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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]
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Jat wrote:
Why do we need differing instead of differed as stated in OA : E?

Can an expert throw some light?
Thank you,
Jat




Hello Jat,


It is clear from the context of the official sentence that we need the verb-ed modifier determined to refer to the preceding noun local times.

Now we need another modifier for local times that can be parallel to determined. The word differed most definitely looks like an appropriate choice because both these word look similar in structure as they both end in "ed".

However, differed does NOT work as a verb in the context of this official sentence. It works as a simple past tense verb because the local times themselves differed from city to city. A verb can never be parallel to modifier. Hence, differed use of differed is incorrect in this sentence.

We have authored an article named ED FORMS - Verbs or Modifiers that shows hot to distinguish between a simple past tense verb and a verb-ed modifier. The article can be reviewed in the following link:https://gmatclub.com/forum/ed-forms-verbs-or-modifiers-134691.html

Since we need a noun modifier that can be parallel to determined, we need differing, a verb-ing modifier that correctly modifies the noun local times. Although determined and differing have different structures, they are perfectly parallel because they both act as a noun modifier. At e-GMAT, we call such lists with not similar looking parallel elements Imperfect List. We have an elaborate article on the topic that can be reviewed in the following link: https://gmatclub.com/forum/parallelism-imperfect-list-142791.html


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]
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Mizar18 wrote:
Dear GMATNinja

Could you explain what is wrong with (C)?

(C) which were determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing

(E) determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing

I think that (C) and (E) pretty much convey the same meaning, but (C) is a little bit wordier using "which + were" + determing // + differing. Am I right?

Thanks!

There's a subtle difference in meaning too. Take another look at (C):

    "The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which were determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing from city to city."

Notice that "and" indicates a parallel construction. In this case, "differing" seems to be parallel to "determined." In a vacuum, that's fine -- they're both participles. But in this case, "determined" is part of a verb phrase, so the meaning we get is that the local times "were determined... and differing." The times "were differing?" That's an odd construction. Does that mean they're the same now? If that's the case, why not just write that they "were different?"

Now go back to (E):

    "The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing from city to city."

The big difference is that the verb "were" has been omitted, leaving us with the parallel construction, "determined and differing," both participles functioning as adjectives describing the "times." This is better, as we no longer have to grapple with the peculiar meaning of the verb phrase "were differing."

Compared to (C), (E)'s parallel construction produces a clearer, more logical meaning -- in addition to being more concise -- so (E) is our winner.

I hope that helps!
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imSKR wrote:
Quote:
The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing from city to city, and to the establishment of regional times.

(D) determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differed

(E) determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing


Hi AndrewN sir

There is lot of discussion above w.r.t. parallelism between determined vs differing /differed. I am confused with these below points:

Reasons for choosing E over D:
1. determined by vs differing/differed from
differed is not parallel to determined by because determined by - passive and differed from -active?- is it?
2. differed from vs differing from - are these both modifiers? why in some posts, it is mentioned "differed" is past verb but not verb-ed modifier. is it?
3. E wins over D because of meaning issue. Differing makes sense over differed from .is it?

In which above numbers reasoning is wrong? Please suggest.
I am little confused with lot of different explanations in above posts.

Please suggest AndrewN sir

Hello, imSKR. It has been a long day of a long workweek for me, so I am late at getting to this. You want to know how I quickly separated (D) from (E)? I did not bother with the grammar manual. Rather, I considered that and without a comma should join two like entities, and that those two entities should be presentable in either order. For instance, if I say, John and Sue went to the store, I can just as easily say, Sue and John went to the store. With this in mind, I considered just the first part of (D) and (E) in transposed fashion:

(D) The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, differed from city to city AND determined by...
(E) The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, differing from city to city AND determined by...

Choice (D) is clearly lacking. If we want to justify it, we fall back on adding a which in front of differed, but then we need a were before determined. By the time we find a reasonable way to qualify (D), our continuation would no longer resemble (D). Choice (E) wins by a long shot.

I hope that helps. Thank you for thinking to ask me about the question.

- Andrew
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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]
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gauravsirohi93 wrote:
It is kind of a grammar-based question with easy errors. "Which" is wrong as it is referring to the abolition of local times rather than local times. By this, you can eliminate options A, B, and C. In option D and E, "differing" should be there as local times still differs from city to city and not a past thing.

Am I thinking correctly? Could someone please assist me in evaluating the accuracy of my thought process?

Are you thinking correctly? Probably not. Here are two flaws in your reasoning.
Quote:
"Which" is wrong as it is referring to the abolition of local times rather than local times. By this, you can eliminate options A, B, and C.

Flaw 1: The reason for eliminating (A) and (B) is different from the reason for eliminating (C).

