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# Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the siz

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MBA Section Director
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the siz [#permalink]

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22 Sep 2012, 13:42
methevoid wrote:
souvik101990 wrote:
Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the size of the 6-mile-wide asteroid that eradicated the dinosaurs has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus is evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth.

(A) has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus is
(B) has been dated at 3.47 billion years old and thus
(C) have been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus are
(D) have been dated as being 3.47 billion years old and thus
(E) have been dated at 3.47 billion years old and thus are

As rightly written by @Archillees - SV Agreement error >

Also to note is Difference between C and E
C uses subjunctive form - "to be" which is not required here.
E uses correct idiom "dated at"

Hey,
"to be" is neither used as a command subjunctive nor used as a hypothetical subjunctive.
For them you need special command verbs like demand, order, require etc.
They are popularly known as "bossy verbs"
Hypothetical subjunctive, as the name suggests, uses hypothetical constructions such as "were", "would" etc.

Souvik
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the siz [#permalink]

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22 Sep 2012, 15:51
Archit143 wrote:
Hey Souvik
Your reply was really nice one but couldnt get it can you explain in simpler terms i know what you have explained is simple, but i did not get that

Hey Archit,
Welcome to gmatclub.
Now before me going on with what you asked for, can you explain what you didn't understand?
If you didn't understand the command or hypothetical subjunctive, then I could break it down for you.

Go through the MGMAT SC for subjunctive and also this particular article.
If you are still having issues, come back here and I would be happy to help you out.

http://gmat-grammar.blogspot.in/2006/06 ... verbs.html
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the siz [#permalink]

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10 Oct 2012, 00:34
1
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Expert's post
Concept tested: Idioms, SV agreement
Difficulty Level: Moderate
Illustration: “Rock samples” is the subject for the verb “has been dated”. Rock samples must take a plural verb.
So A and B can be instantly eliminated.
Dated at is the correct idiomatic construction.
So C and D are also eliminated
E is the correct answer choice

Tip: Though “dated at” is preferred to “dated to be”, the same construction is not necessarily true for “estimated at” and “estimated to be” construction.
“Estimated at” should be followed by a noun because “at” is a preposition.
E.g: The molten iron is estimated at 1500 degrees Celsius.
“Estimated to be” generally follows phrases
E.g: The fossil is estimated to be 1000 years old.

This is NOT a specific English rule, but the way GMAT wants things to be
Support is given by:
In OG 12, Q 27 of SC, it says that the correct idiom is "estimated to be".
However this question appears in gmatprep
"With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Farenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water though to be frozen from top to bottom."

We can see from the non underlined part that "estimated at" is also as correct idiom.
Takeaway: Same rules do not apply to "estimated to be" and "dated to be"
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about [#permalink]

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18 Sep 2013, 01:58
dvinoth86 wrote:
sravanth wrote:
Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the size of the 6-mile-wide asteroid that eradicated the dinosaurs has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus is evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth.

(A) has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus is
(B) has been dated at 3.47 billion years old and thus
(C) have been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus are
(D) have been dated as being 3.47 billion years old and thus
(E) have been dated at 3.47 billion years old and thus are

Rock samples ---> plural subject. hence has been is incorrect and have been in correct.
Eliminate A and B.

Dated at is the correct idiom. hence E.

Removing all the flabs i.e. here is the main sentence.

Rock samples ....[taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the size of the 6-mile-wide asteroid tha......]has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus is evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth

Rock samples is plural subject hence , 'Have' & 'are' required, dated to be - incorrect idiom usage.
Hence A, B eliminated
C Dated to be is wron indiom
D verb is missing

E - corrects Sub- verb agreement error and Idiom usage

Concept tested : SVA, IDIOM

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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about [#permalink]

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26 Sep 2013, 10:42
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Bumping for review and further discussion*.

*New project from GMAT Club!!! Check HERE

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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid [#permalink]

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07 Oct 2013, 12:29
Hi!

