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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
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Aj85 wrote:
amritgodofwar wrote:
In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the family, just as it had once been among the Russian aristocracy.
A. just as it had once been among the Russian aristocracy
B. just like it once had been among the Russian aristocracy
C. just as the Russian aristocracy had once done
D. similar to what the Russian aristocracy had done once
E. like what had once been done by the Russian aristocracy


In this sentence two actions are being compared. Action of language being spoken. so LIKE can be eliminated altogether as like is used for comparing nouns. B and E gone. Now between A & C, we see that non- underlined part of sentence is in passive voice. 'french was spoken ' , so the underlined part of sentence should have a similar construction. french was spoken - just as it had once been. Both are in passive , Thus A is correct. Look at C it doesn't emphasis the language but instead emphasises the russian aristocracy and changes the construction to active voice. We can't have two forms of voice in one sentence . so B and D out.


Hi AJ85,
I would like to emphasize that use of Active & passive voice is NOT THE MAIN difference between option A & C.
Option C compares two actions "French was spoken in many Egyptian homes" & "Russian aristocracy has done once" but the comparison does not make any logical sense.
On the contrary option A compares two actions "French was spoken in many Egyptian homes" & "French had once been spoken among Russian aristocracy" , and thus the comparison makes any logical sense.

Even though option A is best among the rest, but i feel the quality of this question is quite POOR for 2 reasons:-
a) Split infinitive is used in option A (Incorrect most of the times)
b) Pronoun "IT" cannot stand for a Clause/action.

Hope it helps.
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
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I chose A - uses as and passive voice as in the main clause

B and E - like should not be used for comparing actions

C and D - active voice is being used
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
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In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the family, just as it had once been among the Russian aristocracy.

A. just as it had once been among the Russian aristocracy -- repetition of verb spoken is elided in second half -- sentence is in passive -- looks ok

B. just like it once had been among the Russian aristocracy -- we can not place a clause after like

C. just as the Russian aristocracy had once done -- sentence is in active voice but main clause in passive voice.

D. similar to what the Russian aristocracy had done once -- active voice -- bad sentence.

E. like what had once been done by the Russian aristocracy -- we can not place clause after like
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
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Here are my two cents on such questions and tough SC questions in general. Those that know their grammar rules will score high enough to crack as high as 75th percentile. However, once you start getting tough SC questions that test both the grammar and specifically the INTENDED MEANING of a sentence is where things get tough. Rather than going by your ear, it is best to consider the two answer choices you are stuck on and evaluate each at a time. If you are having difficulty inferring a meaning from a choice or you feel the meaning conveyed is illogical, then you have given yourself the ability to eliminate an answer choice. In this question, comparisons and ellipses are tested(the omission of one word in A makes the choice sound clunky and weird). Getting these questions right is all about logic and thinking. Don't be a robot and just start eliminating choices blatantly on grammar rules. Combine your understanding of both meaning and grammar to solve these questions. Granted there are some questions that are pretty nasty, if you aren't aiming at pure perfection on Verbal, then don't worry about having to get everything right. Get everything that you CAN get right and just put a bit more effort into thinking.
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the family, just as it had once been among the Russian aristocracy.

why among come with singular noun aristocracy? I reject this option due to misuse of (among) but get wrong answer !!!!!


all sentences with " among " in dic comes with plural noun or nature of plural ! it should be among... aristocracies




among


a‧mong S2 W1 /əˈmʌŋ/ BrE AmE (also a‧mongst /əˈmʌŋst/) preposition
[Language: Old English; Origin: on gemonge, from on + gemong 'crowd']
1. in or through the middle of a group of people or things:
The girl quickly disappeared among the crowd.
I could hear voices coming from somewhere among the bushes.
We walked among the chestnut woods on the mountain slopes.
She began rummaging among the books on her desk. ⇨ ↑between
2. with a particular group of people:
Jim relaxed, knowing he was among friends.
3. used to say that many people in a group have the same feeling or opinion, or that something affects many people in a group:
The problem is causing widespread concern among scientists.
The general opinion among police officers was that the law should be tightened.
The changes will mean 7,000 job losses among railway workers.
4. used to talk about a particular person, thing, or group as belonging to a larger group:
She was the eldest among them.
Innocent civilians were among the casualties.
My grandfather had among his possessions a portrait by Matisse.
Representatives were chosen by the students from among themselves.
5. among other things/places/factors etc used to say that you are only mentioning one or two people or things out of a much larger group:
At the meeting they discussed, among other things, recent events in Japan.
6. if something is divided or shared among a group of people, each person is given a part of it:
A father’s property was divided among his heirs.
7. among yourselves/ourselves/themselves with each other:
The allies found it hard to agree among themselves.
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
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09173140521 wrote:
In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the family, just as it had once been among the Russian aristocracy.