Obviously, "which" must refer to local times. Since "which" is positioned directly after "local times", we start by assuming that "which" refers to "local times".

These are the first parts of (A), (B), and (C):
(A) ... the abolition of local times, which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and ...
(B) ... the abolition of local times, which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and ...
(C) ... the abolition of local times, which were determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and ...

One big problem is that (A) and (B) have "which was", so WHICH is singular in (A) and (B), so WHICH can only refer to "the abolition". The abolition was not determined by the sun's position; local times were. That's the reason to eliminate (A) and (B).

(C) has "which were", so WHICH is plural in (C), so WHICH correctly refers to "local times in (C). Local times were determined by the sun's position; the first part of (C) is fine.

Look at the whole of (C) now:
(C) ... the abolition of local times, which were determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and and differing

If we substitute 'local times' for 'which', we get "local times were determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing [from city to city]".
(C) has a problem, a more subtle one. (C) will be eliminated, but not for same reason as (A) and (B) were eliminated.

Quote:
In option D and E, "differing" should be there as local times still differs from city to city and not a past thing

Flaw 2: DIFFERING is not a verb here. It does not have a tense. Read the expert explanations earlier in this chain.

(E) is fine: DETERMINED BY and DIFFERING are both modifers and hence properly parallel.
(D) is not fine: DIFFERED is a verb and it cannot be parallel to DETERMINED BY, which is a modifier.
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Raghav9906

Be careful about applying any absolute rules about comma usage. There are a lot of different reasons to use a comma! Typically, "comma + -ing" will create an adverbial modifier. That's not as common for "comma + -ed," since -ed modifiers are much more likely to be noun modifiers.

However, it is pretty safe to say that a noun modifier will apply to something nearby (usually, but not always, the preceding noun) and will NOT jump all the way back to modify the subject of the clause. Also, remember that if there is a clear and logical way to read the sentence, we should read it that way unless there is something pushing us to read it another way. In other words, if modifying the preceding noun makes sense, but modifying something earlier doesn't, then just DON'T apply the modifier to that earlier thing. If the modifier NEEDED to apply to that earlier noun, but that wasn't clearly indicated, then we'd have a flaw.
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louisbharnabas wrote:
Dear Experts,

I have 2 concerns regarding option E: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing from city to city, and to the establishment of regional times.

1. The presence of the comma after local times.

The sentence can be broken into 2 as follows:

a. The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian, and to the establishment of regional times. - This is ok.

b. The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, differing from city to city, and to the establishment of regional times. - The usage of comma + present participle modifies the entire clause as per MGMAT SC. This changes the intended meaning.

I feel the comma must be removed for this sentence to be correct.


2. The usage of present participle.

The sentence begins with "The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times" to state that the local times have been abolished whereas "differing from city to city" implies that the local times are differing in the present. The sentence seems to illogically suggest that the abolished (past) local times are differing from city to city (present).

Experts, please let me know if there are any errors in my reasoning?

Thanking you in advance.



Hello louisbharnabas,


Your query is pretty old, but I would still like to clarify your doubts. :)

Let's bring in the official sentence with the correct answer choice inserted in it: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing from city to city, and to the establishment of regional times.


1. Please note that the entire modifier determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing from city to city is placed between two commas. If were to remove this modifier from the sentence, then we would remove the comma before differed and the comma after city. Hence, there is no question of differing working as comma + verb-ing that modifies actions and not nouns.


2. The thing to bear in mind is that modifiers do not have ant tense of their own. It is only the verbs that have tense. The modifiers go by the tense used for the main verb of the sentence. Since in this official sentence, the main led is written in simple past tense, both the modifiers determined and differing takes the same tense.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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r19 wrote:
I knew the reason that determined is a modifier and should be parallel with modifier not with verb .but I was not not able to guess "differed from" is a verb. How to check that ?
the test I used to check it is a verb is place" differed from" closer to local times and see if any action is done. in my understanding there was no action and just a modifier. Went with D and my answer was wrong.



Hello r19,

I will be glad to help you with this one. :-)

In Choice D, the word differed is a verb because the local the local times themselves differed from city to city.

Let me present a simple example sentence to make the usage clear.

Local time differs in each of the six time zones in the Unites States.

My project differs from yours in its approach towards problem solving.


In both the above-mentioned sentences, differs acts as a verb.

Same is the usage of the word in simple past tense in Choice D. Hence, this choice stands incorrect because the modifier determined and the verb differed cannot be grammatically parallel.

Choice E rectifies this error by replacing the verb differed with the modifier differing.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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AlexGmat2017 wrote:
ExpertsGlobal5 wrote:
Dear Friends,

Choice A: This answer choice features a subject-verb disagreement between the verb "was" and the noun "local times". This answer choice also fails to maintain parallelism between the phrases "which was determined..." and "differing from city to city". Remember, all elements within a list must be parallel. Thus, this answer choice is incorrect.

