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The first trenches cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria,

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Re: The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar [#permalink]

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New post 26 Feb 2017, 07:34
A. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but....wordy ...
B. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously with but also..subject-verb agreement
C. having been cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously but...having been awkward
D. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence of centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arising simultaneously but also Subjectverb agreement
E. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arose simultaneously with but ....correct answer
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Re: The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2017, 23:00
The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but independently of the more celebrated city-states of southern Mesopotamia, in what is now southern Iraq.

A. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but
B. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously with but also
C. having been cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously but
D. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence of centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arising simultaneously but also
E. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arose simultaneously with but

My 2 cents on A and E.
I think it is important to realize that "cut into" used on E is in the past tense.
If you don't catch this, choosing E would be difficult.
So the sentence structure is like this.
1. The paint that was created by Picasso.
2. The paint created by Picasso.

Both is ok but 2 is more concise.

Also, for A, I do not think "evidence for" is wrong idiom.
Rather, I think the issue is with for what? It is missing verb there.
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Re: The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar [#permalink]

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New post 24 Apr 2017, 23:20
The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but independently of the more celebrated city-states of southern Mesopotamia, in what is now southern Iraq.

A. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but
B. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously with but also
C. having been cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously but
D. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence of centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arising simultaneously but also
E. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arose simultaneously with but

B and D instant elimination because of yields S-V error
E is correct
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Re: The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at [#permalink]

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New post 26 Apr 2017, 06:20
The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but independently of the more celebrated city-states of southern Mesopotamia, in what is now southern Iraq.

first trenches............have yielded (correct because the evidence still holds true)
that (refers to trenches)..............were cut


evidence for is unidiomatic and should be evidence that.

E is the right answer.
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The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar [#permalink]

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The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but independently of the more celebrated city-states of southern Mesopotamia, in what is now southern Iraq.

A. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but
B. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously with but also
C. having been cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously but
D. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence of centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arising simultaneously but also
E. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arose simultaneously with but



In this question eliminated D and B because but also cannot be used we need "not only" before that
is this approach of mine correct or we can use "but also" alone
If yes can you share exmple where "but also" is used without "not only"
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Re: The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar [#permalink]

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New post 19 May 2017, 00:17
can we use "but also" or do we need to have "not only " before that
can you share an official example if any, where "but also" is used without"not only"
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Re: The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar [#permalink]

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rahulkiller321 wrote:
can we use "but also" or do we need to have "not only " before that
can you share an official example if any, where "but also" is used without"not only"


Logically "but also" can be used indepedently. The difference between the structure (a) "but also" without "not only" and (b) "not only X, but also Y" is as follows.

(a) "But also" without "not only":
The structure would be as follows:
Clause, but (also) Clause.
In this case two clauses are combined by the conjunction "but". No further parallelsim is applicable in such case.
You did your work in time, but you also made many mistakes.... correct.

(b) "Not only X, but also Y":
However for a "not only....but also" structure, the two elements can be anything: noun, verb, participles, modifiers etc.
Noun: I have not only a pen, but also a book.
Verb: I not only have a pen, but also can write with it.

When I come across an official example with the first structure, I shall revert back.
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The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jun 2017, 02:03
The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but independently of the more celebrated city-states of southern Mesopotamia, in what is now southern Iraq.

A. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but - "evidence for" means "evidence because centrally administered complex..." clearly this does not make any sense + twice use of "that" makes it very wordy & complicated
B. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously with but also - "yields" does not work with plural subject "trenches" + twice use of "that" makes it very wordy & complicated
C. having been cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously but - "having been" unnecessarily wordy + "simultaneously" must be followed by "with"
D. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence of centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arising simultaneously but also - "yields" does not work with plural subject "trenches" + "also is not unnecessary
E. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arose simultaneously with but - CORRECT "have" works with plural subject "trenches + "evidence that" is correct
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Re: The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jun 2017, 09:34
Hi all

E. The first trenches cut into............
Is option E in passive voice?


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Re: The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jun 2017, 09:37
carcass wrote:
Your explantion Mike is outstanding but in my opinion who study Sentence Correction more clinically than logically tend to struggle because their view becomes too technical.

I admit the importance and the distinction among the rules to clarify and consolidate the concepts.

however, on the upper level question to catch the gist of the sentence is more important.

Grammar rules lead you to the next level but after some point if you rely too much on rules, you lose the compass.

I didn't ask to myself where "that" standed for and the significance of it.