I'd like to point out a few things in the above Question/piece and hopefully answer your thoughts along the way :-

1) The quoted text is not "wholy" a modifier; The non-bold part is the modifier while the bold part, as you can see, is the actual verb of the above stem
Quote:
about twice the size of the 6-mile-wide asteroid that eradicated the dinosaurs has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old

2) Again, the above bold part of the stem is incorrect in its given state - "Rock Samples.." + "has been dated" --> Plural noun & singular verb ERROR

3) Somewhere in the GMAT SC portions, I've come across this point of WISDOM that GMAT test makers generally do not test the punctultion and other stuff (commas, etc) and only test the "semi-colon" " ;" if at all

I hope I've shed some insight!
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid [#permalink]

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11 Oct 2013, 07:55
Mission2012 wrote:
Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the size of the 6-mile-wide asteroid that eradicated the dinosaurs has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus is evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth.

The modifier in bold red it modifying - remains of asteroid or asteroid. Also is this modified "adjective phase". If so should it have a comma before it or not?

Hi,

Note that the highlighted portion doesn’t entirely consist of a single modifier.

I suggest you analyze the sentence structure to understand the role played by each element.

Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the size of the 6-mile-wide asteroid
has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and
thus is evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth.

The highlighted modifier presents a comparison with another “asteroid”.

So it would be logical to presume that the entire modifier is modifying “asteroid”, not “remains”.

Since this modifier is used to modify a noun, we can call it a “Noun Modifier”.

Observe that the modifier is in the non-underlined portion of the official sentence and so it should be correct as such.

Of course, enclosing it in a comma pair won’t make it incorrect. However, it would be unnecessary.

Hope this helps!

Regards,
Krishna
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid [#permalink]

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12 Oct 2013, 21:28
1
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egmat wrote:
Mission2012 wrote:
Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the size of the 6-mile-wide asteroid that eradicated the dinosaurs has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus is evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth.

The modifier in bold red it modifying - remains of asteroid or asteroid. Also is this modified "adjective phase". If so should it have a comma before it or not?

Hi,

Note that the highlighted portion doesn’t entirely consist of a single modifier.

I suggest you analyze the sentence structure to understand the role played by each element.

Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the size of the 6-mile-wide asteroid
has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and
thus is evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth.

The highlighted modifier presents a comparison with another “asteroid”.

So it would be logical to presume that the entire modifier is modifying “asteroid”, not “remains”.

Since this modifier is used to modify a noun, we can call it a “Noun Modifier”.

Observe that the modifier is in the non-underlined portion of the official sentence and so it should be correct as such.

Of course, enclosing it in a comma pair won’t make it incorrect. However, it would be unnecessary.

Hope this helps!

Regards,
Krishna

Hi Krishna,

Could you please assess my structural analysis of the sentence -
"Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the size of the 6-mile-wide asteroid that eradicated the dinosaurs has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus is evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth."

As there is a comprison is this sentence between two asteroid, i have marked two asteroids as asteroid 1 and asteroid 2.

Rock samples - Subject
taken from the remains of an asteroid1 - Noun modifier (type past participle) modifying Rock samples
about twice the size of the 6-mile-wide asteroid2 - Noun modifier modifying asteroid1
that eradicated the dinosaurs - Noun modifier modifying asteroid 2
has been dated to be (verb)
3.7 billion years old (object)
and thus (coordinator)
evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth (subject)

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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid [#permalink]

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12 Oct 2013, 23:37
Confused..should it not be: "have been dated" and thus "are evidence", since the subject seems to be rock samples, which is plural.