why among come with singular noun aristocracy? I reject this option due to misuse of (among) but get wrong answer !!!!!


all sentences with " among " in dic comes with plural noun or nature of plural ! it should be among... aristocracies

"The Russian aristocracy" is a group of people. So, "among the Russian aristocracy" means "among the people who make up the Russian aristocracy."

Also, be aware that, in order to make Sentence Correction questions challenging, question writers tend to use wording that people will question in correct answers so that correct answers seem a little off. It could very well be that the writer of this question purposely choose to use "among" with the seemingly singular "aristocracy" to make the OA to this question seem incorrect. The takeaway is that, in order to correctly answer Sentence Correction questions consistently, you have to be ready to choose answers in which the language used seems a bit off or pushes the boundaries of what's acceptable.
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
From whatever I have studied, "like" is used to compare.

For example:
His behaviour is very child-like.
She runs like a cheetah.

It is for this reason that I chose option B. Care to shed some light?
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
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aakritibirla wrote:
From whatever I have studied, "like" is used to compare.

For example:
His behaviour is very child-like.
She runs like a cheetah.

It is for this reason that I chose option B. Care to shed some light?

Hi aakritibirla,

The GMAT has (in the past) said that the kind of like we see in this question should be considered a preposition. Prepositions are normally followed by noun phrases or -ing forms. This means that anything other than a noun or an -ing would be incorrect after this kind of like.

1. ... just like it once had been among the Russian aristocracy... ← There is a full subject-verb combination after like here.

I consider this a red flag (a sign that an option that uses like like this is most likely incorrect), but I don't see this as an "absolute" rule.
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the family, just as it had once been among the Russian aristocracy.

(A) just as it had once been among the Russian aristocracy
(B) just like it once had been among the Russian aristocracy
(C) just as the Russian aristocracy had once done
(D) similar to what the Russian aristocracy had done once
(E) like what had once been done by the Russian aristocracy


GMATNinja

I think i am lost here as to how to approach this question... my understanding of the sentence is that we want to convey a similarity between the upper class Egyptian homes and the Russian aristocracy....

so between A and C

A - In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the family, just as French had once been among the Russian aristocracy.
C - In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the family, just as the Russian aristocracy had once done.

Thanks,
R
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
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ritzyravin wrote:
In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the family, just as it had once been among the Russian aristocracy.

(A) just as it had once been among the Russian aristocracy
(B) just like it once had been among the Russian aristocracy
(C) just as the Russian aristocracy had once done
(D) similar to what the Russian aristocracy had done once
(E) like what had once been done by the Russian aristocracy


GMATNinja

I think i am lost here as to how to approach this question... my understanding of the sentence is that we want to convey a similarity between the upper class Egyptian homes and the Russian aristocracy....

so between A and C

A - In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the family, just as French had once been among the Russian aristocracy.
C - In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the family, just as the Russian aristocracy had once done.

Thanks,
R

As MartyTargetTestPrep pointed out, the difference between (A) and (C) comes down to the nitty-gritty details of the comparison. If you water it down to "a similarity between the upper class Egyptian homes and the Russian aristocracy," you're going to miss the finer nuances in the meaning of each option.

Take a look at his post here and let us know if you have further questions!
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ExpertsGlobal GMATNinja how can we be sure that the it in A, refers to French and not family?
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
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aditijain1507 wrote:
how can we be sure that the it in A, refers to French and not family?

Hi aditijain1507.

We can be sure because "family" would not be spoken among the Russian aristocracy.
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
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aditijain1507 wrote:
ExpertsGlobal GMATNinja how can we be sure that the it in A, refers to French and not family?

Context! For one, as Marty notes, there's no other antecedent that could make sense here, other than French.

Notice, also, how the two clauses work together: "French was spoken... just as it had once been." It makes perfect sense for the second clause to give us additional information about French, which was the subject of the first clause. If you saw "Tim did X, just as he had once done Y," you wouldn't struggle too much to see that "he" refers to "Tim," right?

