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The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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New post 13 Sep 2013, 21:36
Hi guys, I have a doubt regarding the question in this part "Its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's"


The doubt is regarding the comparison. shouldn't it be like this."Its numbers are now five times greater than they were when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's"

If "they were" was not mentioned does it mean we can take it for granted?Is it a ellipses case?

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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mohnish104 wrote:
daagh wrote:
(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than ------ Numbers is countable hence greater that required – correct choice.

(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than – more than in most contexts to denote more volume or mass and to that extent is no- countable So does not go well with numbers . Generally when a plural noun such as numbers, books, pencils, mountains etc is involved, it entails greater than.

(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were---- their a wrong pronoun

(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had ---- they is a wrong pronoun.

(E) extinction, now with numbers five times greater than --- This is a tricky issue. There is a temptation to allege that the phrase, now with ……. modifies extinction. More importantly, number does not indicate whose numbers it is, which is an Achilles’ heel. However, from whatever dimension, this choice is inferior to Choice A.


Can ypu help me out with this question. I am confused between A AND E


28) The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's.

(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than
(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than
(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were
(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had
(E) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than what they were


Hi mohnish104,
I think either you have made an error in reproducing the question or you are asking a new question,if it is the latter pls. make a separate post for it
I will explain the current question
The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970’s.
(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than
(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than
(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were
(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had
(E) extinction, now with numbers five times greater than

A and E differ mainly because of meaning
The original sentence is stating 2 fact abt gyrfalcon --the bird has survived a close brush with extinction AND its numbers have increase 5 times
so we need two independent clauses or sentences to state the above --this is done with Option A where the two independent clauses are joined by a semicolon;

While E uses a modifier [,now with numbers ..]
The modifier is not required since neither does it explain the earlier clause (how the bird survived a close brush with extinction) nor does it give any more information about it.
So A
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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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New post 10 Nov 2013, 21:21
The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's.

(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than
(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than
(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were
(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had
(E) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than what they were

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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New post 10 Nov 2013, 21:30
mohnish104 wrote:
The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's.

(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than
(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than
(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were
(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had
(E) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than what they were


I belive this question has already been discussed before the-gyrfalcon-an-arctic-bird-of-prey-has-survived-a-close-83884.html

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in case if you have any further doubts pls feel free to post them.
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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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New post 10 Nov 2013, 21:41
Thank you. I searched the forum for the question but didn't find it. I will remove my post.

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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New post 09 Feb 2014, 08:22
gmat6nplus1 wrote:
what confuses me is the comparison. We are comparing "its numbers" to those when the DDT use was sharply restricted, aren't the latter numbers different from the first and thus should be specified with "those"?

The way to read A would be:
its numbers are now five times greater than (its numbers were) when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970’s.

So, there is a logical comparison between two "time indicators": "now" and "when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970’s".

Hopefully I was able to answer your question.

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than Best choice. The comparative elements are the number of now and the number of when ... I believe it's best to use "greater than" because the number itself is unknown and is generally referred to as something whole (uncountable noun in the sentence).

(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than Wrong - "more" should be used with countable nouns. It is true that a "gyrfalcon" is countable noun, but the comparison is between "numbers now" and "[numbers] when". The numbers of either one are really understood as something whole.

(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were Wrong - "their number" must be close to the noun "gyrfalcon" in order to modify it; "what they were" is generally wordy

(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had Wrong - must have conjunction between "extinction" and "now"; "they" must be singular because gyrfalcon is singular;

(E) extinction, now with numbers five times greater than Wrong - imprecise. It's not clear what "numbers" refers to

A

Last edited by mejia401 on 04 Jan 2015, 14:56, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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B/w A and B . More is used for comparing two things.
Ex. I like apples more than oranges.
Greater/Lesser is used to compare similar things.
Ex. The cost of living is greater today than it was ten years ago.
Option C uses their for singular subject so its wrong also they and were are all incorrectly used
Option D uses they same error as C, also the comparison is illogical

hence A is right .
more v/s greater :
More is used for comparing two things.
Greater/Lesser is used to compare similar things.

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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New post 10 May 2015, 06:01
I accept that A is the right answer.. Infact thats what I chose..

However
I am still not convinced why answer choice B is wrong.

I saw some comments above but they are not convincing somehow..