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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about [#permalink]

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06 Jan 2014, 05:42
ardhenduchasing wrote:
Appreciate if anybody can please suggest me the source of most comprehensive Idiom list.
Somehow I have got lot of lists but not sure which one is best suited

Thanks

GMAC has moved away from testing SC solely on the basis of idioms. But still, you can go through the lists (no harm)

Please complete the below one and then proceed to others.

http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/gmat-idiom-ebook/

gmat-idioms-comprehensive-list-of-gmat-idioms-80342.html
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about [#permalink]

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13 Jul 2014, 23:55
Rock samples -subject so have

"dated at" is correct idiom so E is good
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about [#permalink]

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14 Jul 2014, 02:29
The correct idiom is 'dated at.

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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the siz [#permalink]

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01 Sep 2014, 20:58
A,B,D out for singular "is" for samples.
C out for "dated to be idiom"
E - dated at - correct usage and OA .
Hope it helps
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the siz [#permalink]

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10 Oct 2014, 21:39
(A) has beendated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus is - Singular usage
(B) has beendated at 3.47 billion years old and thus - Singular usage
(C) have beendated to be3.47 billion years old and thus are - Not so correct
(D) have been datedas being 3.47 billion years old and thus - usage of being wrong
(E) have beendated at 3.47 billion years old and thus are - correct usage - dated at
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04 Dec 2014, 13:12

I am very confused on the usage of the idiom DATED AT vs DATED TO BE,

Although, i thought that DATED AT was prefered on the Gmat, I've seen both of them as right answer !!!(see link from gmatprep test2 qn 2)
I am a non native and it confuses me,
Is there a tip to choose correctly beetween the two ?
Do you have any link to an discussion, expert explanation, or else on that ?

Thank you very much !
Quentin

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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about [#permalink]

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01 Mar 2015, 23:59
Dated at is the correct idiom.

Wish dated at was replaced with estimated to be...
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about [#permalink]

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18 Mar 2015, 13:32
OG explanation for choice C says: ' the conjunction and thus should be followed by a verb'.

I am wondering why do we necessarily need a verb after 'and thus'. Can't we think of 'have been' as the verb of the 'and thus'?!

... have been dated at ... and thus [have been: implied] evidence

Is there also a tense problem?

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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about [#permalink]

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19 Mar 2015, 03:43
apolo wrote:
OG explanation for choice C says: ' the conjunction and thus should be followed by a verb'.

I think you are referring to choice B, because choice C already has a verb "are" after "thus"

Quote:
I am wondering why do we necessarily need a verb after 'and thus'. Can't we think of 'have been' as the verb of the 'and thus'?!

... have been dated at ... and thus [have been: implied] evidence

Is there also a tense problem?

Yes, I believe that in that case there would indeed be a tense problem, because we need to use "simple present", since this is applicable even now, because these "rock samples" still "are" evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth.

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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about [#permalink]

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19 Mar 2015, 04:30
VerbalHow wrote:
apolo wrote:
OG explanation for choice C says: ' the conjunction and thus should be followed by a verb'.

I think you are referring to choice B, because choice C already has a verb "are" after "thus"

Quote:
I am wondering why do we necessarily need a verb after 'and thus'. Can't we think of 'have been' as the verb of the 'and thus'?!

... have been dated at ... and thus [have been: implied] evidence

Is there also a tense problem?

Yes, I believe that in that case there would indeed be a tense problem, because we need to use "simple present", since this is applicable even now, because these "rock samples" still "are" evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth.

Sorry. Actually I am referring to Choice D, which has the plural verb.

Apart from tense problem, OG says that we need a verb. But why 'have been' can not perform as the verb for this part? Perhaps because then the whole verb ' have been dated' should be the implied verb for the second part.

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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about [#permalink]

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19 Mar 2015, 06:24
apolo wrote:
Sorry. Actually I am referring to Choice D, which has the plural verb.

Apart from tense problem, OG says that we need a verb. But why 'have been' can not perform as the verb for this part? Perhaps because then the whole verb ' have been dated' should be the implied verb for the second part.

Same thing. "have been evidence" would be present perfect and incorrect here. It should be simple present ("are").

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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about   [#permalink] 19 Mar 2015, 06:24

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