And generally, if you're not 100% sure about what a pronoun is referring to, but there's something that could make sense, you don't want to treat it as a concrete error.

I hope that helps!
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
Hi Experts,

In comparison questions such as this one in which "just as/as" is used to compare actions, can an action in active voice be compared with an action in passive voice. If no, will this make Option C incorrect as the comparison is between "French was spoken" and "The Russian aristocracy had spoken French"?

Thanks
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
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KittyDoodles wrote:
Hi Experts,

In comparison questions such as this one in which "just as/as" is used to compare actions, can an action in active voice be compared with an action in passive voice. If no, will this make Option C incorrect as the comparison is between "French was spoken" and "The Russian aristocracy had spoken French"?

Thanks

It won't ever make sense for a "just as" construction to use the active voice on one side of the "just as" and the passive voice on the other side because a passive voice action is never "just as" an active voice action.

So, the fact that the "just as" construction in the (C) version uses the passive voice before "just as" and the active voice after it is a clear sign that something is wrong with (C).
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
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KittyDoodles wrote:
Hi Experts,

In comparison questions such as this one in which "just as/as" is used to compare actions, can an action in active voice be compared with an action in passive voice. If no, will this make Option C incorrect as the comparison is between "French was spoken" and "The Russian aristocracy had spoken French"?

Thanks


Hello KittyDoodles,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, as MartyTargetTestPrep has written, a switch between active and passive voice when comparing actions will distort the intended meaning of the sentence and lead to an illogical comparison.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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Re: In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the [#permalink]
MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
Key to correctly answering this question is differentiating between choice (A) and choice (C).

Considered within the context of the sentence, choice (A) may sound a little better than choice (C) does, but in order to consistently answer SC questions correctly, we have to go beyond using the way the choices sound, especially as, in higher level questions, incorrect answers are often written to sound correct and correct answers are written to sound incorrect.

It may also be tempting to decide that (A) is better because it matches the preceding clause by using the passive voice. While that take is related to why (A) is better, it isn't completely valid, as active and passive can be correctly used in different clauses in a sentence and even within the same clause.

Consider the following perfectly correct example.

    Jenna was hired on Tuesday, and she started working on Wednesday. - passive then active

So, what truly makes (A) better than (C)?

Meaning.

Let's look at the sentence created via the use of (C).

    In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the family, just as the Russian aristocracy had once done.

Let's think about what that version conveys. We can cross off the opening modifier to make the sentence simpler and, in doing so, make the issue clearer.

    In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the family, just as the Russian aristocracy had once done.

Notice that the sentence says, essentially, "French was spoken ... just as the Russian aristocracy had ... done."

It becomes clear that this version illogically compares what French "was" with what the Russian aristocracy "had ... done."

Moreover, if we ask ourselves what the Russian aristocracy "had ... done," the only verb that "had ... done" could refer to is "was spoken."

So, let's substitute "was spoken" for "had ... done." We get "French was spoken ... just as the Russian aristocracy was spoken."

We can see that this version seems to convey the nonsensical meaning that French was spoken within the family just as the Russian aristocracy was once spoken within the family.

So, the (C) version is an illogical mess.

Now, let's look at the sentence created via the use of (A).

    In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the family, just as it had once been among the Russian aristocracy.

This version conveys the logical meaning that French was spoken within the family, just as French had once been spoken among the Russian aristocracy.

That difference in meaning is what makes (A) better than (C).



MartyTargetTestPrep I have two doubts in your explanation

MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
1. So, let's substitute "was spoken" for "had ... done." We get "French was spoken ... just as the Russian aristocracy was spoken."


Shouldn't the construction be
French was spoken within the family, just as the Russian aristocracy had once done
French was spoke within the family, just as the Russian aristocracy had once spoken (french).
You have eliminated the use of "had once" in your explanation and I feel, if we use it, the meaning stands, can you please correct me

Doubt 2 :

Now, let's look at the sentence created via the use of (A).

MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
In many upper class Egyptian homes, French was spoken within the family, just as it had once been among the Russian aristocracy


I feel it should have been,
French was spoken within the family, just as french it had once been among the Russian aristocracy.
french was spoke within the family is compared with French had once been among the Russian aristocracy ? Not sure what it means

Can you please correct me
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