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Since the 1930's aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes

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New post 20 Apr 2013, 11:43
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skamal7 wrote:
+1 kudos mate for sharing the link.

But if you see those posts we see that verb-ed modifier is also a noun modifier for sure.SO all noun modifiers can modify the far away noun.So verb-ed modifiers can also modify far away noun i guess..please correct me if am wrong


Thats correct mate....Noun modifiers can modify any entity in a sentence
Verb ed modifier can modify far away nouns

Hope this helps

(waiting for your +1 kudos..... :banana
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New post 23 Aug 2013, 00:42
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blueseas wrote:
Ankit04041987 wrote:
651. Since the 1930’s aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes with frictionless wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly that the air passing over them would not become turbulent.
(A) wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly
(B) wings, wings so smooth and so perfectly shaped
(C) wings that are shaped so smooth and perfect
(D) wings, shaped in such a smooth and perfect manner
(E) wings, wings having been shaped smoothly and perfectly so


anyone having a good explanation for this??
:(


This question solely carries its weight on meaning issue which then correlates to how we use the modifiers after grasping the meaning...The sentence tries to convey that the wings are smooth ( we know that in an airplane the wings should be smooth so that the friction is zero and the air thus can give the lift to make the plane airborne :wink: Bernoullie's principle ) and the wings are shaped perfectly. Thus the two modifiers here should act independently SMOOTH AS AN ADJECTIVE FOR WINGS and PERFECTLY AS AN ADVERB FOR SHAPED... so i think if u can reach to this subtle conclusion through analysis of the meaning u can easily eliminate all the options but B which keeps the meaning of the sentence perfectly intact ...

Hope it helps..
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New post 15 Sep 2013, 11:48
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Hi akshaychaturvedi007

This question is quite tough. I just want to elaborate more. Hope it helps you.

Some theories:
(1) So X that Y --> correct idiom
(2) HAVING BEEN + P2 ==> perfect gerund
--> denotes a state or condition that no longer subsists at the time of speaking

Since the 1930's aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes with frictionless wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly that the air passing over them would not become turbulent.

(A) wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly
Wrong. Verb-ed + comma ==> modifies preceding noun "wings" correctly. BUT A is wrong because "them" refers to airplanes or wings? very ambiguous.
The structure of A is: "airplanes with frictionless wings, shaped so X that Y passing over them......" ==> "them" is not clear.

(B) wings, wings so smooth and so perfectly shaped
Correct. The blue part is absolute phrase modifier --> "them" only refers to the closest noun "wings" --> correct.

(C) wings that are shaped so smooth and perfect
Wrong. "smooth" and "perfect" are ADJECTIVES, but we need adverbs after verb "shaped" --> "smoothly" and "perfectly" are correct, NOT "smooth and perfect".

(D) wings, shaped in such a smooth and perfect manner
Wrong. Same error as in A. "them" in non-underlined part refers to what? airplanes or wings?

(E) wings, wings having been shaped smoothly and perfectly so
Wrong. HAVING BEEN + shaped --> perfect gerund --> denotes a state or condition that no longer subsists at the time of speaking ==> Clearly changes meaning --> wrong.

Hope it helps.
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New post 19 Nov 2013, 19:47
Why not, this seems quite an apt SC question. Once again, the GMAT isn't 'always' about the logic, sometimes it can also be about the less error prone. Experts, am I right or not?
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New post 21 Nov 2013, 13:03
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mohnish104 wrote:
Why not, this seems quite an apt SC question. Once again, the GMAT isn't 'always' about the logic, sometimes it can also be about the less error prone. Experts, am I right or not?


Hi mohnish

I'm glad to help.

Some basic grammar backgrounds
1. VERB-ed modifier + comma ==> Always modifies a preceding clause.
2. Noun + Noun modifier ==> Can modify preceding noun, any noun in the preceding clause or preceding clause.
3. Idiom: so X that Y


Back to the question.

Since the 1930's aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes with frictionless wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly that the air passing over them would not become turbulent.

(A) wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly
Wrong. Verb-ed modifer "shaped" + comma ==> modifies preceding clause ==> it's like aircraft manufactures are shaped.... ==> Wrong.

(B) wings, wings so smooth and so perfectly shaped
Correct. "wings" is NOT redundant at all. This is "noun + noun modifier" ==> Modifies preceding noun "wings" very clearly.

