DARDEN VS. CORNELL

there are great reasons to choose either school over the other, but few seem to have been discussed here.It would seem relevant that one of the johnson school's best selling points is its proximity to other top graduate programs in hospitality, real estate, law and engineering.

second, in terms of the "overall" programs, there isn't a dramatic difference between the two without considering one's particular needs. i would say the decision is best based on individual preferences for career, geography, etc. some career tracks will likely do better at one school versus the other but, without more information on what you are seeking, any speculation is useless. also, while ithaca may not be an ideal locale, it is much closer to NYC than charlottesville. for some people, that may be important.

if someone is considering applying to both schools, that sounds like a prudent idea. if, on the other hand, you have applied and been accepted to both, and you've visited both and done your due diligence, and still you are undecided to the point you are going to ask such a banal question to an internet forum?

Moderator edit: removed off-topic comments

At Cornell, "Here Comes Treble" is always looking for a good baritone.

I have to agree. I wanted to use the collective knowledge of the forum to better inform my decision. I honestly dont see the harm of doing this.

I believe your post is totally uncalled for and certainly not on the the same level of the friendly debate of GMAT CLUB.

LAOF, how about some more information about your decision-making process? Are you in the early stages of the process and looking to apply to these schools? Have you been accepted to them? What are your plans/goals post-MBA? Tell us more about your background. These are important factors that could make a discussion like this much more informative, for you and others.

Moderator edit: removed off-topic comments

2012: don't make comments about people's nationality/background. I don't think you intended to imply anything nasty by your comment, but it certainly could be interpreted to be an insult.

Pkit: don't make insulting or mocking comments about schools or their programs. We have students and applicants here from many different schools, and they shouldn't have to listen to others bash their school.

Both of you should take a deep breath and calm down. Keep it polite and stop shouting at each other, or there will be disciplinary action in your future. I've removed the off-topic insults from both your posts, let's get this thread back on topic.

I am sorry, I recognise it was a misunderstanding from my side.
My comments about pros and cos attending each of the schools were based on the following file (see attached), I am not the author. Nothing personal.

I would shake 2012's hand.

i think it's time to add some meat to this discussion, i am currently going through this process and figured I would impart my impressions for the community:

Cornell is an excellent MBA program located about 4 hours from NYC (as a NYC resident who did the drive, it is remote). Ithaca is in beautiful rural country-side, but the town itself is a bit run-down. It definitely has a college vibe, but it just had a dull-gray overtone, closed businesses, eclectic-disjointed school architecture. I attended a few courses including finance and strategy. As an undergraduate business school student, I thought that while the courses were well taught, the information was the same coursework that I learned in undergraduate school (actually very similar to NYU Stern imo). Since it was a first year course, I imagined it would be so, but since they would not allow me to attend a second year course, which I think would have actually been helpful in making a decision it was my only point of comparison. What I think was more disappointing was the seeming lack of preparation of the students. As the professor reviewed the cost of capital formula the students seemed to really struggle with the concept. I imagine like many classrooms, some of the brightest students do not feel the need to speak out, but it was a bit disconcerting thinking that I would have to spend about half of my tuition dollars on repeat education. Now for the flip-side, if you are not coming from a business environment, I think this is the best possible teaching methodology. Reviewing and discussing financial principles in lecture based coursework is a great way to learn the fundamentals of business. The case methodology can distort fundamentals and can fail to teach very essential aspects of business skills that have very practical application. With Cornell, the application process was also a bit disappointing, I felt that the third essay question was unique, but did not add to proving the applicant's candidacy - it almost felt like a forced, "see we're trying to be unique". After interviewing with a student and being asked the stock questions and getting the response, "yea, the adcom thinks your application is excellent and you're a consultant, so I thought you'd interview well, but your gmat's a little low, so we'll see what happens" it seemed like the school basically looked at the application as a series of checkboxes. IB/MC background, check; can write intelligibly, check; some community service, check; speaks coherently in interview, check; over 700, check. Again, not materially different from a lot of schools, but I guess that's the disappointment, for $80 K and a steep opportunity cost, I am expecting a unique value proposition. I think Cornell is the answer if you believe that Ivy brand is chiefly important or if you are returning to b-school to get a general business education.

