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The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of

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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jun 2018, 08:46
gmatbusters

Quote:
Can singular pronoun it refers to Eye which is in preposition structure?

Here are my two cents:
Yes, the rule which you are referring might be pointing that the prepositional phrase can not take subject of the verb.
Here : of the compound insect eye is the prepositional phrase can not determine the verb, but the verb is determined by:
The intricate structure of the compound insect eye. The pronoun (even modifier) can refer back to the subject in prepositional phrase.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jun 2018, 09:28
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@gmatbustrs


https://gmatclub.com/forum/can-a-pronou ... 16982.html

Akash wrote

Can a Pronoun refer to a Noun that is a part of a prepositional phrase


Doubt- How "it" can refer to "trouble" because "trouble" is a part of a prepositional phrase that acts as an Adjective - so how a Pronoun can refer to an adjective?

Dear DAakash7,

I'm happy to respond.

With all due respect, my friend, you are strictly following a rule that simply does not exist. I don't know whether some faulty source suggested that this should be a rule, but it's not. Grammar is hard enough! Don't complicate it further by introducing rules that don't exist!

Any noun anywhere in the sentence, in any role, can be the antecedent of a pronoun, as long as the noun is not in the possessive form. It doesn't matter whether the noun is the subject, the object of a verb, or the object of a prepositional phrase.

Hadyn's symphonies are ..... and he thought .... = mistake: antecedent in the possessive

The symphonies of Haydn are ... and he thought ... = 100% correct

It doesn't matter that "of Haydn" has more or less the same logical meaning as "Haydn's." The latter is in the possessive form, and cannot be an antecedent, but the former is not in the possessive form, so it can be the antecedent.

Does all this make sense?
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jun 2018, 10:32
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The focus is a comparison between the insect eye and the vertebrate eye. Otherwise, we may wrongly lead to the weighing of a structure with some other eye
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 30 Aug 2018, 21:05
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hi experts,

1) here i feel it is ambiguously referring to both intricate structure and compound eye,
please throw some light on how u all are assuming that it refers to compound eye ?


thanks

Originally posted by Cheryn on 30 Aug 2018, 20:13.
Last edited by Cheryn on 30 Aug 2018, 21:05, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Aug 2018, 20:33
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Cheryn wrote:
hi experts,

here i feel it is ambiguously referring to both intricate structure and compound eye,
please throw some light on how u all are assuming that it refers to compound eye ?

thanks

Hi Cheryn
I'm not an expert, but if my 2 cents could be of some help here.
The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.

"having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia" modifies the entire preceding clause "The intricate structure of the compound insect eye"

The subject here in the sentence is "The intricate structure of the compound insect eye" which is singular.

IT basically refers back to the whole main subject i.e. a noun phrase here.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Aug 2018, 21:09
2
thanks himanshu, (though i am not convinced with your reply , i am sorry) .i think, here it is actually referring to the compound eye .

btw, experts,

one more doubt is how with along with called xxxx referring to compound eye but not intricate structure... ( i have gone through earlier posts also nowhere it is mentioned "with" can refer to the noun in the prepositional phrase. even in the eg quoted

Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging like socks on a clothesline.

here, with is not referring to the branches it can modify either noun or preceding clause)

thanks
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Sep 2018, 16:11
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Hello Everyone!

Let's take a close look at this question, one problem at a time, to come up with the right answer quickly! Before we dive in, here is the original question with the major differences between each option highlighted in orange:

The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.

(A) having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it
(B) having hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that they
(C) with its hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain scientists' assuming that they
(D) with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain scientists' assuming that it
(E) with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that it

Right away, 3 major differences jump out between each option:

1. having hundreds / with its hundreds
2. help / helps
3. it / they


#2 and #3 on the list are both easy concepts to deal with, so let's start there before getting to #1 on the list, which is a little more complicated.

#2 on our list deals with subject/verb agreement. We know that the subject is the singular word "structure." Let's rule out any options that use the plural verb "help," which doesn't agree in number with our singular subject!

(A) having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it
(B) having hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that they
(C) with its hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain scientists' assuming that they
(D) with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain scientists' assuming that it
(E) with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that it

There you go - right away, we can eliminate options A & D because they don't follow proper subject/verb agreement!