I understood that "cut" was the key and D was ackward and wrong because if you read the entire sentence it unfolds not so clearly.

Otherwise A student could be stuck in a limbo for endless time. my personal opinion, acceptable or not

For the rest thanks for the super super super amazing explanation :)

To completely understand what I mean here an article (it is like a windfall in this situation) from brian galvin - veritas prep

Fraud or Phenom In Sentence Correction


Best Regards

carcass



Hi carcass

The link in your post is not working. I tried to open the page but the article is not there.




Thanks
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Re: The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jul 2017, 22:52
Why is Ans E?

If we remove that then the second clause will have the missing subject as Trench is already fulfilling subject requirement in the first clause. How can the second clause take subject Trench?
Ans:
cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria,
(missing subject)have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arose simultaneously with but

Looking for the crystal clear answer.
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Re: The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jul 2017, 23:56
dkverma wrote:
The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but independently of the more celebrated city-states of southern Mesopotamia, in what is now southern Iraq.

A. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but
B. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously with but also
C. having been cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously but
D. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence of centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arising simultaneously but also
E. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arose simultaneously with but


A,D are OUT. SV disagreement.
C - What in the world is a present perfect progressive tense doing here? OUT.
B/W A and E.
A - No errors in the first clause, but 'that were cut' modifying trenches is definitely wordy. E is better in this regard
+ A uses 'evidence for' -> evidence for something is different from evidence that reveals something. With the gist of this sentence, we CANNOT use 'evidence for', as it makes no sense.
+ The second 'that' is referring to? Middle-east? or Societies, or regions? Iffy usage, and we can steer clear from it.

E is concise with no errors, and has a clear meaning. WINS.

E is the answer.
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Re: The first trenches cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, [#permalink]

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New post 10 Sep 2017, 20:58
The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but independently of the more celebrated city-states of southern Mesopotamia, in what is now southern Iraq.

(A) that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but

(B) that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously with but also

(C) having been cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously but

(D) cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence of centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arising simultaneously but also

(E) cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arose simultaneously with but
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Re: The first trenches cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, [#permalink]

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New post 11 Sep 2017, 19:36
The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but independently of the more celebrated city-states of southern Mesopotamia, in what is now southern Iraq.

(A) that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but
- "evidence for societies that were arising" = awkward. should be "evidence THAT societies were arising"

(B) that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously with but also
- "yields" = incorrect. the trenches YIELD/HAVE YIELDED

(C) having been cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously but
- "having been cut" = wordy, awkward, inferior to infinitive. also infers passive, and we know the GMAT doesn't like this type of structure

(D) cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence of centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arising simultaneously but also
- same as "B"

(E) cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arose simultaneously with but
- correct as is

key takeaways:
> "evidence THAT" = preferred; "evidence FOR ...VERB-ING (ARISING)" = weird
> SVA: trenches DO NOT YIELDS! TRENCHES YIELD/HAVE YIELDED.
> Other weird: "having been cut" = wordy/awkward...doesn't imply active verb form which GMAT prefers


kudos please if you find helpful :)
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Re: The first trenches cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, [#permalink]

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New post 24 Oct 2017, 04:15
Can we remove choices B,C, & D based on the wrong usage of idiom " simultaneously with but independently of"?
Is my reasoning correct?
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The first trenches cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, [#permalink]

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New post 24 Oct 2017, 06:26
After 4 pages of writind and discussing, we are yet to know why A is wrong? Can it be past - past continuous, evidence for/that, or trenches (that were) cut?

And I really wonder what those more concrete reasons are, Deepak.

mikemcgarry wrote:
"The first trenches that were cut ...." ----- this modifies "trenches" with a subordinate clause, a clause beginning with "that". This is perfectly correct.


daagh wrote:
Let me give a different perspective about the use of active and passive voices here.
Quote:
The trenches that were cut
The trenches cut

IMO, both the above are passive voices. One may say that first one is wordier by two words. You might see that a trench has to be cut by somebody. It cannot cut itself or cut another. The cut is used in the sense of a past participle and not past tense at best; one may say that the first is wordier by two words
So whenever you use trench with the verb cut, it will always be in passive. However a trench can run along some route, when it will be in active voice. I hope this difference is realized
Therefore the reason that A is wrong is because of that idiom, evidence for; evidence that is the accepted idiom, So E wins.


egmat wrote:
TGC wrote:
Hi e-gmat,

As explained in the video explanation in the portal, there is no mention of the two related events .

"were cut" and "were arising".

trenches were cut
societies were arising

Were arising should "describe an ongoing event when the other event occurred".

