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TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

This question seems to have been mostly addressed, but I wanted to add a few small things.

Q40
The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological
stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders
so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed
to correct it.

A. so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have
failed to correct it.
B. so that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct
C. in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct them

NOTE: In A, B, and C, the phrases "so that" and "in that" would modify some kind of action, as in "He went to the store so that he could find Amy" or "It was a bad move in that it resulted in him getting dumped by Amy." We don't have an action we want to modify here (i.e., the only verb we have in the first half of the sentence is "are", and we're probably not modifying that).


D. that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have
failed to correct
E. that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct them

NOTE: D & E both correctly employ a relative pronoun to modify the final noun. The phrase beginning with "that" (a relative pronoun) thus modifies whatever word came before it. In this case, this final phrase must be modifying "managerial blunders", not the entirety of the list. For this reason, the "them" is majorly wrong. First, it is ambiguous (could refer to any individual plural noun in the list, or the whole list). Second, it is nonsense, because we're already in a modifying phrase, so there should be no need to point towards the noun we're talking about.

Word up.

Hope that helps!


The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have
failed to correct

Treat the compound subject as a single plural subject because the compound subject is plural. (I choose bloopers)

The computer company’s present troubles are a result of bloopers that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct
The reason why we do not need ‘them; is because the relative clause (that several....) already modifies bloopers and we don’t need a ‘them’ to state bloopers again.

Quoting you "D & E both correctly employ a relative pronoun to modify the final noun. The phrase beginning with "that" (a relative pronoun) thus modifies whatever word came before it. In this case, this final phrase must be modifying "managerial blunders", not the entirety of the list."

'that' modifies all 3 reasons because all 3 reason together cause the problem and not 'mangerial blunders'. ( tommy, you are being to hard on the managers :P )

'that' modifies the noun phrase(all 3 compund nouns in this case, not managerial blunders' as u stated) it touches, the only probable exception to this rule could be when 'that' modifies object of prepostion'.

Originally posted by roshanaslam on 20 Aug 2010, 00:41.
Last edited by roshanaslam on 20 Aug 2010, 09:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Hey All,

Yes, relative pronouns are bit wishy-washy this way. They can modify the entire noun phrase, but they can also just modify the last noun. Logic really dictates what's happening.

I am in love with my car and the girlfriend that I met last week.

Clearly "that I met last week" is not modifying both nouns, but only the last one. Think of the modifier as a kind of adjective.

I am in love with the time and money that this new job affords me.

Clearly "that this new job affords me" is modifying both "time" and "money".

Either of these is considered correct, as long as it's clear which is meant.

-t
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Hey Munda,

Sure! Here's the sentence with answer choice E:

The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have
failed to correct them.

Starting with the relative pronoun "that", we have a modifying clause that is modifying "blunders". This is the antecedent of "them". However, there's no need to REFER to the very word that we're in the process of modifying. It would be like saying:

I'm waiting for the woman that I love her.

We don't need the pronoun "her," because we're actually MODIFYING the word "woman."

Hope that makes sense!

-t
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singh_amit19 wrote:
The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct it.


(A) so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct it

(B) so that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct

(C) in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them

(D) that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct

(E) that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them


This question is based on Modifiers and Construction.

The phrase ‘so that’ implies a reason.
I bought a cycle so that I could exercise everyday.

The use of this phrase implies that the first part of the sentence is a reason for the second part. Since this is not the intended meaning, the use of this phrase is inappropriate. So, Options A and B can be eliminated.

The phrase “in that” also implies an explanation or reason. So, Option C can also be eliminated.

Options D and E begin with the relative pronoun ‘that’. The relative pronoun refers to the noun placed immediately before it.

In Option D, the relative pronoun ‘that’ refers to the noun ‘managerial blunders’. The modifier “that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct” describes ‘managerial blunders. So, D is the best of all the options.

In Option E, the pronoun ‘them’ is ambiguous. If the relative pronoun ‘that’ refers to ‘managerial blunders’, there is no need for another pronoun to refer to the same noun. So, Option E can also be eliminated.

Therefore, D is the most appropriate option.

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Dear Friends,

Here is a detailed explanation to this question-
singh_amit19 wrote:
The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct it.


(A) so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct it

(B) so that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct

(C) in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them

(D) that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct

(E) that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them


Meaning is crucial to solving this problem:
Understanding the intended meaning is key to solving this question; the intended meaning of this sentence is that the computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders, and several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct these blunders.

Concepts tested here: Meaning + Pronouns + Idioms

• “in that” is used to reflect an intrinsic property and “because” is used to indicate a cause-effect relationship.
• "attempt + to" is the correct idiomatic construction.

A: This answer choice incorrectly refers to the plural noun phrase "technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders" with the singular pronoun "it". Further, Option A alters the meaning of the sentence through the phrase "so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed"; the construction of this phrase leads to an incoherent meaning; the intended meaning is that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct the computer company's managerial blunders.