(C) wings that are shaped so smooth and perfect
Wrong. "smooth" and perfect" are ADJECTIVE. But we need adverbs here ==? shaped smoothly and perfectly.

(D) wings, shaped in such a smooth and perfect manner
Wrong. Same error as in A.

(E) wings, wings having been shaped smoothly and perfectly so
Wrong. the usage of "so that" = in order to. But it's not the case here.

Hope it helps.
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New post 04 May 2016, 03:20
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Ankit04041987 wrote:
651. Since the 1930’s aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes with frictionless wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly that the air passing over them would not become turbulent.
(A) wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly
(B) wings, wings so smooth and so perfectly shaped
(C) wings that are shaped so smooth and perfect
(D) wings, shaped in such a smooth and perfect manner
(E) wings, wings having been shaped smoothly and perfectly so



First to rule out "A" - "shaped" a past participle modifier which should modify the subject / object of the clause it modifies. here wings is neither the subject nor the object of the preceding clause because it is a prepositional phrase complementing "airplane" ---- airplane WITH frictionless wings.

So as per the meaning of this sentence "shaped can be written if it is not preceeded by a "," i.e. ".......airplanes with frictionless wings shaped so smoothly and perfectly that....." BUT in no answer choice we have this option.

Now this sentence needs an independent clause in underlined part because the non-underlined part starts with "since"

So we are left with option B as "having been ............" kind of terms are mostly not correct as per GMAT
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New post 25 Jun 2016, 09:03
The error with the original sentence is the inclusion of the comma after the noun "wings". Answer choice B fixes the issue by adding "wings" at the beginning of the modifier.
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New post 07 Nov 2016, 01:14
dear experts,
I am confused by "comma -ed" modifier. appreciate if you can point out my fault and guide that how should we distinguish the modified preceding closest noun/far more preceding noun

so far, what I know is that "comma -ed" modifies the preceding noun or noun phrase.
I will consider prior the closest preceding noun, or I will seek far more preceding noun if no sensible.

1/ preceding closest noun,
in this case, comma shaped modifies wings sensibly, in other words, wings are shaped smoothly and perfectly ... so I won't seek more antecedent.

2/ far more preceding noun
for example,
I read the book on the desk , wrote by Mr. M ..
in this case, comma wrote modifies desk nonsensibly, so I will seek far more antecedent "book"..

that's how I approach "comma -ed"
while I read the whole thread, which says "comma shaped" modifies airplanes.

I think I missed something about "comma - ed".


genuinely want your explanation.

thanks in advance
have a nice day
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New post 11 Nov 2016, 15:23
zoezhuyan wrote:
dear experts,
I am confused by "comma -ed" modifier. appreciate if you can point out my fault and guide that how should we distinguish the modified preceding closest noun/far more preceding noun

so far, what I know is that "comma -ed" modifies the preceding noun or noun phrase.
I will consider prior the closest preceding noun, or I will seek far more preceding noun if no sensible.

1/ preceding closest noun,
in this case, comma shaped modifies wings sensibly, in other words, wings are shaped smoothly and perfectly ... so I won't seek more antecedent.

2/ far more preceding noun
for example,
I read the book on the desk , wrote by Mr. M ..
in this case, comma wrote modifies desk nonsensibly, so I will seek far more antecedent "book"..

that's how I approach "comma -ed"
while I read the whole thread, which says "comma shaped" modifies airplanes.

I think I missed something about "comma - ed".

genuinely want your explanation.

thanks in advance
have a nice day
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Dear zoezhuyan,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, I believe we have already discussed some of this on other posts. The "-ed" modifier is called a past participle, and this is a passive participle. Many many common verbs in English have irregular past participles. For regular verbs, the -ed form is both the past tense and the past participle. For irregular verbs, sometimes the past tense & past participle are the same and sometimes they are not. See that blog article for examples of both.

I will point out a grammar mistake in your example sentence:
I read the book on the desk, wrote by Mr. M ..
This should be
I read the book on the desk, written by Mr. M ..
This is an irregular verb for which the past participle different from the past tense.

I would say that this particular SC question is not of the highest quality. It's not necessarily going to be helpful to learn the subtleties of grammar to use questions that aren't high quality. The official questions are always the best. MGMAT and Magoosh have very good questions, and I have been impressed with many Veritas questions. Don't be naive: don't simply assume, just because some company says "we have good GMAT practice questions," that the questions actually are written at a high level. It's relatively easy to write high quality GMAT math practice questions, but it is exceptionally hard to write high quality GMAT verbal practice questions. Caveat emptor. Be a highly discriminating consumer of GMAT practice verbal questions!