However, here logically we know that since the trenches provide evidence of the distant past there is no need for progressive tense to keep the sentence simple.

Societies arose is correct and coincidentally it is correct in correct choice too.

However, is above the valid reason to conduct POE as this reason is not mentioned in video explanation @portal.

Please clarify !



Hi Saurabh,

No. This is not the valid reason to eliminate a choice. Since these events happened at a very distant time in the past, using either the simple past tense or the past continuous tense in the context of this sentence does not change the meaning.
So, we cannot eliminate any choice on the basis of this reasoning. Also, as mentioned in the video we have more concrete reasons to eliminate the choices.




Hope this helps! :)
Regards,
Deepak

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The first trenches cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, [#permalink]

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New post 24 Oct 2017, 09:27
Selfmotivated wrote:
Can we remove choices B,C, & D based on the wrong usage of idiom " simultaneously with but independently of"?
Is my reasoning correct?



Hello Selfmotivated,

I will be glad to help you out with this one.

It is true that we need the expression simultaneously with but independent of in the context of this sentence.

Choice B uses the expression simultaneously with but also independent of. This expression is certainly incorrect because but also cannot be used without using not only in a sentence. Hence, Choice B is incorrect.


Choice C uses the expression simultaneously but independent of. This expression is also incorrect because simultaneously must be followed by with for correct grammatical structure. Hence, this choice is incorrect too.


Choice D uses the expression simultaneously but also independent of. This choice combines the expression used in choices B and C and hence is incorrect.

So yes, your reasoning to eliminate Choice B,C, and D is is correct.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Last edited by egmat on 25 Oct 2017, 02:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The first trenches cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, [#permalink]

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New post 24 Oct 2017, 09:58
Scorpi0n wrote:
After 4 pages of writind and discussing, we are yet to know why A is wrong? Can it be past - past continuous, evidence for/that, or trenches (that were) cut?

And I really wonder what those more concrete reasons are, Deepak.




Hello Scorpi0n,

I will be glad to help you out with one. :-)


Following are the reason why Choice A is incorrect.

i. Use of evidence for is incorrect in the context of this sentence. The context makes it clear that the trenches provide evidence about something. The best way to express this meaning is by stating evidence that xyz.

ii. This sentence presents general information about a place in the past context. hence, use of simple present tense verb arose is far better than using the past progressive/continuous tense verb were arising.

The above-mentioned are concrete reasons to eliminate Choice A confidently.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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The first trenches cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, [#permalink]

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New post 24 Oct 2017, 10:55
Quote:
Rhetorical construction; Agreement; Grammatical construction

This sentence, explaining interconnections among a number of events, needs to be streamlined as much as possible in order to become understandable. To this end, unnecessary words and structures should be eliminated. Prominent among these are the relative clauses beginning with that.

Additionally, the subject of this sentence is the plural trenches, which requires a plural verb.
A That were cut ... and that were arising ... are unnecessarily wordy and create an unnecessarily complicated and confusing sentence structure.
B In addition to the unnecessarily wordy relative clauses, the singular verb yields does not agree with the plural subject trenches.
C Having been cut ... is unnecessarily wordy; arising simultaneously must be followed by the preposition with in order to make sense.
D The singular verb yields does not agree with the plural subject trenches; also adds no meaning to the sentence.
E Correct. Unnecessary clauses and phrases are avoided, and the subject and verb of the main clause agree in number.

The correct answer is E.


There is no mention of "evidence for" being wrong.
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Re: The first trenches cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, [#permalink]

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New post 25 Oct 2017, 02:06
egmat wrote:
Selfmotivated wrote:
Can we remove choices B,C, & D based on the wrong usage of idiom " simultaneously with but independently of"?
Is my reasoning correct?



Hello @Selfmotovated,

I will be glad to help you out with this one.

It is true that we need the expression simultaneously with but independent of in the context of this sentence.

Choice B uses the expression simultaneously with but also independent of. This expression is certainly incorrect because but also cannot be used without using not only in a sentence. Hence, Choice B is incorrect.


Choice C uses the expression simultaneously but independent of. This expression is also incorrect because simultaneously must be followed by with for correct grammatical structure. Hence, this choice is incorrect too.


Choice D uses the expression simultaneously but also independent of. This choice combines the expression used in choices B and C and hence is incorrect.

So yes, your reasoning to eliminate Choice B,C, and D is is correct.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha



Thanks for clarifying my doubt.

Regards,
Re: The first trenches cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria,   [#permalink] 25 Oct 2017, 02:06

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