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# The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close

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Senior Manager
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 482

Kudos [?]: 41 [0], given: 342

Concentration: Finance, Marketing
Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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27 Aug 2017, 22:42
The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's.

(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than
(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than

Ron

if you say 'the numbers are more', that means there are 'more numbers' than before. that doesn't make any sense: there aren't more numbers, just bigger numbers.

if you say 'the numbers are greater', though, that means that the numbers have gotten bigger ('greater'). that's what the sentence is supposed to be saying.

Kudos [?]: 41 [0], given: 342

Senior Manager
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Kudos [?]: 41 [0], given: 342

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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04 Sep 2017, 22:49
The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's.

(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than
(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than
(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were
(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had
(E) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than what they were

Numbers are greater not MORE.

what is wrong with E?
extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than what they were

its numbers => gyrfalcon's numbers are now five times greater than they (gyrfalcon's numbers) were
?

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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17 Nov 2017, 22:06
Clearly, competition is between A and B.My logic might be incorrect but I discarded B on the basis of math logic. As we have to always ensure intended meaning of the sentence is not lost.

Greater - let's assume the number 2. What will be 5 times greater than 2 ? 5*2 =10
More - let's assume the number 2. What will be 5 times more than 2? 2+5*2 = 12

Now you can see the difference between both options and choose correct option accordingly. As per question value was 10 not 12.

Thanks,
Arpit

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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18 Nov 2017, 04:39
The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's.

(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than
(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than
(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were
(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had
(E) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than what they were

Numbers are greater not MORE.

what is wrong with E?
extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than what they were

its numbers => gyrfalcon's numbers are now five times greater than they (gyrfalcon's numbers) were
?

Concision - the same idea is expressed in A using three fewer words, and hence A is better than E.

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The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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18 Nov 2017, 04:48
1
KUDOS
Expert's post
NeverGiveUp- Arpit wrote:
Clearly, competition is between A and B.My logic might be incorrect but I discarded B on the basis of math logic. As we have to always ensure intended meaning of the sentence is not lost.

Greater - let's assume the number 2. What will be 5 times greater than 2 ? 5*2 =10
More - let's assume the number 2. What will be 5 times more than 2? 2+5*2 = 12

Now you can see the difference between both options and choose correct option accordingly. As per question value was 10 not 12.

Thanks,
Arpit

Both "more" and "greater" have the same issue:
5 times x = 5x
5 times greater (or more) than x = x + 5x.

If you want to imply 5x, then you should use five times the number or 5 times the amount (neither "greater" nor "more" should be used). The words "greater" and "more" both bring in the concept of addition, not multiplication.

Hence the logic you mentioned cannot be used to differentiate between "greater" and "more".

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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26 Nov 2017, 07:40
Could you pls explain the nuances between choice A and E, and why choice A is better than E.

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The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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27 Nov 2017, 15:48
sayantanc2k wrote:
AkshayKS21 wrote:
Quote:
(A) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than
(B) extinction; its numbers are now five times more than
(C) extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were
(D) extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had
(E) extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than what they were

Here is E dropped just because A is concise? Do we have any solid reasoning for dropping E and selecting A?

The use of "what" creates a wrong comparison - the correct comparison is between two adverbs (time references) - "now" and "when...." ( as in A.)

In E, introduction of "what" makes the comparion between an adverb "now" and a pronoun "what". Alternatively E could have been constructed as follows:
....its numbers are now five times greater than what they were..... In this case the comparison would be between two clauses "its numbers are now" and "they were when..."

Thank you, sayantanc2k. Your explanation actually tries to explain why this "almost-correct" version of option E is incorrect.

Although I would note that in OG 2017, option E has a comma instead of a semi-colon, which provides an additional reason why E is incorrect. I think the reason they did this is because, as much as I agree with your explanation, E with the semi-colon is very ambiguous.

Consider these two sentences:
"Goku's power levels are now five times greater than the levels which he demonstrated in the past"
"Goku's power levels are now five times greater than what he demonstrated in the past"

I gather that the first sentence is better than the second, but the second one isn't necessarily wrong, right? Now is parallel with "in the past," which could be replaced with the more direct adverb "previously."
Also, while a dangling "what" is a little awkward, it is merely a substantive modifier, as it were, standing in for "the levels" in my example and "its numbers" in the OG example.

Thoughts?

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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29 Nov 2017, 07:22
Kunal14792 wrote:
Could you pls explain the nuances between choice A and E, and why choice A is better than E.

https://gmatclub.com/forum/the-gyrfalco ... l#p1964424

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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30 Nov 2017, 21:04
I respectfully disagree with this analysis. There is nothing wrong with 'what they were.' I think people here are trying to justify the given 'OA', which I think actually belongs to another version of this question. No one has convincingly justified his/her choice of A over E. My take is that E is the correct solution.

abhimahna wrote:
AkshayKS21 wrote:
Here is E dropped just because A is concise? Do we have any solid reasoning for dropping E and selecting A?

Hi AkshayKS21 ,

'what they were ' is a wrong construction, which is almost always incorrect on GMAT.

Hence, E can NEVER be the right answer.

_________________

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Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close [#permalink]

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02 Dec 2017, 09:54
Hello,

Since it seems to be a controversial question, letter E in OG 2018 Review is different from the original one; Follows the most recent option:

(E) extinction, now with numbers five times greater than

In this case, it is easier to agree with OA (letter A). 1) Letter E uses a comma, instead of a semi-colon; (2) In letter E, the second clause (the on beginning with 'with') has no verb.

Best,

Kudos [?]: 6 [0], given: 6

Re: The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close   [#permalink] 02 Dec 2017, 09:54

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# The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close

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