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# structuring

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Manager
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 160
Location: Milan, Italy
Schools: Booth (admitted R1), NYU (interview Mar 4), UT (withdrawn), Rice (admitted R2) plus dings at HBS, Stanford, Wharton and CBS
WE 1: Oil and gas
Followers: 4

Kudos [?]: 29 [1] , given: 6

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04 May 2010, 02:40
1
KUDOS
Hi guys! Although my main idea is to pursue IM after business school, I've recently found myself flirting with the idea of structuring in IB. I find this role interesting conceptually but don't know much about the specifics of the job. Anyone here with experience in this area who can help answer a few questions?

What's a typical day like? What career progression opportunities would I find? How tough is it to get in and how disgusting is the work-life imbalance? What kind of teams would I work in?

Looking forward to any inside knowledge from you fine folks.

Cheers!
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If I said something intelligent, it was probably by accident. But click "kudos" anyway - it will make me happy.

VP
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 1430
Location: New York, NY
Schools: NYU Stern 2009
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04 May 2010, 08:45
Structuring has been pretty much a dead world since late 2007, and was destroyed 2008.

Further problem is that they were more looking for PhD's within the sciences to create the structures. Some MBA's were in there (I know some who were in the tax side, which is still alive). That side involves a painful amount of legal work to identify and understand the structures. Consequently, hours can be very long.

There are 'structured' areas on desks like credit, but they very much prefer engineers and math guys to build the positions - given they are a bit more prop oriented. Emerging Markets guys sell quite a bit of structured products, but the MBAs are the sales guys rather than the structurer for the most part.
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Senior Manager
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 376
WE: Consulting (Consulting)
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Kudos [?]: 75 [0], given: 4

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12 Jun 2010, 12:24
Geez, it sounds practically impossible for an MBA to get into trading, or even structuring. From what I can tell (based on stuff here on GMATClub, WSO, and the career profiles pages at investment banks), almost all the MBAs recruited into S&T go into Sales... Are structuring and trading that off-limits for MBAs? 3underscore is really one of the chosen few, though global macroeconomic conditions are always a force to be reckoned with...

Britguy, as far as structuring goes, it sounds like in theory, an MBA should have something to contribute, but based on the info the investment banks provide, S&T almost always means "sales" for an MBA.

If I may ask, did you present your career goals as IM or structuring?
CEO
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 2959
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Kudos [?]: 601 [0], given: 210

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13 Jun 2010, 14:48
This is a sad combination of economic conditions and general industry trends. Many IBs are looking at undergrads to bring through the ranks for pure trading roles. Many ex legal background type folks are getting internships in structuring but probably more in the areas 3under suggested above. I have met some MBAs who got into trading, but that was well in the past (and these MBAs had strong quanty backgrounds). As an MBA, expecting a pure trading job straight out is highly optimistic (unless of course you already were a trader).
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Senior Manager
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
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WE: Consulting (Consulting)
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Kudos [?]: 75 [0], given: 4

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13 Jun 2010, 23:03
Hey bsd_lover, is that the case also for LBS? I thought it was incredibly well plugged-in to the City. Are you enjoying it there?

How much trading background is "enough" to be considered competitive for that job?

Geez. The outlook is pretty bleak. The one industry/function I'm interested in basically doesn't hire MBAs... Great.
CEO
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14 Jun 2010, 04:02
The school is indeed incredibly well plugged in and I have enjoyed every moment of my experience here;

However pure trading jobs are among the toughest to get into and there are tons of folks usually in school that have very relevant experiences (eg. middle office, trading, Sales or structuring from legal side). Basically don't expect to walk into a trading job, you'll need to prove yourself first. London and NYC also have several Hedge Funds which provide an alternative start if you can manage to get in.

Usually the way banks recruit is via HR as a first point of CV cleansing. These people have some set stereotypes in mind and you need to get past them to even get an interview. So you'll need to network your ass off to have even the remotest chance. Having said that, if you want it bad enough then you'll figure out a way.

osbornecox wrote:
Hey bsd_lover, is that the case also for LBS? I thought it was incredibly well plugged-in to the City. Are you enjoying it there?

How much trading background is "enough" to be considered competitive for that job?

Geez. The outlook is pretty bleak. The one industry/function I'm interested in basically doesn't hire MBAs... Great.

_________________
Senior Manager
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 376
WE: Consulting (Consulting)
Followers: 11

Kudos [?]: 75 [0], given: 4

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14 Jun 2010, 05:02
bsd_lover wrote:
The school is indeed incredibly well plugged in and I have enjoyed every moment of my experience here;

However pure trading jobs are among the toughest to get into and there are tons of folks usually in school that have very relevant experiences (eg. middle office, trading, Sales or structuring from legal side). Basically don't expect to walk into a trading job, you'll need to prove yourself first. London and NYC also have several Hedge Funds which provide an alternative start if you can manage to get in.

Usually the way banks recruit is via HR as a first point of CV cleansing. These people have some set stereotypes in mind and you need to get past them to even get an interview. So you'll need to network your ass off to have even the remotest chance. Having said that, if you want it bad enough then you'll figure out a way.

osbornecox wrote:
Hey bsd_lover, is that the case also for LBS? I thought it was incredibly well plugged-in to the City. Are you enjoying it there?

How much trading background is "enough" to be considered competitive for that job?

Geez. The outlook is pretty bleak. The one industry/function I'm interested in basically doesn't hire MBAs... Great.

Hey bsd_lover, thanks for your response. I'm glad to hear that LBS has worked out for you really well. My first goal is to work in NYC, so I'm not hitting the European schools, but if I were to change my mind, I definitely would give them a try.

That's interesting to note that HR screens CVs looking for "stereotypes". I'm on an uphill battle then. I honestly feel I could land straight-up IB or MC with my background without having to be particularly creative in my networking and selling, and there are even some contacts I have at research-driven PEs and HFs that would probably open the door for me if my MBA was "brand-worthy" enough. Unfortunately, the one thing I'm really gunning for seems so out of reach!

Well, I guess it's not all written in stone yet. Still something I could do.

Have you been hitting banks or the buyside?
CEO
Joined: 17 May 2007
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15 Jun 2010, 14:11
1
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Well in reality I dont know what the HR do - I'm speaking from anecdotal expereinces (in terms of folks who get interviewed and who didn't). I managed to secure a couple of S&T interviews due to networking; my profile is anything but typical. But it was never in doubt that folks with the more relavant backgrounds were going to get the jobs. Its incredibly tough as a career switcher in this climate. However, networking can make a difference so dont be discouraged. However to network effectively you need to be in the spot; its amazing that Chicago folks manage to network with Wall st. - much respect..

For personal reasons I wont go into where / what I'm doing over the summer. But let me put it this way - if you want it bad enough, you'll figure out a way. The toughest door to open is always the first one.

osbornecox wrote:
Hey bsd_lover, thanks for your response. I'm glad to hear that LBS has worked out for you really well. My first goal is to work in NYC, so I'm not hitting the European schools, but if I were to change my mind, I definitely would give them a try.

That's interesting to note that HR screens CVs looking for "stereotypes". I'm on an uphill battle then. I honestly feel I could land straight-up IB or MC with my background without having to be particularly creative in my networking and selling, and there are even some contacts I have at research-driven PEs and HFs that would probably open the door for me if my MBA was "brand-worthy" enough. Unfortunately, the one thing I'm really gunning for seems so out of reach!

Well, I guess it's not all written in stone yet. Still something I could do.

Have you been hitting banks or the buyside?

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Re: structuring   [#permalink] 15 Jun 2010, 14:11
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# structuring

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