GMAT Question of the Day - Daily to your Mailbox; hard ones only

It is currently 21 Nov 2019, 13:50

Close

GMAT Club Daily Prep

Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.

Close

Request Expert Reply

Confirm Cancel

Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a

  new topic post reply Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics  
Author Message
TAGS:

Hide Tags

Find Similar Topics 
Magoosh GMAT Instructor
User avatar
G
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 4468
Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 21 Mar 2017, 17:00
LakerFan24 wrote:
With all due respect, I've read your entire post looking for a direct answer to my question and was unable to find one. To reiterate, if you told me to find a canal that is 40ft wide AND 12 ft deep, and then later you tell me to find another canal that is 40ft wide OR 12ft deep, there is absolutely no way I could find one canal satisfies both of your requirements. In the end, I would find one canal for each of your 2 conditions, leaving you with a total of two different canals. This is why I say the meaning changed.

Does my argument make sense?

Dear LakerFan24,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

I see now. You misunderstand the word "or" itself. See this post:
The Word “Or” in GMAT Math

You see, in most ordinary colloquial speech, the word "or" is used as the exclusive or (written XOR in logic)
P XOR Q means P by itself or Q by itself but definitely not both together and definitely not neither

In all of mathematics on planet Earth, and through the GMAT, the word "or" is used exclusively as the inclusive or; in logic and mathematics, this is represented by the ordinary word "or."
P or Q mean P by itself or Q by itself or PQ together but definitely not neither.

Thus, in the logical use of the word, I would be an example of both
(a) a man who is a college graduate AND a NY Mets fan
(b) a man who is a college graduate OR a NY Mets fan
I am definitely not an example of
(c) a man who is a college graduate XOR a NY Mets fan
In fact, by definitely, any person in (c) could not be in (a), and vice versa. All true, but wherever "or" appears on the GMAT or in any math book on the planet, it never never never means XOR. On the GMAT, OR is always inclusive, and (a) is a strict logical subset of (b).

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
_________________
Mike McGarry
Magoosh Test Prep


Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire. — William Butler Yeats (1865 – 1939)
Manager
Manager
avatar
G
Joined: 26 Dec 2015
Posts: 233
Location: United States (CA)
Concentration: Finance, Strategy
WE: Investment Banking (Venture Capital)
Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 21 Mar 2017, 17:17
mikemcgarry wrote:
LakerFan24 wrote:
With all due respect, I've read your entire post looking for a direct answer to my question and was unable to find one. To reiterate, if you told me to find a canal that is 40ft wide AND 12 ft deep, and then later you tell me to find another canal that is 40ft wide OR 12ft deep, there is absolutely no way I could find one canal satisfies both of your requirements. In the end, I would find one canal for each of your 2 conditions, leaving you with a total of two different canals. This is why I say the meaning changed.

Does my argument make sense?

Dear LakerFan24,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

I see now. You misunderstand the word "or" itself. See this post:
The Word “Or” in GMAT Math

You see, in most ordinary colloquial speech, the word "or" is used as the exclusive or (written XOR in logic)
P XOR Q means P by itself or Q by itself but definitely not both together and definitely not neither

In all of mathematics on planet Earth, and through the GMAT, the word "or" is used exclusively as the inclusive or; in logic and mathematics, this is represented by the ordinary word "or."
P or Q mean P by itself or Q by itself or PQ together but definitely not neither.

Thus, in the logical use of the word, I would be an example of both
(a) a man who is a college graduate AND a NY Mets fan
(b) a man who is a college graduate OR a NY Mets fan
I am definitely not an example of
(c) a man who is a college graduate XOR a NY Mets fan
In fact, by definitely, any person in (c) could not be in (a), and vice versa. All true, but wherever "or" appears on the GMAT or in any math book on the planet, it never never never means XOR. On the GMAT, OR is always inclusive, and (a) is a strict logical subset of (b).

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)



Ah - completely understand. I didn't really think about "exclusive" or "inclusive" or, but you're right. I feel like in Probability problems, the "inclusive" or can be highlighted, whereas if someone says "Mike, you won a new car OR a new house", the "exclusive" or is taken into effect.

Now to clarify -- you're saying the "inclusive" version of "or" occurs on both the Quant AND Verbal sections? So every time I see an "or" on the GMAT, I am to assume the inclusive property?
Magoosh GMAT Instructor
User avatar
G
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 4468
Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 22 Mar 2017, 10:16
LakerFan24 wrote:
Ah - completely understand. I didn't really think about "exclusive" or "inclusive" or, but you're right. I feel like in Probability problems, the "inclusive" or can be highlighted, whereas if someone says "Mike, you won a new car OR a new house", the "exclusive" or is taken into effect.

Now to clarify -- you're saying the "inclusive" version of "or" occurs on both the Quant AND Verbal sections? So every time I see an "or" on the GMAT, I am to assume the inclusive property?

Dear LakerFan24,

My friend, I'm happy to respond. :-)

Yes, in spoken language, the word "or" often means the exclusive "or"--especially when emotional inflection lands on that word! (I'll let you think about examples in emotionally charged interpersonal situations!)