B: This answer choice alters the meaning of the sentence through the phrase "so that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed"; the construction of this phrase leads to an incoherent meaning; the intended meaning is that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct the computer company's managerial blunders. Further, Option B incorrectly uses the unidiomatic construction "attempts + at"; please remember, "attempt + to" is the correct idiomatic construction.

C: This answer choice alters the meaning of the sentence through the phrase "in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies"; the use of "in that" incorrectly implies that the fact that several attempts to revise corporate strategies failed to correct them is an intrinsic property of the computer company’s present troubles being a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders; the intended meaning is that the computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders, and several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct these blunders; remember, "in that" “in that” is used to reflect an intrinsic property. Further, Option C suffers from pronoun ambiguity, as it is unclear whether the pronoun "them" refers to "managerial blunders" or "corporate strategies". Additionally, Option C incorrectly uses the unidiomatic construction "attempts + at"; please remember, "attempt + to" is the correct idiomatic construction.

D: Correct. This answer choice uses the phrase "that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct" to modify "managerial blunders", conveying the intended meaning - that the computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders, and several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct these blunders. Further, Option D avoids the pronoun errors seen in Options A, C, and E, as it uses no pronouns. Additionally, Option D correctly uses the idiomatic construction "attempts + to".

E: This answer choice alters the meaning of the sentence through the phrase "have failed to correct them"; the construction of this phrase leads to an incoherent meaning; the intended meaning is that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct the computer company's managerial blunders. Further, Option E suffers from pronoun ambiguity, as it is unclear whether the pronoun "them" refers to "managerial blunders" or "corporate strategies". Additionally, Option E incorrectly uses the unidiomatic construction "attempts + at"; please remember, "attempt + to" is the correct idiomatic construction.

Hence, D is the best answer choice.

All the best!
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TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

Yes, relative pronouns are bit wishy-washy this way. They can modify the entire noun phrase, but they can also just modify the last noun. Logic really dictates what's happening.

I am in love with my car and the girlfriend that I met last week.

Clearly "that I met last week" is not modifying both nouns, but only the last one. Think of the modifier as a kind of adjective.

I am in love with the time and money that this new job affords me.

Clearly "that this new job affords me" is modifying both "time" and "money".

Either of these is considered correct, as long as it's clear which is meant.

-t



tommy. thanks for the reply.
the is a verbal review question. question no. 87. quoting 'the verbal review', 'this sentence lists 3 causes of the company's troubles and suggests that the strategies to correct the cause have failed'

very clearly the strategies are for all the 3 nouns and not just ' managerial blunder'

though i understood what u tried to say in the first example('I am in love with my car and the girlfriend that I met last week') , wouldnt the gmat love to see a 'who' in place of a 'that' to refer to 'the girlfriend'?? yeah 'that' can refer to humans/objects/theories etc, but i guess gmat will make sure that 'who' refers to 'girlfriend' in this case.
PS: the new song 'whisper' is awesome.
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Hey All,

I got asked this by PM (but don't PM me anymore, because I'm taking a break from the forums).

Isn't "It was a bad move in that it resulted in him getting dumped by Amy." similar to "The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders in that"

In both the sentences the verb is a form of "to be" .In the first case the verb is was and in the 2nd one the verb is are. Please explain the difference or is it that i havnt understood. I think C. in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them.


The problem Gurvinder is that it isn't modifying the right action. Notice in your first example how "in that" is modifying "was a bad move", and what comes after "in that" EXPLAINS HOW it's a bad move?

Well in the full sentence: The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders in that in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them.

Look at what comes after the "in that". This is NOT explaining how there were managerial blunders. This is explaining how the managerial blunders can't be corrected. That's not how you use it. This would be like saying "It was a bad move in that it was really bad." That doesn't explain HOW it was a bad move, so it doesn't work.

Make sense?

-t
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I think the reason why you are having problems with this sentence is because the meaning is not clear to you.

Look at the sentence with correct option D:

The computer companys present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct.

The computer companys present troubles are a result of (technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders) that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct.

So, that modifies technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders. Essentially, the sentence is saying that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders.

Lets look at a simpler sentence if the above structure is still not clear:

Do we say:

This is the shop that I have opened.

Or do we say:

This is the shop that I have opened it.

Clearly it, as used in the second sentence, is neither necessary nor desirable.

Hence, E (that uses them) is not correct.
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This sentence, among other things, entails the intrinsic knowledge of common English constructions.

“so that” is used to introduce the concept of consequence. For instance,

I am studying hard for the GMAT, so that I can get a good score.
The president is tapering IT industries’ tax-breaks so that his approval rating will rise.
Europe will rebuff any nuclear power-plant project so that the risk of potential trouble is greatly diminished.

A, B, C “so that” construction in this sentence is logically out of place.

A) pronoun "it" is un-necessary and ambiguous. You don’t say “This is the car that I sold it.
B) fragment: the sentence is incomplete.
C) “in that” is completely wrong. Moreover “them” is un-necessary and ambiguous.
D) this is the correct answer. Every issue has been addressed. (“so that” construction has been discarded, “attempts to” substituted with “attempts at”, and “it/them” removed.
E) “them” once again is not necessary and wrong.