Now, let's tackle #3 on our list: it/they. This is an issue of pronoun/antecedent agreement! The pronouns are referring back again to our subject: structure. Let's rule out any options that use the plural pronoun "they" because it doesn't agree in number with our singular antecedent:

(B) having hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that they
(C) with its hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain scientists' assuming that they
(E) with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that it

This leaves us with only one option left - option E, which is the correct answer! It uses proper subject/verb agreement and pronoun/antecedent agreement throughout!

(If you're wondering why we skipped over #1 on our list, it's because both constructions are actually okay to use. Instead of wasting time fretting over something that looks confusing, start with the easy differences first, such as subject/verb agreement or pronoun/antecedent agreement. Most of the time, those will rule out enough options for you to choose the correct overall answer. If not, then you can take more time to deal with the more complicated stuff.)


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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Sep 2018, 12:16
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Cheryn wrote:
thanks himanshu, (though i am not convinced with your reply , i am sorry) .i think, here it is actually referring to the compound eye .

btw, experts,

one more doubt is how with along with called xxxx referring to compound eye but not intricate structure... ( i have gone through earlier posts also nowhere it is mentioned "with" can refer to the noun in the prepositional phrase. even in the eg quoted

Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging like socks on a clothesline.

here, with is not referring to the branches it can modify either noun or preceding clause)

thanks

Hi Cheryn and HimanshuW11,
Well Many have discussed this question from getting to right answer, i wanted a different approach on this question , as to what all is wrong in the original sentence, and what is role played by each segment of sentence

First
Most replies that i have read above regarding role played by "helping" are stating that "helping blah blah blah " is modifying preceding clause. But what precedes 'helping" is not a clause its a noun phrase.
Second
there is another role played by verb+ing it can also modify preceding noun
Eg " Probus , wearing a black suite, enthralled everyone at the meeting. Clearly we see that verb-ing here is giving more information about the preceding noun.

In the original statement also , it plays the role of giving more information about noun ( i am not expert but logically this should be the role played by the verb -ing modifier)
The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia,

Now if we ask ourselves what is having hundreds of eyes ?
Structure is having something
Compound insect eye is having something .
So in my opinion we do have a modifier error ( ambiguity)
( actually i googled and learn about the structure of insect eye https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU6bgQnTi18)
i was then clear that this modifier must logically refer to compound insect eye . Which means the complete eye is made up of / or is having number of small eyes. )

Correct answer choice .
The intricate structure of the compound insect eye,


with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, { Modifier }


helps explain

why scientists have assumed ( this part modifies explain , giving more information about explain what )

that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye { " that"dependent clause modifying “assumed }

Now " with " can either modify entire preceding clause or noun . Again notice what precedes "with" is not a clause , but a noun phrase. So definitely its modifying a noun . But which noun from the noun phrase does it modify.

remember the basic purpose of modifiers is to provide more information

Lets see.

It makes no sense to say
the complex structure (, with 100 of miniature eyes. blah blah ,) of compound insect eye .

the complex structure of compound insect eye , ( with 100 of miniature eyes. blah blah ). Yes this does make sense.

I don't know if this helps, but should you see any flaw please do point them so that i could learn too.



Comming to question you posted

Visitors to the park
have often looked up into the leafy canopy
and seen monkeys sleeping on the branches,
with arms and legs hanging like socks on a clothesline.

Now logically 'with arms and legs hanging like socks on a clothesline' is modifying the preceding clause

Visitors have seen monkeys sleeping on the branches

Monkeys' arms and legs are hung like socks on a clothesline.

The way monkeys are sleeping on branches ( WITH ITS ARMS AND LEGS HANGING FROM BRANCHES ) its comparable to (SOCKS ON A CLOTHE LINE )

So arms and legs are imagined as socks and branches as cloth line

So " 'with arms and legs hanging like socks on a clothesline" is modifying the preceding clause and the subject of that is monkey's


Again any flaws in above reasoning , let me know will learn and correct that.

Thanks
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Oct 2018, 02:24
blueseas wrote:
gmatter0913 wrote:
Could somebody please clarify me how "with" is different from "having" here.

How is it that "having" is modifying "structure", while "with" is modifying "compound insect eye". Kindly help me understand the usage of with here.

