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# The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call

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Re: The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call  [#permalink]

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29 Dec 2017, 10:14
Hi mikemcgarry,

Isn't option C refuting the premise: Fossils are found without a hump.

Argument is pretty straightforward that paintings are not incorrect even though we have fossils without hump.

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Re: The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call  [#permalink]

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29 Dec 2017, 18:20
gmatexam439 wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry,

Isn't option C refuting the premise: Fossils are found without a hump.

Argument is pretty straightforward that paintings are not incorrect even though we have fossils without hump.

Dear gmatexam439,

I'm happy to respond

My friend, many students labor under the misconception that ALL outside information is irrelevant to the GMAT CR. It's true that one doesn't need specific knowledge of the topic--in this instance, the giant deer--but one definitely has to have a sense of how the real world works. Think about it. Why does the GMAT ask Critical Reasoning questions? The GMAT has this question precisely because managers in the real world need to evaluate arguments of all kinds every day. In order to be successful on the GMAT CR, you have to have a keen sense of the business world and you need to have a grasp of the basic scientific facts that everyone learns in school. See:
GMAT Critical Reasoning and Outside Knowledge

Choice (C) does NOT refute the premise. Fossils are made of bone. Bone, the only rock-like part of the body, is the only part that endures like rock for centuries, even millennia. By contrast, the humps that these giant deer had were "fatty tissue, which doos not fossilize." Much in the same way, if you looked, say, at the skeleton of a camel, you wouldn't see the spine curve up into the humps. The humps of a camel are a real anatomical feature that we can see, but this feature is not reflected in the skeleton.

The live animal, whether the ancient giant deer or the modern camel, has the fatty humps we can see: they are part of the living animal. Ancient cave painters, seeing the living giant deer, would have seen its hump. When the animal dies and rots away, so only the rock-like bones of the fossil are left, no hump would be visible on either animal. Thus, the animal really has a hump and the fossil doesn't.

Does all this make sense?
Mike
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Re: The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call  [#permalink]

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30 Dec 2017, 05:21
mikemcgarry wrote:
gmatexam439 wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry,

Isn't option C refuting the premise: Fossils are found without a hump.

Argument is pretty straightforward that paintings are not incorrect even though we have fossils without hump.

Dear gmatexam439,

I'm happy to respond

My friend, many students labor under the misconception that ALL outside information is irrelevant to the GMAT CR. It's true that one doesn't need specific knowledge of the topic--in this instance, the giant deer--but one definitely has to have a sense of how the real world works. Think about it. Why does the GMAT ask Critical Reasoning questions? The GMAT has this question precisely because managers in the real world need to evaluate arguments of all kinds every day. In order to be successful on the GMAT CR, you have to have a keen sense of the business world and you need to have a grasp of the basic scientific facts that everyone learns in school. See:
GMAT Critical Reasoning and Outside Knowledge

Choice (C) does NOT refute the premise. Fossils are made of bone. Bone, the only rock-like part of the body, is the only part that endures like rock for centuries, even millennia. By contrast, the humps that these giant deer had were "fatty tissue, which doos not fossilize." Much in the same way, if you looked, say, at the skeleton of a camel, you wouldn't see the spine curve up into the humps. The humps of a camel are a real anatomical feature that we can see, but this feature is not reflected in the skeleton.

The live animal, whether the ancient giant deer or the modern camel, has the fatty humps we can see: they are part of the living animal. Ancient cave painters, seeing the living giant deer, would have seen its hump. When the animal dies and rots away, so only the rock-like bones of the fossil are left, no hump would be visible on either animal. Thus, the animal really has a hump and the fossil doesn't.

Does all this make sense?
Mike

Thank you mikemcgarry for the quick response.

But isn't the language used in the option bit extreme -- "animal humps are composed of fatty tissue, which does not fossilize". Maybe a better structure would have been such as "animal humps are composed of fatty tissue, which does not fossilize EASILY".

This creates a lot of difference. I understand that we need to use outside information smartly, but we need to be wary of "exaggerated options" also.

Regards
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Re: The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call  [#permalink]

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02 Jan 2018, 10:13
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gmatexam439 wrote:
Thank you mikemcgarry for the quick response.

But isn't the language used in the option bit extreme -- "animal humps are composed of fatty tissue, which does not fossilize". Maybe a better structure would have been such as "animal humps are composed of fatty tissue, which does not fossilize EASILY".

This creates a lot of difference. I understand that we need to use outside information smartly, but we need to be wary of "exaggerated options" also.

Regards

Dear gmatexam439,

I'm happy to respond.

My friend, context is everything! Don't get caught in the trap of applying a one-size-fits-all rule.

Think about it. In human affairs--the business world, the political realm, social movements, etc.--there really is no true "always" or "never" statement. The human realm is one of exceptions. This is precisely why extreme statements on these issues are suspect. There are general trends, of course--most scientists would say that evolution is scientifically accepted, most people flying for business fly first class, most environmentalists are politically liberal, etc. All of those and many other similar statements are perfectly true with "most" but would be false with "all."

By contrast, the natural sciences and mathematics are realms were things frequently are always or never true.
No multiple of 12 is a prime number.
A positive electrical charge is always attracted to a negative charge.
When an object is accelerating, this acceleration always indicates the presence of an unbalanced force.
Soft animal tissue (i.e. not bone, teeth, shell, etc.) never fossilizes.

