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The bricks that were used

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Re: The bricks that were used [#permalink]

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New post 24 Jan 2016, 22:48
Which refers to something that is immediately before it. In this case the use of "which" looks wrong. Can somebody please explain?
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Re: The bricks that were used [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jan 2016, 05:26
apjoshua92 wrote:
Which refers to something that is immediately before it. In this case the use of "which" looks wrong. Can somebody please explain?


"Which" - is a relative pronoun modifier and relative pronoun modifiers act as Noun Modifiers. An important characteristic of Noun Modifiers is that Noun modifiers modify the noun close to the modifier. On this note, "Which" is considered modifying something that is immediately before it ("Which").

This undersanding is not always correct. Always in a sentence "Meaning or intent the sentence" is most IMPORTANT. In certain cases, "Which" can refer to slightly far way noun. (Many such examples are present in the Official Guide). Typically in such cases the structure is - Noun + Short information (prepositional phrase), "Which" - per the meaning of the sentence "Which" can refer to the slightly far away noun.

In this particular question (very specific case) , per the intent of the question "Which" is providing extra information regarding bricks. (as indicated in option E).

Always meaning first and grammar second.

Hope this helps.
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Re: The bricks that were used [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jan 2016, 05:52
@Specter wrote:
@apjoshua92 wrote:
Which refers to something that is immediately before it. In this case the use of "which" looks wrong. Can somebody please explain?


"Which" - is a relative pronoun modifier and relative pronoun modifiers act as Noun Modifiers. An important characteristic of Noun Modifiers is that Noun modifiers modify the noun close to the modifier. On this note, "Which" is considered modifying something that is immediately before it ("Which").

This undersanding is not always correct. Always in a sentence "Meaning or intent the sentence" is most IMPORTANT. In certain cases, "Which" can refer to slightly far way noun. (Many such examples are present in the Official Guide). Typically in such cases the structure is - Noun + Short information (prepositional phrase), "Which" - per the meaning of the sentence "Which" can refer to the slightly far away noun.

In this particular question (very specific case) , per the intent of the question "Which" is providing extra information regarding bricks. (as indicated in option E).

Always meaning first and grammar second.

Hope this helps.


Hi,

I would differ from you on this point..
"which" is ambiguous here, although the answer is the best possible available..
I have always seen GMAT testing it on grammer and not on 'intent'. I would request you to kindly share any OG examples, which you could have come across..
I have seen many testing it, just an example..

(D) The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent...

this option is wrong and reason given is..
The paired concepts of width and depth should be joined by and, not or; this construction calls for two main clauses to be separated by a comma after deep; which is ambiguous

Clearly intent is the erie canal. it has to be a canal only that can connect a river and a lake, BUT OG claims it to be ambiguous..


OUR example is more doubtful on usage of which than the example above...
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Re: The bricks that were used [#permalink]

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New post 08 Mar 2016, 18:57
target2015 wrote:
The bricks that were used in the construction of the West Virginian Georgian mansion of Wappocomo were manufactured in England and used as ballast to stabilize ships loading tobacco in the James River, journeying in bullock carts over the Blue Ridge Mountains and Ridge-and-Valley Appalachians.


wow tough one..
so the bricks were used in the construction
the bricks were manufactured and used..
the bricks journeyed in bullock carts...


Wappocomo were manufactured in England and used as ballast to stabilize ships loading tobacco in the James River, journeying
ing modifier is illogical. bricks were manufactured and used by TRAVELLING? No. were manufactured and used -> and the result these bricks were travelling? no. so ing modifier is incorrect.

Wappocomo were manufactured in England and used as ballast to stabilize ships loading tobacco in the James River, journey
looks like after the coma, we have journey as a subject - but we do not have a verb..+the meaning is not clear.

Wappocomo, manufactured in England and used as ballast to stabilize ships loading tobacco in the James River and journeying
no active verb for the bricks.

Wappocomo, which had been manufactured in England and used as ballast to stabilize ships loading tobacco in the James River, and journeying
no active verb for the bricks

Wappocomo, which had been manufactured in England and used as ballast to stabilize ships loading tobacco in the James River, journeyed
only 1 verb for the bricks - journeyed.
which correctly modifies the bricks - everything that we have after that and up to the "which" is a looong noun modifier presented in a clause. we can ignore it, and see that which makes sense with the head of the noun phrase..

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The bricks that were used [#permalink]

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New post 08 Mar 2016, 19:04
chetan2u wrote:
@Specter wrote:
@apjoshua92 wrote:
Which refers to something that is immediately before it. In this case the use of "which" looks wrong. Can somebody please explain?


"Which" - is a relative pronoun modifier and relative pronoun modifiers act as Noun Modifiers. An important characteristic of Noun Modifiers is that Noun modifiers modify the noun close to the modifier. On this note, "Which" is considered modifying something that is immediately before it ("Which").

