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The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than

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The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than the discus; moreover, the discus is actually more likely to injure bystanders because, especially when wet, it can slip out of the thrower's hand and fly in a random trajectory.


(A) javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than the discus; moreover,

(B) javelin has a sharp point and is obviously more dangerous than the discus; however,

(C) javelin's sharp point is obviously more dangerous than the discus, even though

(D) javelin's sharp point makes it obviously more dangerous than the discus, even though

(E) javelin, with its sharp point, is more obviously dangerous than the discus; however,

Originally posted by Bull78 on 14 Aug 2012, 22:25.
Last edited by Bunuel on 30 Nov 2018, 02:25, edited 2 times in total.
Renamed the topic and edited the question.
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Aug 2012, 08:54
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Quote:
It seems like "more obviously dangerous" and "obviously more dangerous" would both give valid meanings.


However,both have vast difference in their meaning.

b) javelin has a sharp point and is obviously more dangerous than the discus; however,

When we say Javelin is more obviously dangerous, then we are saying that it is very clear that javelin is more dangerous than discus; However that is not so; It is the discus that is more dangerous. So B is against the grain of using the transitional contrast adverb however.

e) Javelin, with its sharp point, is more obviously dangerous than the discus; however,

When we say that the javelin is more obviously dangerous than discus, we are surmising that Javelin is apparently more dangerous than discus; however, in reality discus is more dangerous. Now the contrast adverb however, fits in smugly.
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Sep 2013, 09:02
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Marcab wrote:
What about "obviously more dangerous" vs "more obviously dangerous"?
What is the difference in the meaning in these two?


Hi Marcab,

Both of the sentences convey different meaning
obviously more dangerous - This means that "It is CLEAR that X is more dangerous THAN Y"
more obviously dangerous - This means that "That X is more dangerous THAN Y and this fact is MORE obvious or overt"

As far the this questions is concerned "obviously more dangerous" is INCORRECT and "more obviously dangerous" is CORRECT.

To understand why MORE OBVIOUSLY is correct, look at the contrasting word "HOWEVER" and the meaning of the non-underlined portion

The javelin, with its sharp point, is obviously more dangerous than the discus; however,, the discus is actually more likely to injure bystanders because, especially when wet, it can slip out of the thrower's hand and fly in a random trajectory.
This sentence fails to highlight the intended contrast

The javelin, with its sharp point, is more obviously dangerous than the discus; however,, the discus is actually more likely to injure bystanders because, especially when wet, it can slip out of the thrower's hand and fly in a random trajectory.
This sentence highlight the intended contrast

I hope this will clear your doubts.
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Aug 2012, 05:12
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b) javelin has a sharp point and is dangerous ................,

e) javelin, with its sharp point, is dangerous ...................

Analogy :

B : SKM has a sharp tongue and SKM is rude.................. Guess 2 separate ideas joined together = doesn't connect well or implies the role of sharp tongue ( My understanding )

E : SKM, with a sharp tongue, is rude = this implies sharp tongue plays a role in SKM being rude

Thus my take E
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Aug 2012, 23:35
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thevenus wrote:
I filtered down the ACs and got stuck between B and E ; however, i chose B eventually.
Experts tell me why not to choose B even-though, E is equally looking good and the right answer.

Is that because of änd"in B. (not parallel )?


This one is tricky. You're right to get stuck between B and E, but the problem is the subtle change in meaning in B.

"Is obviously more dangerous" has a different meaning from "is more obviously dangerous" and thus distorts the original sentence's intention. The first means that in fact it is more dangerous, but that's actually not true since the discus apparently is. So while the javelin but appear more obviously dangerous, the discus is apparently (NOW it's obviously) more dangerous.
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2012, 13:21
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bgpower wrote:
I think skmskm synthesized it quite well - it's all about that we have a dependent clause connected with AND in B, which shouldn't be the case here. Don't ask me why I prefered B over E.

One general question: Do we always assume in 700+ SC questions that the given answer choice A (no matter if correct or not) provides the genuine meaning, which the author wanted to convey?

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Hi there,

This is the sentence with Choice B:

The javelin has a sharp point and is obviously more dangerous than the discus; however, the discus is actually more likely to injure bystanders because, especially when wet, it can slip out of the thrower's hand and fly in a random trajectory.

This choice is not correct because it takes the reason that makes the javelin “more obviously dangerous”. Per this choice, the javelin has two traits:
1. It has a sharp point.
2. It is more dangerous than the discus.