Just by saying "greater than" is preferable to "more than" -- is not a good answer...
Also daagh said "more than" cannot be used for countable items.. -- This is totally wrong.. "more than" can be used for both countable and uncountable items...


Can anyone detail the clear difference between choice A and choice B ???
please..

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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1. Here is an explanation of the nature of the dependent clause by Purdue.
( https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/598/01/)

Dependent Clause
A dependent clause is a group of words that contains a subject and verb but does not express a complete thought. A dependent clause cannot be a sentence. Often a dependent clause is marked by a dependent marker word.
When Jim studied in the Sweet Shop for his chemistry quiz . . . (What happened when he studied? The thought is incomplete.)
Dependent Marker Word
A dependent marker word is a word added to the beginning of an independent clause that makes it into a dependent clause.
When Jim studied in the Sweet Shop for his chemistry quiz, it was very noisy.
Some common dependent markers are: after, although, as, as if, because, before, even if, even though, if, in order to, since, though, unless, until, whatever, when, whenever, whether, and while.

2. Semicolon Usage
Taken from ---(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semicolon)

One of the applications of the semicolon in English includes:

3. Between closely related independent clauses not conjoined with a coordinating conjunction, when the two clauses are balanced, opposed or contradictory:

• My wife would like tea; I would prefer coffee.
• I went to the basketball court; I was told it was closed for cleaning.
• I told Kate she's running for the hills; I wonder if she knew I was joking.

The Link between a Dependent Clause and an Independent Clause

When a dependent clause is used as an adjective or an adverb, it will usually be part of a complex sentence (i.e., a sentence with an independent clause and at least one dependent clause). The link between a dependent clause and an independent clause will often be a subordinating conjunction or a relative pronoun. For example

He literally stitched mail sacks until his fingers bled. -- until is the subordiante conjunction.


So the second sentences in the choices A and B, while are related to the first, are not dependent clauses, since they lack the subordinating conjunctions.

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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New post 03 Oct 2016, 01:27
Ankit04041987 wrote:
The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970’s.
(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than
(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than
(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were
(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had
(E) extinction, now with numbers five times greater than


A - we have 2 options to understad this sentence:
1. its numbers are [now] five times greater than [when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970’s]. - this is very clear that we are comparing the numbers in 2 different time periods.
2. [its numbers] are now five times greater than [when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970’s]. - this makes no sense.

so in option A we have no ambiguity. the rest is fine.

B - "Five times more" is not the correct idiom.

C - "thier" is not the correct pronoun to refer to the singular subject.

D - "they" is not the correct pronoun. in addition, the time sequence does not make any sense: they first had somthing and later it was restricted.

E - "[Now] with numbers five times greater than [when]..." - this answer has good comparison between the 2 time periods. the question is what does it modify?
"with + noun" is a prepositional phrase - which means it can modify verbs or nouns.
- as a noun modifier it modifies the closest noun - extinction. This is clearly not the intended meaning.
- as a verb modifier - it should modify "has survived"- but this modification sounds awkward & illogical (has survived...now with numbers)
Hence E is not correct.

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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New post 31 Oct 2016, 12:27
daagh wrote:
(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than ------ Numbers is countable hence greater than required – correct choice.

(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than – more than in most contexts to denote more volume or mass and to that extent is no- countable So does not go well with numbers . Generally when a plural noun such as numbers, books, pencils, mountains etc is involved, it entails greater than.

(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were---- their is a wrong pronoun

(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had ---- they is a wrong pronoun.

(E) extinction, now with numbers five times greater than --- This is a tricky issue. There is a temptation to allege that the phrase, now with ……. modifies extinction. More importantly, number does not indicate whose numbers it is, which is an Achilles’ heel. However, from whatever dimension, this choice is inferior to Choice A.



I am not sure I understand your explanation correctly. I have seen instances wherein more is used for a countable noun. If not, then I need to start from scratch :oops: :shock:

E.g. Peter has 48 pencils fewer than Sally but 16 pencils more than Kevin.

I think some of the V experts can shed more light on usage more than v/s greater than.

Do we prefer more than when we compare between two objects/quantities and greater than when we compare the same quantity over a period of time? :-D

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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warriorguy wrote:
daagh wrote:
(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than ------ Numbers is countable hence greater than required – correct choice.

(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than – more than in most contexts to denote more volume or mass and to that extent is no- countable So does not go well with numbers . Generally when a plural noun such as numbers, books, pencils, mountains etc is involved, it entails greater than.