>> Hope it Helps
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The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct it.

Issue: Construction | Meaning

Analysis:
1. The non-underlined portion of the sentence mentioned 3 reasons for company's trouble.
2. The underlined part seems be connected illogically by "so that". "so that" is used to effect. Hence, the current sentence is illogical.


A. so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct it
- "so that" results in non-sensical sentence
- "it" does not have a clear antecedent


B. so that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct
- "so that" results in non-sensical sentence

C. in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them
- "in that" is incorrect

D. that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct

E. that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them
- "them" is not required since the usage of "that.. have failed correct" should be enough to convey intended meaning

NOTE: "attempts at revising" also feels a unidiomatic (as compared to "attempts to") in the context of this sentence. Can someone clarify this? Is it actually the case or am I just over-analyzing?

Answer: (D)
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GMATNinja, broall, VeritasPrepKarishma

Is attempt at revising ? correct

singh_amit19 wrote:
The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct it.

A. so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct it
B. so that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct
C. in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them
D. that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct
E. that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them
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gmatbusters wrote:
GMATNinja, broall, VeritasPrepKarishma

Is attempt at revising ? correct

singh_amit19 wrote:
The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct it.

A. so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct it
B. so that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct
C. in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them
D. that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct
E. that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them


"attempts at revising" is fine.
We use attempt at with a noun. "revising" is a gerund.
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If there was "Which" instead of "That" in the correct answer will the answer still be correct
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swapnil611 wrote:
If there was "Which" instead of "That" in the correct answer will the answer still be correct


Yes, technically, you can start an essential modifier clause with "which" too (without a comma of course). Though many writers prefer "that". GMAT will not test you on this distinction.
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egmat wrote:
Hi All,

The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct it.



• The computer company is facing troubles because of three issues:
o technological stagnation,
o marketing missteps, and
o managerial blunders.
• The company has tried several measures to revise its corporate strategies but all have failed to solve these issues. However, this sentence does not express the meaning correctly because of use of “so that”.



• The clause following “so that” is not doing the job it is supposed to` as discussed earlier. Meaning error here.
• All these entities are noun phrases and the modifier following them actually describes these so we simply need a noun modifier to describe them. If “so” is removed from “so that”, then “that” will correctly turn into the noun modifier that will correctly describe all the troubles.
• Singular pronoun “it” is incorrect to refer to three troubles. In fact, we don’t even need that pronoun. Let’s understand this with the help of a simple example.
o Dr Lee’s degree allows him to diagnose ear, nose and throat diseases that he cures for very little fee.

In this sentence we do not need “them” after “cures” because all the diseases that Dr Lee can cure has already been stated. Similarly, we don’t need any pronoun in the “that clause” as all the troubles that the computer company is facing have already been stated.

POE:

Choice A: so that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct it: Incorrect for the reasons discussed above.

Choice B: so that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct: Incorrect. Same meaning error as in A.

Choice C: in that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them: Incorrect.
a. The function of the clause following “in that” is to describe the “how” of the preceding clause.
o Bats are very good at guarding their nests in that they take turns in looking after the nests and inform the others members by making sound if they sense any danger.
But in this choice, the 2nd clause is not describing how the three issues actually lead to troubles for the computer company.
b. Pronoun “them” is incorrect. Logically this should refer to the tech stagnation, missteps, and blunders. But the way it is used, it refers to strategies and that distorts the meaning of the sentence.

Choice D: that several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct. Correct.

Choice E: that several attempts at revising corporate strategies have failed to correct them. Incorrect. Same pronoun error as in C.



1. Modifiers must be worded correctly to convey the intended meaning of the sentence.
2. Every pronoun must be used correctly.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
Shraddha


Dear egmat,

1.I have rejected Option A & B because "so that" is incorrectly used
2. in that is also wrong because it is giving details of previous clause which is illogical.

I am not convinced regarding the use of "that". Kindly explain in detail. My Grammar is basic and your response will help me preparing to score high in GMAT.

Looking forward for revert.

Thanks in advance.
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priyanshu14 wrote:
I am not convinced regarding the use of "that".

Hi priyanshu14, in this case, that is modifying the noun-phrase technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders.

that is very flexible in this regard, since that can modify the noun/noun-phrase whichever makes sense.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses modifier issues of that, their application and examples in significant detail. If you or someone is interested, PM me your email-id; I can mail the corresponding section.
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VeritasKarishma wrote:
swapnil611 wrote:
If there was "Which" instead of "That" in the correct answer will the answer still be correct


Yes, technically, you can start an essential modifier clause with "which" too (without a comma of course). Though many writers prefer "that". GMAT will not test you on this distinction.

VeritasKarishma
The correct choice is:
Quote:
D. The computer company’s present troubles are a result of technological stagnation, marketing missteps, and managerial blunders that which several attempts to revise corporate strategies have failed to correct.

I don't know how it makes sense if that is replaced with which.
Can you make clear it, please?
Thanks__
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