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Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jul 2015, 19:50
mikemcgarry wrote:
jaspreets wrote:
NewKid123 wrote:
Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent.
A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected
C. It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting
D. The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected
E. The Erie Canal, seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, connecting

Hi mike, i went through your run on sentence explanation, however i still couldn't understand why comma change the meaning drastically for answer choice A.

I understand that Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep is a modifier + ,But - an other modifier it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate new York, the subject ( The Erie Canal)

are you saying that the problem here is first one is a fragment and thus we can't connect it by comma...

its has to be ---independent clause + conjunction without comma independent clause?

Or fragment , + conjunction + independent clause ( it's a wrong usage--it think this would be reason)

I'm confused...could any one help?

Dear jaspreets,
I'm happy to respond. :-) I don't know whether you read my March 13, 2015 comment to nitestr. The problem with (A), ultimately, is not a comma, but a trainwreck of parallelism.
"Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep" = this is an adjectival phrase, a noun-modifying phrase, and this can properly modify a noun.
"it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York" = this is NOT a modifier. This is not a fragment. This is an independent clause: in fact, what I quote here could be a separate stand-alone sentence all by itself. It has a full subject, a pronoun, and a full verb. This is a 100% bonafide independent clause.

Forget about the comma. The comma is not the issue. Completely forget about the comma. The word "but" is a parallelism marker. We can't put a modifying phrase in parallel with an independent clause. In parallelism, the two elements have to match in grammatical structure: we could have two modifying phrases in parallel (and this is precisely what (B) has), or we could have two independent clauses in parallel, but we can't put mismatched things in parallel. That's the issue, not the comma.

Does this make sense?
Mike



Ohh Thank you so much, It's crystal clear now...took one day to understand ,but finally i understood. :)

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 24 May 2016, 11:42
Hi Mike,
I am still not convinced why "or" and not "and"
Canal has to be both wide and deep it can't be just one of these!
The question is from OG13/16 Diagnostic test and in the official explanation of why D is wrong here's what is written

""Logical predication; Grammatical construction
The phrase seldom. ..deep is the first half of a modifier that describes theErie Canal. However, because a comma incorrectly follows deep, this phrase appears to be the entire modifier, which must agree with the noun or pronoun that immediately follows it. This phrase cannot modify the conjunction but, and // has no referent; but it ran is not a logical or grammatical construction following the modifying phrase. Substituting running for it ran creates an adjective phrase parallel to the first adjective phrase {seldom...deep). To contrast the small size reported in the first phrase with the great distance reported in the second, the two phrases may be joined with but; together they create a single modifier correctly modifying the ErieCanal. TheErieCanal is then the subject of the sentence and requires the verb connected to provide a logical statement.
A But it ran cannot logically or grammatically follow the modifying phrase.
B Correct. This sentence properly has the single modifier consisting of two contrasting parts.
C Neither and nor but acts as a logical connector; the use of connecting results in a sentence fragment.
D The paired concepts of width and depth should be joined by and, not or; this construction calls for two main clauses to be separated by a comma after deep; which is ambiguous.
E The two halves of the modifier should not be separated by a comma after deep; the subject is awkwardly and confusingly placed at a great distance from the predicate; the use of connecting rather than connected creates a sentence fragment.
The correct answer is B.""

So if we look at the explanation of option D it clearly says "width and depth should be joined by and, not or" please can you clarify this

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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geek_mnnit wrote:
Hi Mike,
I am still not convinced why "or" and not "and"
Canal has to be both wide and deep it can't be just one of these!
The question is from OG13/16 Diagnostic test and in the official explanation of why D is wrong here's what is written

""Logical predication; Grammatical construction
The phrase seldom. ..deep is the first half of a modifier that describes theErie Canal. However, because a comma incorrectly follows deep, this phrase appears to be the entire modifier, which must agree with the noun or pronoun that immediately follows it. This phrase cannot modify the conjunction but, and // has no referent; but it ran is not a logical or grammatical construction following the modifying phrase. Substituting running for it ran creates an adjective phrase parallel to the first adjective phrase {seldom...deep). To contrast the small size reported in the first phrase with the great distance reported in the second, the two phrases may be joined with but; together they create a single modifier correctly modifying the ErieCanal. TheErieCanal is then the subject of the sentence and requires the verb connected to provide a logical statement.
A But it ran cannot logically or grammatically follow the modifying phrase.
B Correct. This sentence properly has the single modifier consisting of two contrasting parts.
C Neither and nor but acts as a logical connector; the use of connecting results in a sentence fragment.
D The paired concepts of width and depth should be joined by and, not or; this construction calls for two main clauses to be separated by a comma after deep; which is ambiguous.
E The two halves of the modifier should not be separated by a comma after deep; the subject is awkwardly and confusingly placed at a great distance from the predicate; the use of connecting rather than connected creates a sentence fragment.
The correct answer is B.""