Thanks a lot GmatClub.


hi

having = have + ing = verb + ing.
verb-ing modifiers are very versatile modifiers.
there are two case


if verb-ing modifiers appear after a clause and is preceeded by comma ,then it modifies the entire preceeding clause.It
a) either presents additional information about the preceeding clause or
b) result of the preceeding clause.


if verb-ing modifiers appears without a comma==>it modifies the immediate noun.

now in our question:

The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.

so according to rule HAVING is modifying the entire preceeding clause....
so in this sentence ...meanig coming out: intricate structure are having hundreds of miniature eyes==> this is illogical as structure cant have eyes...
hence we can eliminate all the option using HAVING


please refre to this also.

http://gmatclub.com/forum/usage-of-verb ... 35220.html


hope it makes sense now.




Hi,

why is the following clause illogical?? intricate structure are having hundreds of miniature eyes

at many sources it is given that this is illogical, But I am not able to comprehend this.

Please help me with this.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Oct 2018, 12:02
kanthaliya wrote:
blueseas wrote:
gmatter0913 wrote:
Could somebody please clarify me how "with" is different from "having" here.

How is it that "having" is modifying "structure", while "with" is modifying "compound insect eye". Kindly help me understand the usage of with here.

Thanks a lot GmatClub.


hi

having = have + ing = verb + ing.
verb-ing modifiers are very versatile modifiers.
there are two case


if verb-ing modifiers appear after a clause and is preceeded by comma ,then it modifies the entire preceeding clause.It
a) either presents additional information about the preceeding clause or
b) result of the preceeding clause.


if verb-ing modifiers appears without a comma==>it modifies the immediate noun.

now in our question:

The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.

so according to rule HAVING is modifying the entire preceeding clause....
so in this sentence ...meanig coming out: intricate structure are having hundreds of miniature eyes==> this is illogical as structure cant have eyes...
hence we can eliminate all the option using HAVING


please refre to this also.

http://gmatclub.com/forum/usage-of-verb ... 35220.html


hope it makes sense now.




Hi,

why is the following clause illogical?? intricate structure are having hundreds of miniature eyes

at many sources it is given that this is illogical, But I am not able to comprehend this.

Please help me with this.



Hi kanthaliya


Hi well the verbing modifier here is certainly used in the role to modify preceding noun, but we have two noun's in preceding noun phrase 'the intricate structure' and Compound insect eye. Well i don't know if structure can have miniature eyes or compound insect eye can have miniature of eyes. Both seem logical to me . ( but i did research on the insect eye, having miniature of eyes should refer to compound insect eye)

intricate structure are having hundreds of miniature eyes We have SV does not agree in number error here.
Say we had the below clause

(A)intricate structure is having hundreds of miniature eyes

(B)compound insect eye is having hundreds of miniature eyes

Can we say A is right and B is wrong,or B is right or A is wrong.

(C)Structure of Insect eyes , in which insect eye is having blah blah blah, helps explain blah blah

(D)Structure of Insect eyes , in which structure is having blah blah blah, helps explain blah blah
Logically if you see C make more sense than D.

Now, since we have this ambiguity we can get rid of this with a better choice.

I am sure you must have spotted other errors with this option

Note both Options A and B are wrong for several other reasons too .
Option A: Apart from Modifier ambiguity , the singular subject “structure” doesn’t agree with the plural verb “help”.

Option B : Apart from modifier ambiguity we have "they” refers to “miniature eyes”, which is not the logical referent .we need a singular pronoun to refer to compound insect eye.
Also note "that are called ommatida" is unnecessary as it makes the choice too wordy. the original sentence did convey the same information in precise manner.

Hope this helps

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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Feb 2019, 18:04
Hi!

In the OG, says that the pronoun "IT" of answer choice E refers back to the noun "the compound insect eye." Is that possible? I thought the pronoun has as an antecedent the singular noun "structure." Can we refer to the noun in the prepositional phrase "of the compound insect eye" ???
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New post 18 Feb 2019, 23:36
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The debated ambiguity of the pronoun seems to be eternal.

Here is the original choice E. -----with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.

Let's us evaluate both the debated antecedents, the structure, and the compound eye


1. with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that the structure evolved independently of the vertebrate eye. ------- Here, the comparison is between a type structure and a type of eye
.
2. with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that the compound eye evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.---- Here the comparison is between a type of eye and another type of eye.