I will also say, as I have said elsewhere: you are looking for fixed rules about things that are determined by logic and meaning. There is no shortcut for engaging with the meaning of a sentence. Depending on context, the participle after the comma may modify the noun it touches or not.

Part of what is a little strange about this is that 90% of the time that a past participle phrase is used as a noun modifier, it is not separated by a comma from its target noun. Again, the sentence in this SC is very poorly written: it is as if the author deliberately bent the sentence out of shape so that he could test the particular grammar point he had in mind.

Example #1: I am reading a book, written by someone in an insane asylum, ironically that won multiple awards.
Example #2: I have a book about penguins, written by a man who lived in Antartica with them for six years!
Example #3: This book is one of my favorites of all time, written by one of my favorite authors.
Depending on meaning, the pattern of modification can vary enormously.

Does all this make sense?

Have a wonderful day, my friend. :-)
Mike :-)
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New post 26 Jul 2017, 07:35
Hi, Can an expert please help me out
I just wanted to clarify one thing. Doesn't option B require a semi colon instead of a comma since the 2 sentences are independent clauses?
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New post 26 Jul 2017, 09:46
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darn wrote:
Hi, Can an expert please help me out
I just wanted to clarify one thing. Doesn't option B require a semi colon instead of a comma since the 2 sentences are independent clauses?

Dear darn,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

The short answer is: no. The sentence would be incorrect with a semicolon, because in fact there are NOT two independent clauses. What comes before the comma is the only independent clause in the sentence, and what comes after is not an independent clause.

Here's (B).
Since the 1930’s aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes with frictionless wings, wings so smooth and so perfectly shaped that the air passing over them would not become turbulent.

Before the comma, there's a full independent clause, with a subject ("aircraft manufacturers') and a full verb ("have tried").

What comes after the comma is an appositive phrase. It consists of
1) a noun = wings
2) two adjectives in parallel = so smooth and so perfectly shaped
3) an adverbial clause = that the air passing over them would not become turbulent

The adjectives modify the noun, and the adverbial clause modifies the adjectives. The noun "wings" has no corresponding verb, so this is not a clause.

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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New post 15 Apr 2018, 23:10
Ankit04041987 wrote:
651. Since the 1930’s aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes with frictionless wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly that the air passing over them would not become turbulent.
(A) wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly
(B) wings, wings so smooth and so perfectly shaped
(C) wings that are shaped so smooth and perfect
(D) wings, shaped in such a smooth and perfect manner
(E) wings, wings having been shaped smoothly and perfectly so


1. Understand the meaning -
Since the 1930's the aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes with frictionless wings. The wings are so smooth and so perfectly shaped that the air passing overten would not become turbulent.

2. Error analysis (on given statement ) -
SV pair - all correct - manufacturers ( plural ) have (plural) , air ( singular ) would (singular here )
Verb tense - all correct - (since ) indicated the the sction is still in effect and usage of " have manufactured " is right as the manufacturers are continuing the plan.
pronoun - that refers to the wings in MC.
Modifier - Error. Here "shaped is a verb-ed modifier " of the noun wings and hence should not be separated by a comma .
Parallelism - all the verbs are parallel. Would not here is also correct as it is an exxpected result.
idiom- no idioms
meaning- error - Incorrectly implies that the airplanes were shaped smoothly and perfectly

3. Ans choice analysis -
A. Above explanation
B. CORRECT. Wings after comma, correctly gives a modified noun to the verb-ed modifier.
C. the word perfect is an adverb and hence should modifiy the verb shaped in the form " perfect-ly".
D.Meaning error- modifier ambiguity.
E.having been is used wrongly. Unnecessary wording.
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New post 10 Mar 2019, 06:17
A – ‘shaped so smoothly and perfectly…’in this clause there is no subject, so it is not clear what ‘them’ is referring to.
B – Correct
C – adjectives ‘smooth and perfect’ are being used to describe verb ‘shaped’
D – Same problem as A
E –‘so’ should come before shaped, to convey magnitude.
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New post 22 Sep 2019, 04:21
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batliwala wrote:
Since the 1930's aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes with frictionless wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly that the air passing over them would not become turbulent.