This choice fails to say that the javelin becomes obviously dangerous because it has a sharp point. Choice E corrects this error. It clearly says that the javelin is more dangerous because of its sharp point.

Now let’s see the use of “more obviously dangerous” and “obviously more dangerous”. Notice the placement of the word “more”. In the original sentence, it modifies “obviously” and not “dangerous”. Javelin is obviously dangerous. But what makes it “more” obviously dangerous is its sharp point.

This brings us to the answer of the question you asked. The original sentence always sets the context in which the sentence has been written. It guides us toward the logical intended meaning of the sentence. At e-gmat, we add a lot of importance to spending time with the original sentence to understand the logical meaning. This goes for each and every sentence, easy or difficult.

Hope this helps. :)
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Sep 2013, 06:53
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Marcab wrote:
The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than the discus; moreover, the discus is actually more likely to injure bystanders because, especially when wet, it can slip out of the thrower's hand and fly in a random trajectory.
javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than the discus; moreover,
javelin has a sharp point and is obviously more dangerous than the discus; however,
javelin's sharp point is obviously more dangerous than the discus, even though
javelin's sharp point makes it obviously more dangerous than the discus, even though
javelin, with its sharp point, is more obviously dangerous than the discus; however,


there are two independent clauses before and after the semicolon.According to the meaning of the sentence we need a contrast with both these ICs.therefore the use of MOREOVER is wrong .THATS WHY A is wrong.

in C and D we are comparing sharp point with DISCUSS ==>this is wrong comparison.

option B is wrong because IS => linking verb AND SHOULD NEVER BE FOLLOWED BY ADVERBS.
In option B IS is followed by OBVIOUSLY this is wrong.

HENCE E
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Oct 2012, 03:48
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Bull78 wrote:
The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than the discus; moreover, the discus is actually more likely to injure bystanders because, especially when wet, it can slip out of the thrower's hand and fly in a random trajectory.


a) javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than the discus; moreover,
b) javelin has a sharp point and is obviously more dangerous than the discus; however,
c) javelin's sharp point is obviously more dangerous than the discus, even though
d) javelin's sharp point makes it obviously more dangerous than the discus, even though
e) javelin, with its sharp point, is more obviously dangerous than the discus; however,


Was very easy to get it down to B and E.
Later, I chose E because E is more close to what this sentence wants to say.
"Its because of the sharp point, javelin looks obviously more dangerous".
B - when we use 'and' conjunction, it doesn't show any relationship b/w javelin's sharp point and its being dangerous.
So B gets eliminated. Not sure if everyone agrees with my reasoning, but this is how I got E.
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Aug 2012, 08:16
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I got down to B and E and ended up going with B :(

How do we decipher the author's intended meaning?

It seems like "more obviously dangerous" and "obviously more dangerous" would both give valid meanings.

Do we need to stick with the meaning of the original sentence?
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Aug 2012, 23:15
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I filtered down the ACs and got stuck between B and E ; however, i chose B eventually.
Experts tell me why not to choose B even-though, E is equally looking good and the right answer.

Is that because of änd"in B. (not parallel )?
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Sep 2012, 17:09
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B – obviously more dangerous is what we say when we speak
E – looks good from gmat perspective but ‘more obviously dangerous’ doesn’t seem to be right. Can one of the experts pls explain..
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Oct 2012, 05:52
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Bull78 wrote:
The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than the discus; moreover, the discus is actually more likely to injure bystanders because, especially when wet, it can slip out of the thrower's hand and fly in a random trajectory.


a) javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than the discus; moreover,
b) javelin has a sharp point and is obviously more dangerous than the discus; however,
c) javelin's sharp point is obviously more dangerous than the discus, even though
d) javelin's sharp point makes it obviously more dangerous than the discus, even though
e) javelin, with its sharp point, is more obviously dangerous than the discus; however,


Wonder no one has chosen D here?.
My take:
a) javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than the discus; moreover,

which modified point instead of javelin.
b) javelin has a sharp point and is obviously more dangerous than the discus; however,

; is used to join independent clauses. however shows dependency from first clause.
c) javelin's sharp point is obviously more dangerous than the discus, even though

Incorrect comparison
d) javelin's sharp point makes it obviously more dangerous than the discus, even though

though bit wordy, doesnt have any grammatical error.
e) javelin, with its sharp point, is more obviously dangerous than the discus; however

incorrect use of ;. Dependent clauses are added. More obviously dangerous doesnt sound right , although I'm honestly not sure about this.