On the GMAT Quant (and conventionally through mathematics in general), the word "or" is always inclusive. To be consistent--and the GMAT is nothing if not logically consistent!--if the unadorned word "or" appears on the Verbal or IR or even the AWA, the GMAT always would intend it as the inclusive "or." If, under some circumstances they intended the exclusive "or," they would have to spell that out explicitly (e.g. "P or Q individually, but not both together"). You are 100% safe if you assume, barring explicit language to the contrary, that every "or" you see on the GMAT is inclusive.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
_________________
Mike McGarry
Magoosh Test Prep


Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire. — William Butler Yeats (1865 – 1939)
Retired Moderator
User avatar
P
Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 917
Location: India
Concentration: Finance, Entrepreneurship
GPA: 3.5
GMAT ToolKit User
Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 17 Jul 2017, 11:55
Although mikemcgarry clearly rules on this question with some brilliant answers out there. I would like to add a quick note from my side.

Mike I know you have clarified the confusion between "and" and "or" I am still not getting it completely, may be because it's just the way, we non-natives have been using till date.

Coming back to the question. Let's begin the answer analysis.

A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected

- ",but it ran" is illogical and hence the sentence is not parallel with the modifier "Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep"

B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected

- CORRECT
- Usage of verb "connected" is correct


C. It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting

- Missing verb as the word "connecting" is used, making the sentence fragment.

D. The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected

- usage of "which" is ambigous

E. The Erie Canal, seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, connecting

- Missing verb as the word "connecting" is used, making the sentence fragment.

Hence, Answer is B

Did you like the answer? Kudos :good
_________________
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."

Best AWA Template: https://gmatclub.com/forum/how-to-get-6-0-awa-my-guide-64327.html#p470475
Mannheim Thread Master
User avatar
S
Status: It's now or never
Joined: 10 Feb 2017
Posts: 176
Location: India
GMAT 1: 650 Q40 V39
GPA: 3
WE: Consulting (Consulting)
GMAT ToolKit User
Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 14 Sep 2017, 13:45
Although "B" is a correct choice. I wanted to know if someone else can throw a few convincing points about WHY A and C are incorrect? Thanks.
_________________
2017-2018 MBA Deadlines

Threadmaster for B-school Discussions
Class of 2019: Mannheim Business School
Class 0f 2020: HHL Leipzig
e-GMAT Representative
User avatar
P
Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Posts: 2916
Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 14 Sep 2017, 14:17
AnubhavK wrote:
Although "B" is a correct choice. I wanted to know if someone else can throw a few convincing points about WHY A and C are incorrect? Thanks.



Hello AnubhavK,

I will be glad to help you out with one. :-)

Let's take a look at Choice A:

Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected

This choice is incorrect for two reasons:

i. The sentence presents two features of Erie canal that should be parallel to each other - the width and depth of the canal and the length or the extent of stretch of the canal. Although logically parallel, the two features Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York are grammatically not parallel because the former is a phrase while the latter is a clause.

ii. Comma + but ids followed by an independent clause it ran... which is connected to another independent clause the Erie Canal connected... by just a comma. This structure is not grammatical.


Now let's take a look at Choice C:

It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting

This choice is also incorrect for two reason:

i. There is no verb for the subject the Erie Canal.

ii. Use of connector and instead of but takes away the intended contrast mentioned in the original sentence.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
_________________
e-GMAT Representative
User avatar
P
Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Posts: 2916
Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 14 Sep 2017, 14:42
ydmuley wrote:
Although mikemcgarry clearly rules on this question with some brilliant answers out there. I would like to add a quick note from my side.

Mike I know you have clarified the confusion between "and" and "or" I am still not getting it completely, may be because it's just the way, we non-natives have been using till date.




Hello ydmuley,

I would like to present my two cents on the usage of and Vs. but in this official sentence. :-)

The sentence presents a few features of the Erie Canal. This canal ran 363 miles across the upstate New York. But it is not imperative that the canal was 40 feet wide AND 12 feet deep at the same time all across the stretch. At some places it were 40 feet wide, and some places it was not. Similarly, at some places it was 12 feet deep, but not that deep at most of the places.


So it is not that the Erie Canal was seldom 40 deep wide and 12 feet deep at the same time as conveyed by the usage of and. These two conditions did not occur together. It's not that where the canal was 40 feet wide, it was 12 feet deep also. It was any one condition all along the stretch. Hence, use of or makes more sense in the context of this sentence.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
_________________
Manager
Manager
User avatar
G
Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 206
Location: India
Concentration: Strategy, International Business
GMAT 1: 620 Q48 V26
GMAT ToolKit User
Re: QOTD: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 10 Jan 2018, 23:16
+1 B

(A) Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected-The it in the opening modifier is unnecessary.