(A) wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly

(B) wings, wings so smooth and so perfectly shaped

(C) wings that are shaped so smooth and perfect

(D) wings, shaped in such a smooth and perfect manner

(E) wings, wings having been shaped smoothly and perfectly so


SC58461.01


https://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/11/science/new-plan-wing-design-greatly-cuts-drag-to-save-fuel.html

Since the 1930's aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes with laminar-flow wings, wings so smooth and perfectly shaped that the air passing over them would not become turbulent. The World War II B-24 Liberator bomber and P-51 Mustang fighter had wings designed to maintain laminar flow, but manufacturing imperfections, dents and other inevitable flaws always spoiled laminar flow.


Official Explanation

Diction; Logical predication

The sentence as written is not stated clearly. For example, it is unclear what is shaped so smoothly and perfectly; it could be either the airplanes or the wings. Upon considering the likely intended meaning, along with a review of the other answer choices, it seems most likely that the phrase is intended to modify frictionless wings.

Next, we need to consider whether it makes more sense to say that the wings are smooth or shaped smoothly. This issue can be determined only by considering the most plausible intended meaning rather than by considering just the grammar of the sentence. The idea of being smoothly shaped would seem already to be part of the idea of being shaped perfectly, and therefore it is redundant. On the other hand, having a surface that is very smooth would be crucial in a quest to make an airplane wing frictionless; for this reason, it makes sense to point out that the wings themselves are smooth.

A. This choice is incorrect for the reasons stated above.

B. Correct. Given the repetition of the word wings, it is clear that what follows modifies wings and not airplanes. Describing the wings as smooth and perfectly shaped clearly conveys what is most likely intended.

C. In this version, note that shaped is modified. For this reason, proper grammar requires that the adverbs smoothly and perfectly are needed rather than the adjectives smooth and perfect. However, as discussed previously, the intended meaning of the sentence would be better conveyed if we used the adjective smooth to modify wings rather than the adverb smoothly to modify shaped.

D. It is initially unclear what is being described as having been shaped in such a smooth and perfect manner; it could be either the airplane or its wings. Even if that were clarified, however, the sentence would be flawed: the sentence is intended to describe the wings themselves, not the manner in which the wings were shaped. That is, this wording could be interpreted as referring to the nature of the wings themselves or to the process through which they were made. This ambiguity makes the meaning of the sentence unclear.

E. This version is very awkwardly worded, mainly because of having been. Furthermore, this version describes the act of shaping the wings. Because the sentence is instead meant to describe the wings themselves, this choice is incorrect.

The correct answer is B.
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New post 22 Sep 2019, 13:53
Since the 1930's aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes with frictionless wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly that the air passing over them would not become turbulent.


(A) wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly --> wings shaped smoothly is wrong. wings are shaped so smooth is correct - so eliminate

(B) wings, wings so smooth and so perfectly shaped --> no errors wings are shaped so smooth and perfectly is correct grammar

(C) wings that are shaped so smooth and perfect --> wings that are shaped so perfect is incorrect

(D) wings, shaped in such a smooth and perfect manner --> same error as C

(E) wings, wings having been shaped smoothly and perfectly so --> wings having been is wrong.
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New post 23 Sep 2019, 08:48
Since the 1930's aircraft manufacturers have tried to build airplanes with frictionless wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly that the air passing over them would not become turbulent.

You can solve it through meaning and understanding of adverbs. First thing I noticed while reading the question is if we can shape something smoothly. Yes, we can but does the sentence intended meaning that the wings were smooth or wings were shaped smoothly. Now, if I read the whole sentence, the author is most likely trying to say wings are smooth. With this understanding, we can see that A is out, C is out because perfect was modifying verb so you need adverb. Again, meaning error as A in D. E is quite verbose and has the same error as C.

Now, B is left where there are two things modifying wings - Smooth and perfectly shaped which are also parallel.

(A) wings, shaped so smoothly and perfectly

(B) wings, wings so smooth and so perfectly shaped

(C) wings that are shaped so smooth and perfect

(D) wings, shaped in such a smooth and perfect manner

(E) wings, wings having been shaped smoothly and perfectly so
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New post 04 Oct 2019, 19:34
I'm a bit lost on this one... With reference to A..I thought past participial modifiers typically modify the closest noun, particularly when they are non-restrictive.

Or is it that the modifier is non-restrictive that we run into issues in what the participial can modify?

"airplanes with frictionless wings" - here "with..." is adjectival.. so its really unclear to me how the participial could refer back to airplanes
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