Choice B: This answer choice repeats the subject-verb disagreement seen in Option A. Thus, this answer choice is incorrect.

Choice C: This answer choice repeats the parallelism error found in Option A. Thus, this answer choice is incorrect.

Choice D: This answer choice fails to maintain parallelism between the phrases “determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian” and "differed from city to city", as the former is a "verb+ed" modifier phrase and the latter is a verb phrase. Thus, this answer choice is incorrect.

Choice E: This answer choice maintains proper subject-verb agreement and parallelism; the phrase "determined by when..." and "differing from city to city" are verb-based modifying phrases that act upon the noun "local time", making them parallel. Thus, this answer choice is correct.

Hence, E is the best answer choice.

All the best!
Experts' Global Team


Can we slightly change option (C) to make it right?
For example, "which were determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and which were differing..." ?

Reading the (C) option made me think that "which were" was related to both "determined by..." and "differing..."


Hello AlexGmat2017,

Hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, the change you have mentioned here would not make the two phrases parallel, as they would be in two different tenses, the simple past and simple past continuous, respectively.
Hope this helps.

All the best!
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sid0791 wrote:
egmat

Quick Doubt in this.

Although I choose E, going by the meaning that "times differing" would be a continuous action (although differing is not a verb here, as it doesn't have any helping verb with it).

My doubt is, in D, leaving the meaning aside, how could we say that "differed from city to city" is a verb phrase rather than a modifier like "determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian".

Because in my initial analysis for "differing" and "differed" were acting like a modifier, I choose E just because of the meaning.

Please help in this part.



Hello sid0791,

Thank you for the query. :-)

The part "determined by..." and "differed..." talk about the noun "local times". Now, it is only logical to say that the local times differed from city to city. It was not the same in all the cities. However, the local times were determined by something else.

Hence, the word "differed" acts as the simple past tense verb while the word "determined" acts as the verb-ed modifier.

Please read our following article to learn how to distinguish between the simple past tense verb and the verb-ed modifier:
https://gmatclub.com/forum/ed-forms-ver ... 34691.html


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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shrutibhatambre wrote:
i have a doubt ... "determined" (verb-ed participle) after comma should ideally modify the entire clause right.

According to the rule that comma + ed/ing modifier modifies entire clause...

but here we are trying to modify only preceding noun "local times". so why is "determined" better than "which" (as which does modify its nearby noun)

Hi Shruti, such participles generally modify the noun or non-phrase immediately before the participle.

Few official examples:

Fossils of the arm of a sloth, found in Puerto Rico in 1991, have been dated at 34 million years old, making the sloth the earliest known mammal on the Greater Antilles islands.
- Past participle found modifying sloth.

Building on civilizations that preceded them in coastal Peru, the Mochica developed their own elaborate society, based on the cultivation of such crops as corn and beans, the harvesting of fish and seafood, and the exploitation of other wild and domestic resources.
- Past participle based modifying society.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses Past participles, their application and examples in significant detail. If you or someone is interested, PM me your email-id; I can mail the corresponding section.
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PrakritiRoy wrote:
Will "(E) determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing" not be a modifier and modify the subject of. the proceeding clause?


Hello PrakritiRoy,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, unlike the "comma + present participle ("verb+ing")" construction, the "comma + past participle ("determined" in this case)" construction does not modify the entirety of the preceding clause, rather it functions as any other noun modifier does, modifying the noun just before the comma.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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SamzayWarrior wrote:
topmbaseeker wrote:
The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing from city to city, and to the establishment of regional times.

(D) determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differed

(E) determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing


For options D and E- does the part after the comma -modifiers determined by and differed/differing not modify the subject 'The growth of the railroads' rather than local times? Do we not require 'which' to specifically have the modifiers refer to 'local times'? I did understand the explanation of the options but I am wondering if there is a conceptual gap regarding modifiers because while attempting the question I had straightaway rejected D and E because of the above-mentioned confusion.

We don't need "which" for that modifier to modify "local times."

Typically, though not always, a verb-ed modifier modifies the preceding noun or noun phrase regardless of whether the noun and modifier are separated by a comma. So, "determined by when ..." correctly modifies "local times."

While, generally, a verb-ing modifier set off by a comma does not modify the preceding noun or noun phrase, since "differing" is part of a compound modifier that begins with the past participle (verb-ed) "determined," "differing" somehow works there as well.

Interesting structure.
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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]
[quote="egmat"]
(D) determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differed: Incorrect. “determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian” (a verb-ed modifier) is not parallel to “differed from city to city” (a verb phrase). Notice here that “determined” is not a verb here. It is a verb-ed modifier that is modifying “local times”. If it were a verb, ther would be no comma before it and the subject and the verb would be connected properly.