This undersanding is not always correct. Always in a sentence "Meaning or intent the sentence" is most IMPORTANT. In certain cases, "Which" can refer to slightly far way noun. (Many such examples are present in the Official Guide). Typically in such cases the structure is - Noun + Short information (prepositional phrase), "Which" - per the meaning of the sentence "Which" can refer to the slightly far away noun.

In this particular question (very specific case) , per the intent of the question "Which" is providing extra information regarding bricks. (as indicated in option E).

Always meaning first and grammar second.

Hope this helps.


Hi,

I would differ from you on this point..
"which" is ambiguous here, although the answer is the best possible available..
I have always seen GMAT testing it on grammer and not on 'intent'. I would request you to kindly share any OG examples, which you could have come across..
I have seen many testing it, just an example..

(D) The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent...

this option is wrong and reason given is..
The paired concepts of width and depth should be joined by and, not or; this construction calls for two main clauses to be separated by a comma after deep; which is ambiguous

Clearly intent is the erie canal. it has to be a canal only that can connect a river and a lake, BUT OG claims it to be ambiguous..


OUR example is more doubtful on usage of which than the example above...


just a quick thought on your example with erie canal - we have S+V ...then which - which cannot jump OVER the verb, though it can easily jump over a long noun phrase and modify the head of the noun phrase.
in this question, we have S (long noun phrase) + which - which modifies the long noun phrase + Verb

it just happened so that I'm currently reviewing this topic on e-gmat..
this is what is explained in the course..

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Re: The bricks that were used [#permalink]

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New post 08 Mar 2016, 19:23
mvictor wrote:
chetan2u wrote:
@Specter wrote:

"Which" - is a relative pronoun modifier and relative pronoun modifiers act as Noun Modifiers. An important characteristic of Noun Modifiers is that Noun modifiers modify the noun close to the modifier. On this note, "Which" is considered modifying something that is immediately before it ("Which").

This undersanding is not always correct. Always in a sentence "Meaning or intent the sentence" is most IMPORTANT. In certain cases, "Which" can refer to slightly far way noun. (Many such examples are present in the Official Guide). Typically in such cases the structure is - Noun + Short information (prepositional phrase), "Which" - per the meaning of the sentence "Which" can refer to the slightly far away noun.

In this particular question (very specific case) , per the intent of the question "Which" is providing extra information regarding bricks. (as indicated in option E).

Always meaning first and grammar second.

Hope this helps.


Hi,

I would differ from you on this point..
"which" is ambiguous here, although the answer is the best possible available..
I have always seen GMAT testing it on grammer and not on 'intent'. I would request you to kindly share any OG examples, which you could have come across..
I have seen many testing it, just an example..

(D) The Erie Canal was seldom more than 40 feet wide or 12 feet deep and it ran 363 miles across the rugged wilderness of upstate New York, which connected the Hudson River at Albany to the Great Lakes at Buffalo, providing the port of New York City with a direct water link to the heartland of the North American continent...

this option is wrong and reason given is..
The paired concepts of width and depth should be joined by and, not or; this construction calls for two main clauses to be separated by a comma after deep; which is ambiguous

Clearly intent is the erie canal. it has to be a canal only that can connect a river and a lake, BUT OG claims it to be ambiguous..


OUR example is more doubtful on usage of which than the example above...


just a quick thought on your example with erie canal - we have S+V ...then which - which cannot jump OVER the verb, though it can easily jump over a long noun phrase and modify the head of the noun phrase.
in this question, we have S (long noun phrase) + which - which modifies the long noun phrase + Verb

it just happened so that I'm currently reviewing this topic on e-gmat..
this is what is explained in the course..


Hi mvictor,

You are correct on the VERB thing, but the example was given in response to

Quote:
Always meaning first and grammar second.


here meaning wise 'which' has to refer to canal, but still it is considered ambiguous...

In the Q about "the bricks that were..", why which cannot refer to MANSION..

As far as the learning from a source is considered, we should stick to the OG, as on many occassions many of them come up with very vague Qs and explanations..
look at one such Q from same source

http://gmatclub.com/forum/debatable-oas-and-qs-structures-by-gmat-institutes-214366.html
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Re: The bricks that were used [#permalink]

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New post 30 Nov 2017, 07:25
Why isn't this question deleted......or OA modified? This question has a blatant obvious error that will CONFUSE new people trying to learn the GMAT.
I'm not quite sure why extensive discussion is required...this question is just not a good question.

In this construction (heh): *construction of the West Virginian Georgian mansion of Wappocomo, which were manufactured in England*

", which" can only modify Wappocomo or mansion, even if we give it steroids, it may ( <1%) modify construction. But there isn't a drug in this world that can make it modify "bricks". "Bricks" is way way too FAR from ", which" and in GMAT, this is unacceptable. :shocked :shocked :shocked :suspect

Mods, can we please flag this question?
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Re: The bricks that were used   [#permalink] 30 Nov 2017, 07:25

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