So if we look at the explanation of option D it clearly says "width and depth should be joined by and, not or" please can you clarify this

Dear geek_mnnit,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

First of all, it's very important to appreciate the incalculably vast difference between official questions and official explanations. Any question in a current or recent OG is retired from the GMAT. Before it gets to the GMAT, it would go through one of the most rigorous psychometric testing procedures on the face of the earth. The questions that survive this procedure are truly elite, and when these elite questions retire, they find their way into the OGs. By contrast, the explanations are only written once the question is put in the OG. It's not clear whether these explanations have any kind of quality control at all. They are written by different people from those who original wrote the questions. The explanations are sometimes solid, sometimes poor, and occasionally just plain wrong.

Here, the OE is just plain wrong. What is printed for (D) is a mistake, and it contradicts the fact that the "or" construction appears in the OA.

The questions in the OG are some of the best in the world, and they have been subject to some of the most rigorous quality control on earth. The explanations, printed in the same volume, undergo no quality control at all: in fact, I and many of the experts on this site easily can write better explanations than those in the OG. It is very hard to write questions as good as those in the OG. It is relatively easy to write explanations that are better than those in the OG.

In this question, the word "seldom" is a negative. The words "and" and "or" are very tricky with negatives. Think about a real world example. Here are two very common sense observations.
It is not legal to drive a car if one is blind.
It is not legal to drive a car if one is drunk.

Those are both true, and for concision, we want to combine them. Here are two possibilities.
Choice #1: It is not legal to drive a car if one is blind and drunk.
Choice #2: It is not legal to drive a car if one is blind or drunk.
Those two have different meanings. Consider these four cases:
Case A: Driver with perfect vision who is sober
Case B: Driver with perfect vision who is drunk
Case C: Blind driver who is sober
Case D: Blind driver who is drunk
Choice #1 prohibits case D only. Choice #2 prohibits cases B, C, and C, allowing only A. Obviously, Case A is the only category of people who should be actually operating vehicles on the road! Thus, choice #2, the OR case, is the proper combination.

Even though "seldom" is a less intensive negative, it is still a negative logically, so it demands the OR structure in a similar way in this question about the Erie Canal.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 18 Mar 2017, 11:49
mikemcgarry wrote:
mahendru1992 wrote:
Hi thanks for replying. :D But what i mean is if you look at the original question which has the following line "Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep but if you look at option B "Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep". How does this make sense? I'm sorry if i'm nitpicking and if the meaning is obvious, I don't get it.
P.S The question that you posted in your reply has and in option b. So could the original question have a typo by any chance?

Ah! I didn't notice the and/or distinction. This is a perfect example of changing the meaning to what the sentence is trying to say.

The sentence is trying to say ----
The Erie Canal is seldom more than 40 feet wide
and also
The Erie Canal is seldom more than 12 feet deep
That's the intended meaning. It is trying to say that each one of those conditions is true. How do we say that in combined form?

This is a very common mistake --- combining negative statements (the word "seldom" is a mild negative). People think that because there's an "and" between the two overall ideas, there should be an "and" between the individual elements. This is WRONG.
The sentence
"The Erie Canal is seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep"
technically implies: What's rare is the combination, the stretches where the canal is simultaneously more than 40 feet wide and more than 12 feet deep. It's only a statement about the combination stretches, where both conditions are met. In other words, this sentence allows for all kinds of stretches where it is much wider than 40, as long as its shallow, or much deeper than 12, as long as its narrow. That's what is allowed by this phrasing, and this is not what the sentence is trying to say. The sentence is trying to say that (1) the condition "more than 40 feet wide" is a rare condition, and separately, (2) the condition "more than 12 feet deep" is a rare condition. Both are rare individually --- it's not the combination that's important at all. The correct way to convey this is:
"The Erie Canal is seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep"

Similarly,
One cannot vote if one is under 18. True.
One cannot vote if one has a felony record. True.
How do we combine these into a single true statement. Many people make the mistake:
One cannot vote if one is under 18 and has a felony record.
That would be an illogical statement saying that the only folks forbidden to vote would be teenagers with felony records, a rare group. According to that red sentence, teenagers with no criminal record and felons over the age of 18 both would be allowed to vote, which is blatantly untrue.
The correct way to say this is:
One cannot vote if one is under 18 or has a felony record.