Now we can see why E holds well in the given context

The precise intention of this choice by GMAT is to find out, whether a test taker can discriminate an apparent comparison from a genuine comparison.

Any doubt about the veracity of the antecedence is understandable until we knew the GMAT's point. However, to persist with our own sense of ambiguity after that point may not help.
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New post 27 Feb 2019, 04:33
Hi daagh egmat
In the correct choice E, I thought "why" shouldn't be used as a pronoun because it's a question form.
I think many of the choices in other SC questions were rejected because "why" was used as a pronoun.
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New post 27 Feb 2019, 07:47
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1. It is not clear whether 'why' is ever used as a pronoun. At least I don't remember an example off-hand. If it were a pronoun, one should be logically able to explain what that pronoun stands for. We can't find a suitable noun in this given context. We can see it as an adverb of reason at best.
2. Declarative statement form: I don't know when he will appear for the test
Question form: When will he appear for the test?

One may also note that if it were a question, then the sentence should end with a question mark.
.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Mar 2020, 11:12
daagh wrote:
A case of SV mismatch and pronoun ambiguity and reference. The subject is the singular structure and the verb therefore should be helps, which is three in B, C and E. In B. the plural pronoun, they refer to anything plural but what is in issue is the singular insect eye that is compared with vertebrate eye. C also has the same pronoun mis - reference as in B. E remains with the use of the singular verb helps and singular pronoun it


hi daagh

I have a question about pronoun errors. Would appreciate if you could have a look:

I am modifying the sentence to ask my query. If the sentence were as follows: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain why the scientist has assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.
Here "it" logically ONLY refers back to the compound insect eye but it COULD (without logic) also refer to the singular "scientist". Now, would I eliminate this answer choice because "it" COULD have two antecedents (one logical, the other illogical) or keep it cus "it" actually has only one LOGICAL antecedent?
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New post 28 Mar 2020, 20:27
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Kristi

1. The scientist cannot be a true noun since the word 'the scientist' is not available per se.
2. Even if anyone choice has the singular ‘Scientist’, you know it is illogical, and hence is not in contention. You can ignore the illogical reference and be confirmed that the pronoun has only one eligible contender.
3. But the real problem lies in that there are two singular structures already in the sentence. 1. the intricate structure.( the subject of the sentence) 2. The compound eye. (an object of the preposition) . As per protocol, the subject has the first right of reference for the pronoun. But this is not 100 percent true. In the given case, a true comparison is between the compound eye and the vertebrate eye. None of the choices even indicate anything more about the way the vertebrate eye developed. Therefor logical meaning trumps the technical grammar.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Apr 2020, 03:09
USADream wrote:
The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.

A having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it
B having hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that they
C with its hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain scientists' assuming that they
D with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain scientists' assuming that it
E with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that it


This sentence addresses why scientists have decided that the vertebrate eye arid the insect eye evolved independently of each other. The insect eye is much more intricate, with hundreds of miniature eyes. The sentence needs to be clear as to what has hundreds of miniature eyes. The structure or the insect eye? Furthermore, the singular subject intricate structure requires the singular verb helps.

A. having hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain why scientists have assumed that it
having..modified subject of the preceding clause "The intricate structure" and meaning looks like The intricate
structure has miniature eyes(insect eye has miniature eyes).so this option is out


B. having hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that they
Option B is out for the same reason as given in Option A.

C. with its hundreds of miniature eyes that are called ommatidia, helps explain scientists' assuming that they
The intricate structure ...helps(correct). they(plural) is refer to back to The intricate structure(singular)..so
Incorrect


D. with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, help explain scientists' assuming that it
The intricate structure ...help(incorrect)

E. with its hundreds of miniature eyes called ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that it
The intricate structure ...helps(correct).It refers to The intricate structure...Correct.



Hello
so, from this, I can conclude that a prepositional phrase ( like that starting with "with") can refer to the object of a preposition, while a participial phrase has to refer to the subject of the prepositional phrase?
thanks
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of  [#permalink]

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New post 17 Apr 2020, 01:11
I can go to choice E but before "with" in choice E, comma exist. this is not good because "with..." modifies "eye" and dont need comma.

comma +phrase after a noun is hard point and is normally an adverbial. many new og question test this point. this can be old og question.
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Re: The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, having hundreds of   [#permalink] 17 Apr 2020, 01:11

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