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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
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I can't supply an official question that switches "it" in this way--the one I sent is the only case I saw in the current OG--but what I said before holds just the same for "it" as for any other pronoun. We have to use context and meaning, and of course we have to work with the available choices. We can't simply cut anything that switches the antecedent.

As for the quote from our guide, we appear to have softened the language in our latest All the Verbal guide (we turned must into should and took out the "unacceptable" part). But even for the edition you're looking at, context is important. Note that this excerpt is under the heading "Some Ambiguity Is Acceptable" and begins with "in theory"! This is definitely not a rule. Honestly, absolute rules are much rarer in English usage than most people would like to think!
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
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himanshu0123 wrote:
in A]


In choices A and B, the modifier "having..." follows
The intricate structure of the compound insect eye
This is not a clause, because there's no verb. (It's just "structure", with an adjective in front and a modifier behind.)

Because there's no clause here at all, this modifier can't modify a clause. This is situation #1 in my last post.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
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Sneha2021 wrote:
GMATNinja KarishmaB

(B) having hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that they
Why "they" can't refer to miniature eyes?
Since miniature eyes is part of compound insect eye, the comparison can be considered correct.

In C & D, What's the role of "Scientist assuming"? Is it object of main clause? Please help to understand the sentence structure.

Thank you for your help!



The compound insect eye is composed of miniature eyes. When you compare the vertebrate eye, it is logical that you will compare it with the insect eye, not with a component of the insect eye. Hence, we must use 'it,' not 'they.'

'explain' is the bare infinitive. They appear with modal verbs and verbs of perception etc.
The 'why scientists have assumed that it ... ' is a noun clause that answers 'explains what?'

The possessive with the gerund (scientist's assuming) is awkward here. We could use a noun though e.g. ... helps explain the scientist's assumption ...
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
I figured out the errors with each answer choice much similar to the ways listed above. I was looking at one point in OG answer explanation that "using 'assuming' with possesive 'scientists'' form" is incorrect. Say, if i change answer (C) as below, will it be correct.

(C) with its hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain scientists' ASSUMPTION that IT
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
Could somebody please clarify me how "with" is different from "having" here.

How is it that "having" is modifying "structure", while "with" is modifying "compound insect eye". Kindly help me understand the usage of with here.

Thanks a lot GmatClub.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.

A having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it
B having hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that they
C with its hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain scientists' assuming that they
D with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain scientists' assuming that it
E with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that it


This sentence addresses why scientists have decided that the vertebrate eye arid the insect eye evolved independently of each other. The insect eye is much more intricate, with hundreds of miniature eyes. The sentence needs to be clear as to what has hundreds of miniature eyes. The structure or the insect eye? Furthermore, the singular subject intricate structure requires the singular verb helps.

A. having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it
having..modified subject of the preceding clause "The intricate structure" and meaning looks like The intricate
structure has miniature eyes(insect eye has miniature eyes).so this option is out


B. having hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that they
Option B is out for the same reason as given in Option A.

C. with its hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain scientists' assuming that they
The intricate structure ...helps(correct). they(plural) is refer to back to The intricate structure(singular)..so
Incorrect


D. with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain scientists' assuming that it
The intricate structure ...help(incorrect)

E. with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that it
The intricate structure ...helps(correct).It refers to The intricate structure...Correct.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.

A having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it
B having hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that they
C with its hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain scientists' assuming that they
D with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain scientists' assuming that it
E with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that it

Sir,

This is OG13 Q7 SC. I have seen your Video on You tube, but still I have a doubt.

As per my understanding comma+with modifies the action in the preceding clause.

This is not a clause "The intricate structure of the compound insect eye". Since it doesnt have SV pair (verb missing). How come comma+with modify anything before it?
If there would have been no comma then the case be different. I think w/o comma with modifies the closest noun. Please help me where do I have Knowledge Gap.

OA : E
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
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honchos wrote:
The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.

A having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it
B having hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that they
C with its hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain scientists' assuming that they
D with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain scientists' assuming that it
E with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that it

Sir,

This is OG13 Q7 SC. I have seen your Video on You tube, but still I have a doubt.

As per my understanding comma+with modifies the action in the preceding clause.

This is not a clause "The intricate structure of the compound insect eye". Since it doesnt have SV pair (verb missing). How come comma+with modify anything before it?
If there would have been no comma then the case be different. I think w/o comma with modifies the closest noun. Please help me where do I have Knowledge Gap.