If the GMAT gives a mistake structure in the original, the job is to figure out the correct way to communicate what the original sentence is trying to say. The "not ... and" structure is almost always a mistake: see OG13, SC #21.

I hadn't noticed this split --- this increases my respect for this question even further. :-)

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)


Sorry mikemcgarry, I don't buy your take on the "and" vs. "or". This answer/explanation is blasphemous IMO. I know we're not "allowed" to say that the GMAC/GMAT is trying to trick us, but let's spare the political correctness.
> There SHOULD be a meaning error here b/c if I am talking about a specific canal (let's call it Canal X) that is 40 ft wide AND 12 ft deep, this canal WILL BE DIFFERENT than another one (i.e. Canal Y) that is 40 ft wide OR 12 ft deep. That is, if a canal is 40ft wide AND 12ft deep, there is no way it can ALSO be 40ft wide OR 12ft deep.

There is no escaping this logic

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 20 Mar 2017, 11:35
LakerFan24 wrote:
Sorry mikemcgarry, I don't buy your take on the "and" vs. "or". This answer/explanation is blasphemous IMO. I know we're not "allowed" to say that the GMAC/GMAT is trying to trick us, but let's spare the political correctness.
> There SHOULD be a meaning error here b/c if I am talking about a specific canal (let's call it Canal X) that is 40 ft wide AND 12 ft deep, this canal WILL BE DIFFERENT than another one (i.e. Canal Y) that is 40 ft wide OR 12 ft deep. That is, if a canal is 40ft wide AND 12ft deep, there is no way it can ALSO be 40ft wide OR 12ft deep.

There is no escaping this logic

Dear LakerFan24,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

We are getting into some very tricky regions of formal logic at this point. First, I will represent this symbolically. Let P and Q be general factual statements, that may be true or false.
The logical opposite of (P and Q) is (not P or not Q).
The logical opposite of (P or Q) is (not P and not Q).

(P and Q) includes just one case: (P = true, Q = true)
The opposite, (not P or not Q), includes the other three possibilities
(a) (P = false, Q = true)
(b) (P = true, Q = false)
(c) (P = false, Q = false)

(P or Q) includes just one case:
(a) (P = true, Q = true)
(b) (P = false, Q = true)
(c) (P = true, Q = false)
The opposite, (not P and not Q), just the last possibility: (P = true, Q = false)

The connector word (and/or) flip-flop from whether you are making statements in the affirmative or in the negative. Notice that the statements in the prompt are negatives, and your statements were in the affirmative. That is an excellent way to get confused on what the right connector world would be.

Thus:
It is legal to drive when one is sober AND has vision (i.e. is not blind).
It is not legal to drive when one is drunk OR blind.

This is the verbal equivalent of multiplying both sides of the "equation" by a negative: here, the "equals sign" is the verb "to be," and the negative of the "AND" statement is the "OR statement.

I would urge you to look at this old question (GMAT OG13, SC #21)
https://gmatclub.com/forum/the-commission-has-directed-advertisers-to-restrict-the-use-63645.html

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 21 Mar 2017, 15:03
mikemcgarry wrote:
LakerFan24 wrote:
Sorry mikemcgarry, I don't buy your take on the "and" vs. "or". This answer/explanation is blasphemous IMO. I know we're not "allowed" to say that the GMAC/GMAT is trying to trick us, but let's spare the political correctness.
> There SHOULD be a meaning error here b/c if I am talking about a specific canal (let's call it Canal X) that is 40 ft wide AND 12 ft deep, this canal WILL BE DIFFERENT than another one (i.e. Canal Y) that is 40 ft wide OR 12 ft deep. That is, if a canal is 40ft wide AND 12ft deep, there is no way it can ALSO be 40ft wide OR 12ft deep.

There is no escaping this logic

Dear LakerFan24,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

We are getting into some very tricky regions of formal logic at this point. First, I will represent this symbolically. Let P and Q be general factual statements, that may be true or false.
The logical opposite of (P and Q) is (not P or not Q).
The logical opposite of (P or Q) is (not P and not Q).

(P and Q) includes just one case: (P = true, Q = true)
The opposite, (not P or not Q), includes the other three possibilities
(a) (P = false, Q = true)
(b) (P = true, Q = false)
(c) (P = false, Q = false)

(P or Q) includes just one case:
(a) (P = true, Q = true)
(b) (P = false, Q = true)
(c) (P = true, Q = false)
The opposite, (not P and not Q), just the last possibility: (P = true, Q = false)

The connector word (and/or) flip-flop from whether you are making statements in the affirmative or in the negative. Notice that the statements in the prompt are negatives, and your statements were in the affirmative. That is an excellent way to get confused on what the right connector world would be.