(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were---- their is a wrong pronoun

(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had ---- they is a wrong pronoun.

(E) extinction, now with numbers five times greater than --- This is a tricky issue. There is a temptation to allege that the phrase, now with ……. modifies extinction. More importantly, number does not indicate whose numbers it is, which is an Achilles’ heel. However, from whatever dimension, this choice is inferior to Choice A.



I am not sure I understand your explanation correctly. I have seen instances wherein more is used for a countable noun. If not, then I need to start from scratch :oops: :shock:

E.g. Peter has 48 pencils fewer than Sally but 16 pencils more than Kevin.

I think some of the V experts can shed more light on usage more than v/s greater than.

Do we prefer more than when we compare between two objects/quantities and greater than when we compare the same quantity over a period of time? :-D


Following is an excerpt from Manhattan SC guide, which explains the use of "numbers".

"However, numbers is possible in a few contexts. If you wish to make a comparison, use greater than, not more than (which might imply that the quantity of numbers is larger, not the numbers themselves). See the Idiom List for more details.
Wrong: The rare Montauk beaked griffin is not extinct; its NUMBERS are now suspected to be much MORE than before. Right: The rare Montauk beaked griffin is not extinct; its NUMBERS are now suspected to be much GREATER than before."

To explain a bit more on the underlined part above:
5 is greater than 4... correct
The number of boys is the class is greater than the number of girls in the glass.... correct
BUT
There are more boys in the class than there are girls..... correct

When the number itself is compared, use "greater".

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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New post 09 Nov 2016, 18:27
I am still not very clear for why A should use "greater" vs "more". Can someone help? I read all the prior posts but still a little confused. Why? If I see this issue again, I am not sure if I would be able to pick the correct answer.


Split1) Pronoun issue. Gyrfalcon = singular, they = plural. Cannot go together. C and D are out.

Split2) Idiom "greater than" vs "more than". If you want to make a comparison, use "greater than". I believe Split2) is more idiomatic than anything else. Confusing. Here is what I found out as additional reading resouce: https://e-gmat.com/blogs/the-gyrfalcon- ... gpurple72/

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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lalania1 wrote:
I am still not very clear for why A should use "greater" vs "more". Can someone help? I read all the prior posts but still a little confused. Why? If I see this issue again, I am not sure if I would be able to pick the correct answer.


Split1) Pronoun issue. Gyrfalcon = singular, they = plural. Cannot go together. C and D are out.

Split2) Idiom "greater than" vs "more than". If you want to make a comparison, use "greater than". I believe Split2) is more idiomatic than anything else. Confusing. Here is what I found out as additional reading resouce: https://e-gmat.com/blogs/the-gyrfalcon- ... gpurple72/


"more": used for countable noun or uncountable noun.
"greater": used for uncountable nouns including measure of some parameter - measures are always uncountable - it does not matter whether the parameter itself is countable or uncountable.

There are more gyrfalcons in this room than in that room.... correct

The number of gyrfalcons ( say 4) in this room is greater than the number of gyrfalcons (say 3) in that room.... correct
The numbers themselves (4 or 3) are not countable - it is meaningless to say one 4, two 4's etc. in this case.

You can write two 4's on a piece of paper - then 4 is countable.
But if you say there are 4 pens on the table - then 4 becomes uncountable (though pens are countable).

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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New post 16 Feb 2017, 09:28
The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970’s.

Issue: Pronoun | Quantity

Analysis:
1. Looking at options, we can see split between "it" and "they". Since, the non-underlined portion of the sentence uses singular subject, the pronoun in underlined statement should also be singular. (this split eliminates options C and D)
2. We also need to pay attention to the quantity "greater than" vs "more than". Since "numbers of gyrfalcon" is a countable, "greater than" is more preferable.


I have highlight the issues below:

(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than

(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than - "more than" is a non-countable modifier

(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were - pronoun reference issue

(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had - pronoun reference issue

(E) extinction, now with numbers five times greater than - modifier issue

Answer: (A)

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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New post 22 Mar 2017, 09:24
The part after the semicolon in option A - 'its numbers are now five times greater than' is correct as a standalone sentence?

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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New post 22 Mar 2017, 09:25
The part after the semicolon in option A - 'its numbers are now five times greater than' is correct as a standalone sentence?

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close   [#permalink] 22 Mar 2017, 09:25

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