Why "differed from city to city" is a verb phrase and not a verb-ed modifier. In the context of the sentence

The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, determined by when the sun reached the observer’s meridian and differed from city to city, and to the establishment of regional times.

If we omit the red coloured part then "differed" can be treated as verb-ed modifier.

Please explain and make me understand the concept.
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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]
can we say then that meaning superseds grammer ?

.........yes indeed, otherwise what is the point of language if we cant convey the right information!
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sankey wrote:
can we say then that meaning superseds grammer ?

.........yes indeed, otherwise what is the point of language if we cant convey the right information!

Hi Sankey,
I am not sure why you think that "meaning supersedes grammar"? You are correct in saying that the purpose of language (including rules of grammar) is to express the information. Now per the rule of grammar, elements in the list should be parallel to one another. That is the precise rule that is being followed here. So the correct choice uses appropriate grammatical construction to express the meaning.
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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]
egmat wrote:
Hi guys,
The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing from city to city, and to the establishment of regional times.



• The growth of the railroads led to
o the abolition of local times, and
o the establishment of regional times.
• Two characteristics of local times have been mentioned in the sentence:
o they were determined by when the sun reached the observer’s meridian, and
they differed from city to city.



In option D and E, don't we have a clause without a subject?

1. Singular verb “was” does not agree in number with plural subject “local times”. SV must agree in number error.

2. Also “was” seem to be the verb for “abolition of local times”, meaning abolition was determined by when the sun reached the observer’s meridian. This is certainly not the intended logical meaning of the sentence. Meaning error.

3. The two characteristics of “local times” must be parallel to each other. Here, “which was determined by when the sun reached the observer’s meridian” (a clause) is not parallel to “differing from city to city” ( a verb-ed modifier phrase). Parallelism error.

POE:

(A) which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing: Incorrect. Errors discussed above.

(B) which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and which differed: Incorrect. Same SV number agreement and meaning errors as in A.

(C) which were determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing: Incorrect. Same parallelism error as in A.

(D) determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differed: Incorrect. “determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian” (a verb-ed modifier) is not parallel to “differed from city to city” (a verb phrase). Notice here that “determined” is not a verb here. It is a verb-ed modifier that is modifying “local times”. If it were a verb, ther would be no comma before it and the subject and the verb would be connected properly.

(E) determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing: Correct. “determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian” (a verb-ed modifier phrase) is parallel to “differing from city to city” (a verb-ing modifier phrase). Both the modifiers are correctly presenting the characteristics of “local times”. Refer to OG 12#42 to see how verb-ing and verb-ed modifiers can be parallel to each other.



1. SV pair must always agree in number.
2. SV pair must always make sense together.
3. In a list of parallelism, all the entities must be grammatically as well as logically parallel.

The concepts tested in this sentence have been covered in e-gmat concepts:
1. Level 1 - SV - Agree in Number (This concept features in Level 1 Preview Concepts that are available for free. Just register and learn.)
2. Level 2 - SV - Make Sense
3. Level 1 - Parallelism - Identify and Correct
4. Level 1 - Parallelism - Helpful Tips

You can also review our article on this topic by clicking on the following link:
verb-ed-verb-ing-can-be-parallel-126923.html

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
Shraddha



Hi shraddha,

In answer choices D and E, don't we have a sentence which has no subject? could you please also mention a bit about the parallel structure that yu deduced over here

thanks
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Quote:
The increased popularity and availability of televisions has led to the decline of regional dialects, language variations which originate from diverse ethnic and cultural heritages and perpetuated by geographic isolation.

A. which originate from diverse ethnic and cultural heritages and perpetuated
B. that originated from diverse ethnic and cultural heritages and perpetuated
C. originated from diverse ethnic and cultural heritages and perpetuated
D. originating from diverse ethnic and cultural heritages and perpetuated
E. originating from diverse ethnic and cultural heritages and perpetuating


Is OA - D ?

Meaning Analysis
"Language variations...isolation" defines "regional dialects" -- so it should be proper noun phrase

Error
"Language variations which originate" - two errors
* Major error - present tense "originate" makes it a general fact that language variations always originate from diverse ethnic and cultural heritages.
* Minor error - which is non essential modifier, so it is preferable as "comma which"

Choice Analysis
A) As above
B) This is interesting choice - but "that" clause means - now we are talking about a very specific language variations that originated from X and perpetuated by Y - and we are not talking about all language variations. It might mean there might be other type of language variations.
C) Makes "language variations originated" as a complete clause - but creates IC error.
D) Fixes all errors.
E) "language variations perpetuating by X" is wrong - it shall be "perpetuated by"

If there is contention in the answer choices, it will be between B and D.

Please correct me.
GMAT Club Bot
Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]
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