Correct Ans should be D.
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Dec 2012, 11:24
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Hi @archit143,

D) javelin's sharp point makes it obviously more dangerous than the discus, even though: Incorrect.

Notice the use of “it” in this choice. This pronoun stands for “sharp point”. It cannot refer to “javelin’s” because this entity is a modifier, an adjective. So “it” stands for “sharp point”. Now per this choice, “sharp point” has been compared to “discus”. These two entities are not comparable. This illogical comparison makes this choice incorrect.

Also the placement of “more” is not correct in this choice. Read my previous post on the usage of “more” in this sentence.

“however” also starts fresh sentences. We form complete sentences with “however”. This is the reason why use of semicolon is not incorrect in some of the answer choices, including the correct one.

Hope this helps. :)
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Sep 2013, 07:11
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A, C: wrong comparison

In B, "javelin has a sharp point and is obviously more dangerous than the discus; however," --> this option uses "and" --> there is no correlation between "sharp point" and "dangerous" --> distorts the meaning because the sharp point makes javelin more dangerous than discus
In D, "javelin's sharp point makes it obviously more dangerous than the discus, even though" --> this option tries to compare javelin with discus, but "it" can't refer to "javelin" in "javelin's sharp point" --> wrong

-> E
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Sep 2013, 07:18
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What about "obviously more dangerous" vs "more obviously dangerous"?
What is the difference in the meaning in these two?
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Sep 2013, 09:44
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Marcab wrote:
No, didn't get you.
What is the intended contrast?


To understand why MORE OBVIOUSLY is correct, look at the contrasting word "HOWEVER" and the meaning of the non-underlined portion

The javelin, with its sharp point, is obviously more dangerous than the discus; however,, the discus is actually more likely to injure bystanders because, especially when wet, it can slip out of the thrower's hand and fly in a random trajectory.
The javelin, with its sharp point, is obviously more dangerous than the discus- This means that "It is CLEAR that Javelin is more dangerous THAN Discus "
the discus is actually more likely to injure bystanders because, especially when wet, it can slip out of the thrower's hand and fly in a random trajectory - This means that "BUT, Discus is ACTUALLY more dangerous"


The javelin, with its sharp point, is more obviously dangerous than the discus; however,, the discus is actually more likely to injure bystanders because, especially when wet, it can slip out of the thrower's hand and fly in a random trajectory.
The javelin, with its sharp point, is more obviously dangerous than the discus - This means that "Javelin is more dangerous Discus Y and this fact is MORE obvious or overt"
the discus is actually more likely to injure bystanders because, especially when wet, it can slip out of the thrower's hand and fly in a random trajectory - This means that "BUT, Discus is ACTUALLY more dangerous"




It is CLEAR that Javelin is more dangerous THAN Discus, BUT, Discus is ACTUALLY more dangerous
Javelin is more dangerous Discus Y and this fact is MORE obvious or overt, BUT, Discus is ACTUALLY more dangerous


Now try to answer which of the above mentioned sentences show CONTRAST more?
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Oct 2014, 08:08
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The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than the discus; moreover, the discus is actually more likely to injure bystanders because, especially when wet, it can slip out of the thrower's hand and fly in a random trajectory.


a) javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than the discus; moreover, - which refers to point not to javelin
b) javelin has a sharp point and is obviously more dangerous than the discus; however, - meaning error- Javelin is dangerous because of sharp point
c) javelin's sharp point is obviously more dangerous than the discus, even though - point is compared to discuss
d) javelin's sharp point makes it obviously more dangerous than the discus, even though - no referent for it
e) javelin, with its sharp point, is more obviously dangerous than the discus; however,- correct comparison
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jan 2016, 05:16
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The use of 'semicolon and however' is acceptable as far English grammar is concerned; the following links may help to explain that.

http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/ ... hrases.htm

https://www.sonoma.edu/users/f/farahman ... owever.pdf

The following is the response from MGMAT regarding the use of however with a semicolon

https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... t2197.html

So, I feel that E cannot be faulted on that count.
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Aug 2016, 17:03
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Only in E, there is a comparison between Javelin and discus, other options compare Javelin's sharp point and discus, which is not correct.
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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2012, 12:04
I think skmskm synthesized it quite well - it's all about that we have a dependent clause connected with AND in B, which shouldn't be the case here. Don't ask me why I prefered B over E.

One general question: Do we always assume in 700+ SC questions that the given answer choice A (no matter if correct or not) provides the genuine meaning, which the author wanted to convey?

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Re: The javelin has a sharp point, which is more obviously dangerous than   [#permalink] 05 Dec 2012, 12:04

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