OA : E

Dear honchos,
I'm happy to respond, my friend. :-)

I don't know where you have heard that rule about "comma + with," but that's too rigid. The preposition "with" is very common, and it could come after a comma for any one of a number of reasons. A prepositional phrase beginning with the word "with" can be a adjectival phrase, that is, a noun modifier, or it can be an adverbial phrase, that is, a verb or clause modifier. If the "with" prepositional phrase acts as a clause modifier, then, yes, it is likely to come after a comma. Here, the "with" phrase is a noun modifier, modifying the noun "eye." It is set off by commas because it is a non-vital modifier. See:
https://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/that-vs-which-on-the-gmat/
https://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-gramm ... modifiers/
Does all this make sense, my friend?
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
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daagh Can singular pronoun it refers to Eye which is in preposition structure?

daagh wrote:
A case of SV mismatch and pronoun ambiguity and reference. The subject is the singular structure and the verb therefore should be helps, which is three in B, C and E. In B. the plural pronoun, they refer to anything plural but what is in issue is the singular insect eye that is compared with vertebrate eye. C also has the same pronoun mis - reference as in B. E remains with the use of the singular verb helps and singular pronoun it
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
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@gmatbustrs


https://gmatclub.com/forum/can-a-pronou ... 16982.html

Akash wrote

Can a Pronoun refer to a Noun that is a part of a prepositional phrase


Doubt- How "it" can refer to "trouble" because "trouble" is a part of a prepositional phrase that acts as an Adjective - so how a Pronoun can refer to an adjective?

Dear DAakash7,

I'm happy to respond.

With all due respect, my friend, you are strictly following a rule that simply does not exist. I don't know whether some faulty source suggested that this should be a rule, but it's not. Grammar is hard enough! Don't complicate it further by introducing rules that don't exist!

Any noun anywhere in the sentence, in any role, can be the antecedent of a pronoun, as long as the noun is not in the possessive form. It doesn't matter whether the noun is the subject, the object of a verb, or the object of a prepositional phrase.

Hadyn's symphonies are ..... and he thought .... = mistake: antecedent in the possessive

The symphonies of Haydn are ... and he thought ... = 100% correct

It doesn't matter that "of Haydn" has more or less the same logical meaning as "Haydn's." The latter is in the possessive form, and cannot be an antecedent, but the former is not in the possessive form, so it can be the antecedent.

Does all this make sense?
Mike
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
blueseas wrote:
gmatter0913 wrote:
Could somebody please clarify me how "with" is different from "having" here.

How is it that "having" is modifying "structure", while "with" is modifying "compound insect eye". Kindly help me understand the usage of with here.

Thanks a lot GmatClub.


hi

having = have + ing = verb + ing.
verb-ing modifiers are very versatile modifiers.
there are two case


if verb-ing modifiers appear after a clause and is preceeded by comma ,then it modifies the entire preceeding clause.It
a) either presents additional information about the preceeding clause or
b) result of the preceeding clause.


if verb-ing modifiers appears without a comma==>it modifies the immediate noun.

now in our question:

The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.

so according to rule HAVING is modifying the entire preceeding clause....
so in this sentence ...meanig coming out: intricate structure are having hundreds of miniature eyes==> this is illogical as structure cant have eyes...
hence we can eliminate all the option using HAVING


please refre to this also.

https://gmatclub.com/forum/usage-of-verb ... 35220.html


hope it makes sense now.




Hi,

why is the following clause illogical?? intricate structure are having hundreds of miniature eyes

at many sources it is given that this is illogical, But I am not able to comprehend this.

Please help me with this.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
kanthaliya wrote:
blueseas wrote:
gmatter0913 wrote:
Could somebody please clarify me how "with" is different from "having" here.

How is it that "having" is modifying "structure", while "with" is modifying "compound insect eye". Kindly help me understand the usage of with here.

Thanks a lot GmatClub.


hi

having = have + ing = verb + ing.
verb-ing modifiers are very versatile modifiers.
there are two case


if verb-ing modifiers appear after a clause and is preceeded by comma ,then it modifies the entire preceeding clause.It
a) either presents additional information about the preceeding clause or
b) result of the preceeding clause.


if verb-ing modifiers appears without a comma==>it modifies the immediate noun.

now in our question:

The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.

so according to rule HAVING is modifying the entire preceeding clause....
so in this sentence ...meanig coming out: intricate structure are having hundreds of miniature eyes==> this is illogical as structure cant have eyes...
hence we can eliminate all the option using HAVING


please refre to this also.

https://gmatclub.com/forum/usage-of-verb ... 35220.html


hope it makes sense now.




Hi,

why is the following clause illogical?? intricate structure are having hundreds of miniature eyes

at many sources it is given that this is illogical, But I am not able to comprehend this.