Thus:
It is legal to drive when one is sober AND has vision (i.e. is not blind).
It is not legal to drive when one is drunk OR blind.

This is the verbal equivalent of multiplying both sides of the "equation" by a negative: here, the "equals sign" is the verb "to be," and the negative of the "AND" statement is the "OR statement.

I would urge you to look at this old question (GMAT OG13, SC #21)
https://gmatclub.com/forum/the-commission-has-directed-advertisers-to-restrict-the-use-63645.html

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)



With all due respect, I've read your entire post looking for a direct answer to my question and was unable to find one. To reiterate, if you told me to find a canal that is 40ft wide AND 12 ft deep, and then later you tell me to find another canal that is 40ft wide OR 12ft deep, there is absolutely no way I could find one canal satisfies both of your requirements. In the end, I would find one canal for each of your 2 conditions, leaving you with a total of two different canals. This is why I say the meaning changed.

Does my argument make sense?

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 21 Mar 2017, 17:00
LakerFan24 wrote:
With all due respect, I've read your entire post looking for a direct answer to my question and was unable to find one. To reiterate, if you told me to find a canal that is 40ft wide AND 12 ft deep, and then later you tell me to find another canal that is 40ft wide OR 12ft deep, there is absolutely no way I could find one canal satisfies both of your requirements. In the end, I would find one canal for each of your 2 conditions, leaving you with a total of two different canals. This is why I say the meaning changed.

Does my argument make sense?

Dear LakerFan24,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

I see now. You misunderstand the word "or" itself. See this post:
The Word “Or” in GMAT Math

You see, in most ordinary colloquial speech, the word "or" is used as the exclusive or (written XOR in logic)
P XOR Q means P by itself or Q by itself but definitely not both together and definitely not neither

In all of mathematics on planet Earth, and through the GMAT, the word "or" is used exclusively as the inclusive or; in logic and mathematics, this is represented by the ordinary word "or."
P or Q mean P by itself or Q by itself or PQ together but definitely not neither.

Thus, in the logical use of the word, I would be an example of both
(a) a man who is a college graduate AND a NY Mets fan
(b) a man who is a college graduate OR a NY Mets fan
I am definitely not an example of
(c) a man who is a college graduate XOR a NY Mets fan
In fact, by definitely, any person in (c) could not be in (a), and vice versa. All true, but wherever "or" appears on the GMAT or in any math book on the planet, it never never never means XOR. On the GMAT, OR is always inclusive, and (a) is a strict logical subset of (b).

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 21 Mar 2017, 17:17
mikemcgarry wrote:
LakerFan24 wrote:
With all due respect, I've read your entire post looking for a direct answer to my question and was unable to find one. To reiterate, if you told me to find a canal that is 40ft wide AND 12 ft deep, and then later you tell me to find another canal that is 40ft wide OR 12ft deep, there is absolutely no way I could find one canal satisfies both of your requirements. In the end, I would find one canal for each of your 2 conditions, leaving you with a total of two different canals. This is why I say the meaning changed.

Does my argument make sense?

Dear LakerFan24,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

I see now. You misunderstand the word "or" itself. See this post:
The Word “Or” in GMAT Math

You see, in most ordinary colloquial speech, the word "or" is used as the exclusive or (written XOR in logic)
P XOR Q means P by itself or Q by itself but definitely not both together and definitely not neither

In all of mathematics on planet Earth, and through the GMAT, the word "or" is used exclusively as the inclusive or; in logic and mathematics, this is represented by the ordinary word "or."
P or Q mean P by itself or Q by itself or PQ together but definitely not neither.

Thus, in the logical use of the word, I would be an example of both
(a) a man who is a college graduate AND a NY Mets fan
(b) a man who is a college graduate OR a NY Mets fan
I am definitely not an example of
(c) a man who is a college graduate XOR a NY Mets fan
In fact, by definitely, any person in (c) could not be in (a), and vice versa. All true, but wherever "or" appears on the GMAT or in any math book on the planet, it never never never means XOR. On the GMAT, OR is always inclusive, and (a) is a strict logical subset of (b).

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)



Ah - completely understand. I didn't really think about "exclusive" or "inclusive" or, but you're right. I feel like in Probability problems, the "inclusive" or can be highlighted, whereas if someone says "Mike, you won a new car OR a new house", the "exclusive" or is taken into effect.

