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RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas

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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 14 Sep 2014, 03:06
Using of "just" was just not so easy to decide! Waiting for the answer.

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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 14 Sep 2014, 03:20
i found it easy though not sure about my answer.completed in 55 sec.

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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 14 Sep 2014, 04:44
Genuine appreciation for this question as it delves much into meaning and tense sequence !

However, I noticed a funny POE :-D -
2 out of 5 options are identical.
( I guess I shouldn't name those as it might go against quiz rules. )

What is more funny is that no one noticed it till now :-P
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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 14 Sep 2014, 07:31
with just or without just! the meaning matters.

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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 14 Sep 2014, 14:14
souvik101990 wrote:
In 1971, pioneering journalist Helen Thomas, who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member, delivered an inspirational speech to the Club’s male members when they gathered to congratulate her after the votes were counted.

(A) who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member

(B) whom the National Press Club just elected as its first female member

(C) who had just been elected by the National Press Club as its first female member

(D) whom the National Press Club elected as its first female member

(E) who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member

Day 5 Question of the Verbal Contest: Race Against the GMAT Club Timer
Please make sure to post a brief reply without revealing your solution to enter the contest!

This is a tricky question indeed. I was stuck between 2 probable answer choices. Well I hope I am correct.

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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 15 Sep 2014, 01:23
Looks to be easy...Hope I got it right!!

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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 15 Sep 2014, 06:46
seemed an easy one ! lets see if i got it right

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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 15 Sep 2014, 11:16

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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 15 Sep 2014, 12:02
I chose whom, the difference is between "just" and no just. I pick the one with no just as I think just need to come with has... sth =P

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RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 15 Sep 2014, 12:18
damn I dont remember if I picked the right answer
need to get home and check my notes...:)))

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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 15 Sep 2014, 22:25
Good question Souvik.
Got this one wrong though :(. Who vs whom, 'Just ' , pronoun and tense.

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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 17 Sep 2014, 07:05
Is D wrong because of missing "had" before elected and is "who" in C right because of passive structure of modifier sentence?
Experts please confirm.

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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 17 Sep 2014, 07:06
Is D wrong because of missing "had" before elected and is "who" in C right because of passive structure of modifier sentence?
Experts please confirm.

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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 19 Sep 2014, 02:23
souvik101990 wrote:
In 1971, pioneering journalist Helen Thomas, who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member, delivered an inspirational speech to the Club’s male members when they gathered to congratulate her after the votes were counted.

(A) who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member

(B) whom the National Press Club just elected as its first female member

(C) who had just been elected by the National Press Club as its first female member

(D) whom the National Press Club elected as its first female member

(E) who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member

Day 5 Question of the Verbal Contest: Race Against the GMAT Club Timer
Please make sure to post a brief reply without revealing your solution to enter the contest!


would you please provide the OE.

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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 19 Sep 2014, 05:56
Good question. :) I am sure i got it right.

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RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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Quote:
In 1971, pioneering journalist Helen Thomas, who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member, delivered an inspirational speech to the Club’s male members when they gathered to congratulate her after the votes were counted.

(A) who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member

(B) whom the National Press Club just elected as its first female member

(C) who had just been elected by the National Press Club as its first female member

(D) whom the National Press Club elected as its first female member

(E) who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member


A lot of students debate on the word "just" or the tense of this question. But this is not necessary at all to solve this really nice question.

Keep in mind qhen you read the sentence who is the subject ?? a female -----> so who

Who then delivered a nice speech ?? the same female. As such, the same female must have a passive role: she must be elected by X and NOT the other way around: she undergoes the action by X

Therefore, in 20 seconds you can solve this question without notice anything else.

An even faster approach is this: the club can not bring with it the possessive their, we must have its. So A and E are out.

B C and D: the subject is her, so who . C is left and must be the right answer

Hope this help
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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 08 Oct 2014, 04:03
carcass wrote:
Quote:
In 1971, pioneering journalist Helen Thomas, who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member, delivered an inspirational speech to the Club’s male members when they gathered to congratulate her after the votes were counted.

(A) who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member

(B) whom the National Press Club just elected as its first female member

(C) who had just been elected by the National Press Club as its first female member

(D) whom the National Press Club elected as its first female member

(E) who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member


A lot of students debate on the word "just" or the tense of this question. But this is not necessary at all to solve this really nice question.

Keep in mind qhen you read the sentence who is the subject ?? a female -----> so who

Who then delivered a nice speech ?? the same female. As such, the same female must have a passive role: she must be elected by X and NOT the other way around: she undergoes the action by X

Therefore, in 20 seconds you can solve this question without notice anything else.

An even faster approach is this: the club can not bring with it the possessive their, we must have its. So A and E are out.

B C and D: the subject is her, so who . C is left and must be the right answer

Hope this help


hi ..u gave very nice approach +Kudos.
can you please explain the concept of when to use Who vs Whom ?..

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RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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carcass wrote:
Quote:
In 1971, pioneering journalist Helen Thomas, who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member, delivered an inspirational speech to the Club’s male members when they gathered to congratulate her after the votes were counted.

(A) who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member

(B) whom the National Press Club just elected as its first female member

(C) who had just been elected by the National Press Club as its first female member

(D) whom the National Press Club elected as its first female member

(E) who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member


A lot of students debate on the word "just" or the tense of this question. But this is not necessary at all to solve this really nice question.

Keep in mind qhen you read the sentence who is the subject ?? a female -----> so who

Who then delivered a nice speech ?? the same female. As such, the same female must have a passive role: she must be elected by X and NOT the other way around: she undergoes the action by X

Therefore, in 20 seconds you can solve this question without notice anything else.