Please help me with this.



Hi kanthaliya


Hi well the verbing modifier here is certainly used in the role to modify preceding noun, but we have two noun's in preceding noun phrase 'the intricate structure' and Compound insect eye. Well i don't know if structure can have miniature eyes or compound insect eye can have miniature of eyes. Both seem logical to me . ( but i did research on the insect eye, having miniature of eyes should refer to compound insect eye)

intricate structure are having hundreds of miniature eyes We have SV does not agree in number error here.
Say we had the below clause

(A)intricate structure is having hundreds of miniature eyes

(B)compound insect eye is having hundreds of miniature eyes

Can we say A is right and B is wrong,or B is right or A is wrong.

(C)Structure of Insect eyes , in which insect eye is having blah blah blah, helps explain blah blah

(D)Structure of Insect eyes , in which structure is having blah blah blah, helps explain blah blah
Logically if you see C make more sense than D.

Now, since we have this ambiguity we can get rid of this with a better choice.

I am sure you must have spotted other errors with this option

Note both Options A and B are wrong for several other reasons too .
Option A: Apart from Modifier ambiguity , the singular subject “structure” doesn’t agree with the plural verb “help”.

Option B : Apart from modifier ambiguity we have "they” refers to “miniature eyes”, which is not the logical referent .we need a singular pronoun to refer to compound insect eye.
Also note "that are called ommatida" is unnecessary as it makes the choice too wordy. the original sentence did convey the same information in precise manner.

Hope this helps

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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
Hi daagh egmat
In the correct choice E, I thought "why" shouldn't be used as a pronoun because it's a question form.
I think many of the choices in other SC questions were rejected because "why" was used as a pronoun.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
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1. It is not clear whether 'why' is ever used as a pronoun. At least I don't remember an example off-hand. If it were a pronoun, one should be logically able to explain what that pronoun stands for. We can't find a suitable noun in this given context. We can see it as an adverb of reason at best.
2. Declarative statement form: I don't know when he will appear for the test
Question form: When will he appear for the test?

One may also note that if it were a question, then the sentence should end with a question mark.
.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
daagh wrote:
A case of SV mismatch and pronoun ambiguity and reference. The subject is the singular structure and the verb therefore should be helps, which is three in B, C and E. In B. the plural pronoun, they refer to anything plural but what is in issue is the singular insect eye that is compared with vertebrate eye. C also has the same pronoun mis - reference as in B. E remains with the use of the singular verb helps and singular pronoun it


hi daagh

I have a question about pronoun errors. Would appreciate if you could have a look:

I am modifying the sentence to ask my query. If the sentence were as follows: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain why the scientist has assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.
Here "it" logically ONLY refers back to the compound insect eye but it COULD (without logic) also refer to the singular "scientist". Now, would I eliminate this answer choice because "it" COULD have two antecedents (one logical, the other illogical) or keep it cus "it" actually has only one LOGICAL antecedent?
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
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Kristi

1. The scientist cannot be a true noun since the word 'the scientist' is not available per se.
2. Even if anyone choice has the singular ‘Scientist’, you know it is illogical, and hence is not in contention. You can ignore the illogical reference and be confirmed that the pronoun has only one eligible contender.
3. But the real problem lies in that there are two singular structures already in the sentence. 1. the intricate structure.( the subject of the sentence) 2. The compound eye. (an object of the preposition) . As per protocol, the subject has the first right of reference for the pronoun. But this is not 100 percent true. In the given case, a true comparison is between the compound eye and the vertebrate eye. None of the choices even indicate anything more about the way the vertebrate eye developed. Therefor logical meaning trumps the technical grammar.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
Dear DmitryFarber GMATGuruNY,

I have some questions on the pronoun reference.

Quote:
The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, with ITS hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that IT evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.

When a pronoun is repeated within a single clause, the referent must be the same in each case.
Here, ITS and IT must have the same referent.

However, MGMAT 6th edition says the opposite that:
Quote:
some correct GMAT sentences do use different pronouns of the same class to refer to different nouns

I've attached the picture for your reference.

Have you ever seen such case that MGMAT mentions?
(I note, however, that MGMAT stance has flipped their stance from 5th edition. So, I think there should be official precedent for them to change their mind.)
Attachments

pronoun ambiguity.jpg
pronoun ambiguity.jpg [ 217.87 KiB | Viewed 4384 times ]


Originally posted by kornn on 30 May 2020, 01:35.
Last edited by bb on 12 Apr 2021, 13:10, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of [#permalink]
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