 4 banks for S&T positions and 2 big Investment Management firms (both on the fixed income side), nobody asked me about grades, they asked me about courses I took was taking and my plan for the future. My interviews were in general extremally technical. I neglected networking and I believe this hurt my applications to several places (from this 6 I had to bid for 3), I wasn't used to this networking environment, it is as important as previous experience/personal skills.

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Re: Grade Non-disclosure and recruiting [#permalink] New post   02 Apr 2009, 12:40
Quote:
1) As I understand it, GND means that companies recruiting on-campus are not allowed to ask for your grades. I've heard (anecdotally) that if you recruit with companies off-campus, they are allowed to ask your grades, and you must report them. Is that correct? How does that work?


At Booth, I think it means you can't disclose on or off campus.

Quote:
2) At schools where there is GND, is more emphasis placed on undergrad GPA as part of recruiting? I understand that you are still able to bid on interview slots, but am curious as whether undergrad GPA is weighed more/less heavily with GND.


No not really. I got asked about my undergrad GPA once (it wasn't listed). I know that the MC firms tend to ask for your GMAT score in the applications and I suspect that plays some role in the decision process (to get the interview in the first place). Once you have the interview, its really all about how you do in the interview..

Quote:
3) It seems some schools allow you to mention if you're on the Dean's List, but not the gpa itself. In those cases, do recruiters tend to screen resumes for mention of the Dean's List?


I doubt they explicitly screen for this. No one's even ever brought it up (its on my resume of course). Bottom line, grades don't much matter. That said, it IS nice not to have to actually worry that if I get a B in something there might be a repercussion.
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isa
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Re: Grade Non-disclosure and recruiting [#permalink] New post   02 Apr 2009, 19:47
Thanks all, for your insight!!

+1 imaginary kudos to you all (to be given when kudos come back)
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Re: Grade Non-disclosure and recruiting [#permalink]
02 Apr 2009, 19:47

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