Virginia is a very different environment, I was thoroughly impressed with the application process. I think the interview question, "you have 40 minutes, tell me about yourself" is actually a very telling question. It requires candidates to be able to maintain a logical flow, demonstrating where you've come from and where you're going while incorporating while Darden in the answer and in a more tense interview situation. This is a question that might not have been as prepared for and is a far better judge of a candidate's potential to think logically in a pressure situation (just my opinion). Also, the case methodology requires a lot of work, to learn from this methodology, you really need to spend a lot of time reading, sifting through a lot of issues, digesting and reviewing a lot of data and honing in on the important decision-making criteria to make the best possible decision (this I find to be very much like the real business world). However, if the concepts are unfamiliar to you, this can be a very challenging and less rewarding learning style - it's really a matter of what you're looking for. You will get a great education at both, the question is how you are looking to learn. Now, I do think Charlottesville is a more lively town, certainly a very pretty area of the country. Proximity to DC is of little value if you are going into business and seven hours by car to NY does make it limiting (actually I think this is probably a large component of it's current ranking). However the tight-knit community of the Darden alumni appears to make up for a bit of this proximity gap. As I have seen the speed of the alumni networks side by side in action from my colleagues, the Darden alumni network seems to be a bit more productive in helping each other, there just seems to be a bit stronger sense of community. Perhaps this is less of a concern as a NYC resident, so I am biased, but again that's my impression. On the point of banking and consulting, I think you will find both schools have very good representation on wall street and in excellent consultancies, any difference in numbers here really just comes down to the person and not the school (and this quite frankly is largely true of most schools in the top-15 of whichever ranking you look at). It is very hard to look at one school and say one places 25% in banking, the other 30% therefore the 30% school is more of a banking school than the other, these become less statistically significant as you dig into the material behind the data. Lastly, I think I was generally more impressed by the students and faculty I met at Virginia than at Cornell. Again, this is a "feel" point, but the level of poise and professionalism of those I met at Charlottesville just left a greater impression on me than that of Cornell, maybe it was just a bad day in Ithaca, but I really think you need to visit both to make the decision.

This diatribe is a bit of stream of consciousness (some run-ons in there I'm sure), but I thought I would share my impressions for the group. Personally, as an associate in an MC who has conducted cases at Columbia, NYU and Northwestern and someone who is surrounded by HBS, Booth, Kellogg, Columbia and Wharton grads, at this level of business school, it largely comes down to who you are as a person and a professional. There have been years we take more from Darden than Wharton and years we take more from HBS than Booth, as long as we're visiting your school, you've met the "business school caliber" bar, now it's up to you to prove your value one way or another. Ok, I'm sure I have in some way offended many people or inspired hot rages of passion one way or the other, so let the responses flood in. . .cheers!

Best of luck to all in this process and remember - choosing between the University of Virginia and Cornell University is not a predicament, it's a privilege.

ntenzer,

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences. Your comments about meeting the "business school caliber" bar cannot be said loudly enough in this community. In a sea of go-getters, people often feel pressured to choose schools entirely on the basis of ranking or insignificant blips on an employment report.

It sounds like Darden is going to be a great fit for you. Have fun at the country club bootcamp

Hi,

I was in the same position last year and I would be happy to help you out. Please PM me if you are still deciding.

Thanks

Pkit could you elaborate further on what factors made you change your mind?

There are some personal reasons as well as "fit" reasons.


I like Cornell's immersion program.
I do not like overconcentration on one study method.
I like to learn but Darden's curriculum is so intense that students oftentimes do not have sufficient time to dedicate to recruting and other activities.
Location:Cornell is closer to NY than Darden.
Cornell's employment is higher for classes 2009-2010 than Darden's empl.
Ivy league brand. etc.

I was looking at both these schools last year. I believe you can't go wrong either way. I chose Darden because their financial aid
covered the cost of attendance and I personally felt that the people there were more friendlier.

Darden-

One of the most collaborative environments among B-schools
Case-study method: If it works for you, you really learn and remember things much better. Plus classes are fun and very current
Program is more well designed
Can be hectic and sometimes challenging to dedicate enough time to recruiting (esp if you are doing banking). Exam periods are much lighter than normal days.
You can't skip more than 2 classes a term and have to prepare for classes as it contributes to a significant portion of your grade
Excels in consulting careers. Banking is good and marketing can be improved

Cornell-

Good collaborative culture
Ivy League brand - well known in Asia
Best center for investment management and research
Classes are good but not great
Good across careers
You can balance your load depending on your priorities

I would not put too much weight on recruiting stats alone. Some people are picky about their jobs and don't recruit unless they are really passionate about the role. I personally know a guy who pursued a career he was passionate about for 2 years during the program. He could not crack it during that time. However, he started recruiting for consulting seriously after graduation and got an offer with a big 3 firm within a month.

Regarding closeness to NY. It takes 4 hours from Cornell and 6 hours from Darden. Further, people in banking are more grateful when you make the trip from Darden while it is normal if you travel from Ithaca.

Point being - Proximity to NY and recruiting stats are non-core issues.

Look at some of the other things while deciding. Let me know if you have any questions. I was admitted twice to Cornell and once to Darden. I have loads of friends at both schools. Pardon my lack of grammar. I just wanted to get across some points quickly.