An even faster approach is this: the club can not bring with it the possessive their, we must have its. So A and E are out.

B C and D: the subject is her, so who . C is left and must be the right answer

Hope this help


Hey carcass,

(Bumping in!)..I personally do not agree that C is the right answer. And even if it were then definitely not for the reasons quoted.

1. Let’s consider a few cases from our very own GC Ultimate Grammar book. (pg. 107)

Robin Williams is funny. The world adores Robin Williams.
Combined: Robin Williams, whom the world adores, is funny.
Alternate: Robin Williams, who is adored by the world, is funny.

The girl is pretty. Jerry likes the girl.
Combined: The girl, whom Jerry likes, is pretty.
Alternate: The girl, who is liked by Jerry, is pretty.

Upon analyzing, it can be seen, that though perhaps correct grammatically, the alternate forms (formed as per quoted explanation) are definitely not as stylistically superior as the combined forms (as stated in the GC book).Point is that D cannot be ruled out on grounds of employing ‘whom’ over ‘who’ (in this question). A subjective issue, it is rather a matter of choice (concision in GMAT) to opt for either of the two forms in informal language in a similarly structured sentence.

Going ahead, as rightly pointed out by you, Thomas is undergoing action by the Club, a fact that very conspicuously implies that Thomas is actually the object of the action verb ‘elected’ (performed by the Club) in the intermediate independent clause. Break the sentence and it should become clear.

A. In 1971, pioneering journalist Helen Thomas delivered an inspirational speech to the Club’s male members when they gathered to congratulate her after the votes were counted.
B. The National Press Club had just elected (whom? =object of ‘elected’) Thomas as its first female member.

2. I guess, the usage of ‘had’ to imply past perfect in C is also redundant. The fact that Thomas delivered speech AFTER the votes were counted is itself enough to justify the occurrence of she being elected BEFORE delivering the speech. The correct sentence could do without 'had'.

According to me, these considerations make D a better GMAT candidate than C.

Shall be glad to know your thoughts though….

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RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 28 Oct 2014, 03:13
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itzmyzone911 wrote:
carcass wrote:
Quote:
In 1971, pioneering journalist Helen Thomas, who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member, delivered an inspirational speech to the Club’s male members when they gathered to congratulate her after the votes were counted.

(A) who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member

(B) whom the National Press Club just elected as its first female member

(C) who had just been elected by the National Press Club as its first female member

(D) whom the National Press Club elected as its first female member

(E) who the National Press Club had just elected as their first female member


A lot of students debate on the word "just" or the tense of this question. But this is not necessary at all to solve this really nice question.

Keep in mind qhen you read the sentence who is the subject ?? a female -----> so who

Who then delivered a nice speech ?? the same female. As such, the same female must have a passive role: she must be elected by X and NOT the other way around: she undergoes the action by X

Therefore, in 20 seconds you can solve this question without notice anything else.

An even faster approach is this: the club can not bring with it the possessive their, we must have its. So A and E are out.

B C and D: the subject is her, so who . C is left and must be the right answer

Hope this help


Hey carcass,

(Bumping in!)..I personally do not agree that C is the right answer. And even if it were then definitely not for the reasons quoted.

1. Let’s consider a few cases from our very own GC Ultimate Grammar book. (pg. 107)

Robin Williams is funny. The world adores Robin Williams.
Combined: Robin Williams, whom the world adores, is funny.
Alternate: Robin Williams, who is adored by the world, is funny.

The girl is pretty. Jerry likes the girl.
Combined: The girl, whom Jerry likes, is pretty.
Alternate: The girl, who is liked by Jerry, is pretty.

Upon analyzing, it can be seen, that though perhaps correct grammatically, the alternate forms (formed as per quoted explanation) are definitely not as stylistically superior as the combined forms (as stated in the GC book).Point is that D cannot be ruled out on grounds of employing ‘whom’ over ‘who’ (in this question). A subjective issue, it is rather a matter of choice (concision in GMAT) to opt for either of the two forms in informal language in a similarly structured sentence.

Going ahead, as rightly pointed out by you, Thomas is undergoing action by the Club, a fact that very conspicuously implies that Thomas is actually the object of the action verb ‘elected’ (performed by the Club) in the intermediate independent clause. Break the sentence and it should become clear.

A. In 1971, pioneering journalist Helen Thomas delivered an inspirational speech to the Club’s male members when they gathered to congratulate her after the votes were counted.
B. The National Press Club had just elected (whom? =object of ‘elected’) Thomas as its first female member.

2. I guess, the usage of ‘had’ to imply past perfect in C is also redundant. The fact that Thomas delivered speech AFTER the votes were counted is itself enough to justify the occurrence of she being elected BEFORE delivering the speech. The correct sentence could do without 'had'.

According to me, these considerations make D a better GMAT candidate than C.

Shall be glad to know your thoughts though….


In full agreement with itzmyzone911 and I also DO NOT think that this is regarding the use of "who" vs "whom". Also , as per the timeline provided , the first logical action would be that votes' counting ,then Helen thomas was elected and after that she delivered the famous speech. If we mind this timeline, then is should be that the votes HAD BEEN counted (only after complete counting can she be elected) and then she was elected and finally delivered her speech .
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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas [#permalink]

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New post 28 Oct 2014, 06:32
Agree with itsmyzone.... was that the OA? who, whom explanation not very clear.

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Re: RAGCT Day 5: pioneering journalist Helen Thomas   [#permalink] 28 Oct 2014, 06:32

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