Now to clarify -- you're saying the "inclusive" version of "or" occurs on both the Quant AND Verbal sections? So every time I see an "or" on the GMAT, I am to assume the inclusive property?

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 22 Mar 2017, 10:16
LakerFan24 wrote:
Ah - completely understand. I didn't really think about "exclusive" or "inclusive" or, but you're right. I feel like in Probability problems, the "inclusive" or can be highlighted, whereas if someone says "Mike, you won a new car OR a new house", the "exclusive" or is taken into effect.

Now to clarify -- you're saying the "inclusive" version of "or" occurs on both the Quant AND Verbal sections? So every time I see an "or" on the GMAT, I am to assume the inclusive property?

Dear LakerFan24,

My friend, I'm happy to respond. :-)

Yes, in spoken language, the word "or" often means the exclusive "or"--especially when emotional inflection lands on that word! (I'll let you think about examples in emotionally charged interpersonal situations!)

On the GMAT Quant (and conventionally through mathematics in general), the word "or" is always inclusive. To be consistent--and the GMAT is nothing if not logically consistent!--if the unadorned word "or" appears on the Verbal or IR or even the AWA, the GMAT always would intend it as the inclusive "or." If, under some circumstances they intended the exclusive "or," they would have to spell that out explicitly (e.g. "P or Q individually, but not both together"). You are 100% safe if you assume, barring explicit language to the contrary, that every "or" you see on the GMAT is inclusive.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 17 Jul 2017, 11:55
Although mikemcgarry clearly rules on this question with some brilliant answers out there. I would like to add a quick note from my side.

Mike I know you have clarified the confusion between "and" and "or" I am still not getting it completely, may be because it's just the way, we non-natives have been using till date.

Coming back to the question. Let's begin the answer analysis.

A. Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected

- ",but it ran" is illogical and hence the sentence is not parallel with the modifier "Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep"

B. Seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected

- CORRECT
- Usage of verb "connected" is correct


C. It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting

- Missing verb as the word "connecting" is used, making the sentence fragment.

D. The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected

- usage of "which" is ambigous

E. The Erie Canal, seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but running 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, connecting

- Missing verb as the word "connecting" is used, making the sentence fragment.

Hence, Answer is B

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 14 Sep 2017, 13:45
Although "B" is a correct choice. I wanted to know if someone else can throw a few convincing points about WHY A and C are incorrect? Thanks.
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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 14 Sep 2017, 14:17
AnubhavK wrote:
Although "B" is a correct choice. I wanted to know if someone else can throw a few convincing points about WHY A and C are incorrect? Thanks.



Hello AnubhavK,

I will be glad to help you out with one. :-)

Let's take a look at Choice A:

Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, the Erie Canal connected

This choice is incorrect for two reasons:

i. The sentence presents two features of Erie canal that should be parallel to each other - the width and depth of the canal and the length or the extent of stretch of the canal. Although logically parallel, the two features Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York are grammatically not parallel because the former is a phrase while the latter is a clause.

ii. Comma + but ids followed by an independent clause it ran... which is connected to another independent clause the Erie Canal connected... by just a comma. This structure is not grammatical.


Now let's take a look at Choice C:

It was seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, and ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, but the Erie Canal, connecting

This choice is also incorrect for two reason:

i. There is no verb for the subject the Erie Canal.

ii. Use of connector and instead of but takes away the intended contrast mentioned in the original sentence.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 14 Sep 2017, 14:42
ydmuley wrote:
Although mikemcgarry clearly rules on this question with some brilliant answers out there. I would like to add a quick note from my side.

Mike I know you have clarified the confusion between "and" and "or" I am still not getting it completely, may be because it's just the way, we non-natives have been using till date.




Hello ydmuley,

I would like to present my two cents on the usage of and Vs. but in this official sentence. :-)

The sentence presents a few features of the Erie Canal. This canal ran 363 miles across the upstate New York. But it is not imperative that the canal was 40 feet wide AND 12 feet deep at the same time all across the stretch. At some places it were 40 feet wide, and some places it was not. Similarly, at some places it was 12 feet deep, but not that deep at most of the places.


So it is not that the Erie Canal was seldom 40 deep wide and 12 feet deep at the same time as conveyed by the usage of and. These two conditions did not occur together. It's not that where the canal was 40 feet wide, it was 12 feet deep also. It was any one condition all along the stretch. Hence, use of or makes more sense in the context of this sentence.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a [#permalink]

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New post 28 Sep 2017, 04:15
Need some insights from the Experts

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Re: Seldom more than 40 feet wide and 12 feet deep, but it ran 363 miles a   [#permalink] 28 Sep 2017, 04:15

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