(B) Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected-Looks fine,hold it

(C) It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting- The subject Erie Canal doesn't have any verb

(D) The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected-which is wrongly modifying New York.New York does not connect the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo,The Erie Canal does

(E) The Erie Canal, seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, connecting-The subject Erie Canal doesn't have any verb

Hence the right answer is B
Intern
Intern
User avatar
B
Joined: 03 May 2014
Posts: 26
Re: QOTD: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 11 Jan 2018, 09:54
Question about B:
doesn't B change the meaning with '40 feet wide or 12 feet deep' instead of '40 feet wide and 12 feet deep'. ?
I understand 'it' in B is problematic as pronoun 'it' comes before subject noun 'the Erie canal'.
Senior Manager
Senior Manager
User avatar
S
Joined: 08 Jun 2015
Posts: 418
Location: India
GMAT 1: 640 Q48 V29
GMAT 2: 700 Q48 V38
GPA: 3.33
Reviews Badge
Re: QOTD: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 11 Jan 2018, 10:21
ManSab wrote:
Question about B:
doesn't B change the meaning with '40 feet wide or 12 feet deep' instead of '40 feet wide and 12 feet deep'. ?
I understand 'it' in B is problematic as pronoun 'it' comes before subject noun 'the Erie canal'.


Nice observation. I think the point here is not about the or/and connector. It is about structure. Remaining options are out for want of the correct sentence structure. This option is structurally correct and logically valid too ! The logical meaning here is that in-spite of being 40ft wide or 12 ft deep the canal ran 363 miles across the ruggedness wilderness . The contrast here is between narrow width or shallow depth and length of the river.

Hope this helps !
_________________
" The few , the fearless "
Intern
Intern
avatar
B
Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 14
Re: QOTD: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 12 Jan 2018, 01:50
Hi GMATNinja

Is there any other reason why the answer A is wrong? Besides the use of "it"?
Manager
Manager
User avatar
B
Joined: 15 Aug 2017
Posts: 74
Location: India
Schools: HBS '22
Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 07 Jun 2019, 21:19
mikemcgarry wrote:
NewKid123 wrote:
Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent.
A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
C. It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting
D. The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected
E. The Erie Canal, seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, connecting

Dear NewKid123
I'm happy to help with this one. :-) I like this question. What's the source?

(A) we have a modifier "seldom more than ..." in parallel with an independent clause "it ran ....", a failure of parallelism. Then, we get a run-on sentence --- two independent clauses separated only by a comma. See:
http://gmat.magoosh.com/lessons/916-run-on-sentences
This choice is incorrect.

(B) [modifier] "but" [modifier], [subject][verb] .... all correct. This is promising.

(C) "It was ..." (independent clause), "and ran" (verb in parallel, so far, so good), "but the Erie canal" [modifier][modifier]
This is a failure of parallelism --- after that comma and "but", we need either a full verb or a complete independent clause, and we get neither. For more on parallelism, see:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/parallelis ... orrection/
This is incorrect.

(D) Misplaced modifier!! A classic mistake!! "... the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo ..." The canal did that connecting, not the wilderness of upstate NY. The canal is the intended modifier, but the modifier is nowhere near the canal. This is a violation of the Modifier Touch Rule --- see:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/modifiers- ... orrection/

(E) The missing verb mistake!! Another oldie but goodie!! This choice has modifier after modifier --- it has a perfectly good subject, "The Erie Canal" at the beginning, but this subject has absolutely no verb. There is no full verb anywhere in the sentence, only participial modifiers. See
http://gmat.magoosh.com/lessons/914-the ... rb-mistake

Thus, the only completely correct choice, and hence the only possible answer, is (B).

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)


Hey, you've been really helpful and thank you for that.

The logic I applied looking at the answers was that since there is "providing" later in the sentence, we should choose an answer having "connecting" so as to make it parallel. Where did I go wrong? Thanks again :)
_________________
"You don't want to to look back and know you could've done better".
IIMA, IIMC School Moderator
User avatar
V
Joined: 04 Sep 2016
Posts: 1371
Location: India
WE: Engineering (Other)
CAT Tests
Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 07 Jun 2019, 22:13
1
Rajeet123

Quote:
The logic I applied looking at the answers was that since there is "providing" later in the sentence, we should choose an answer having "connecting" so as to make it parallel. Where did I go wrong? Thanks again :)


My friend, you shall land up in trouble if you forcefully try to connect two elements using parallel
marker without understanding intended meaning.

First of all, providing is coma+verb-ing modifier which presents HOW/ RESULT of preceding clause.
Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep
but
running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, (opening modifier)
the Erie Canal connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, (independent clause)
providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent. (coma+verb-ing modifier also
makes sense with subject EC)

ie EC connected HR by providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent.

Here is a practice question for you, can you share your PoE esp for choice C?

In spite of two clauses connected together correctly by || marker and, it is the verb
tense error that makes C incorrect (had descended vs evolved)


Happy learning and keep posting :)
_________________
It's the journey that brings us happiness not the destination.

Feeling stressed, you are not alone!!
GMAT Club Bot
Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a   [#permalink] 07 Jun 2019, 22:13

Go to page   Previous    1   2   [ 33 posts ] 

Display posts from previous: Sort by

Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a

  new topic post reply Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics  





Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group | Emoji artwork provided by EmojiOne