Those may be "extreme" sounding statements, but they are perfectly true.

Does this make sense?
Mike
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Re: The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call  [#permalink]

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02 Jan 2018, 10:18
mikemcgarry wrote:
gmatexam439 wrote:
Thank you mikemcgarry for the quick response.

But isn't the language used in the option bit extreme -- "animal humps are composed of fatty tissue, which does not fossilize". Maybe a better structure would have been such as "animal humps are composed of fatty tissue, which does not fossilize EASILY".

This creates a lot of difference. I understand that we need to use outside information smartly, but we need to be wary of "exaggerated options" also.

Regards

Dear gmatexam439,

I'm happy to respond.

My friend, context is everything! Don't get caught in the trap of applying a one-size-fits-all rule.

Think about it. In human affairs--the business world, the political realm, social movements, etc.--there really is no true "always" or "never" statement. The human realm is one of exceptions. This is precisely why extreme statements on these issues are suspect. There are general trends, of course--most scientists would say that evolution is scientifically accepted, most people flying for business fly first class, most environmentalists are politically liberal, etc. All of those and many other similar statements are perfectly true with "most" but would be false with "all."

By contrast, the natural sciences and mathematics are realms were things frequently are always or never true.
No multiple of 12 is a prime number.
A positive electrical charge is always attracted to a negative charge.
When an object is accelerating, this acceleration always indicates the presence of an unbalanced force.
Soft animal tissue (i.e. not bone, teeth, shell, etc.) never fossilizes.

Those may be "extreme" sounding statements, but they are perfectly true.

Does this make sense?
Mike

Hello mikemcgarry,

This makes a lot of sense Mike. Thank you for your patience

Regards
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Re: The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call  [#permalink]

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13 Mar 2018, 21:45
imaru wrote:
Official Guide for GMAT Verbal Review, 2nd Edition
Practice Question
Question No.: 13
Page: 120
Difficulty:

Which of following most logically completes the argument?

The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer called the giant dear lived in Ireland about 16,000 years ago. Prehistoric cave paintings in France depict this animal as having a large hump on its back. Fossils of this animal, however, do not show any hump. Nevertheless, there is no reason to conclude that the cave paintings are therefore inaccurate in this regard, since ______.

A. some prehistoric cave paintings in France also depict other animals as having a hump
B. fossils of the giant deer are much more common in Ireland than in France
C. animal humps are composed of fatty tissue, which does not fossilize
D. the cave paintings of the giant deer were painted well before 16,000 years ago
E. only one currently existing species of deer has any anatomical feature that even remotely resembles a hump

The only phrase that tricked me is "fatty tissue, which does not fossilize" and I went for D with which also I was not satisfied. But as we need to pick from the given choices I picked D. C seems to me countering the premise. If humps do not fossilize, then how they found fossil without hump?
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Re: The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call  [#permalink]

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24 May 2018, 01:46
karlfurt wrote:
why not D?
If the paintings were made well before 16000 years ago, it could be at a time when the deer had a hump which could have disappeared progressively.

D doesn't solve the issue why the fossil doesn't have the hump though it is in the painting, therefore, it is incorrect.
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Re: The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call  [#permalink]

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07 Mar 2020, 06:22
I don't understand why (C) is the correct answer here. after reading the prompt, I was looking for something that is exactly the opposite of what (C) says.
What am I missing here?
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Re: The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call  [#permalink]

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25 Mar 2020, 19:31
1
RashedVai wrote:
I don't understand why (C) is the correct answer here. after reading the prompt, I was looking for something that is exactly the opposite of what (C) says.
What am I missing here?

Did you read the exchange between mikemcgarry and gmatexam439 discussing choice (C)?

If that (or the other discussion posted so far) did not help, could you please clarify why you were looking for the opposite of what (C) says? That could help us address your specific doubt.
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The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call  [#permalink]

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Updated on: 11 Jul 2020, 09:41
ChiranjeevSingh, egmat

I am confused between C and D.
D is talking about giant deer as mentioned in the argument. Now if we suppose that we are living in 2020 and the deer existed till 2010. The paintings were carved in 2009. So, they must have seen the deer and then painted it. So, the painting must be accurate right?
I tried negating both the options and D seems to me a better choice than C.
If the painting was carved in 2011, then the animal is already extinct. How can we say for sure that the painting is not inaccurate.

luckyatc

Originally posted by uchihaitachi on 12 Jun 2020, 22:01.
Last edited by uchihaitachi on 11 Jul 2020, 09:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call  [#permalink]

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20 Jun 2020, 08:39
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uchihaitachi wrote:
ChiranjeevSingh, egmat

I am confused between C and D.
D is talking about giant deer as mentioned in the argument. Now if we suppose that we are living in 2020 and the deer existed till 2010. The paintings were carved in 2009. So, they must have seen the deer and then painted it. So, the painting must be accurate right?
I tried negating both the options and D seems to me a better choice than C.
If the painting was carved in 2011, then the animal is already extinct. How can we say for sure that the painting is not inaccurate.

Hi

In completing the argument, we must choose that answer option which best fits all the facts (or, premises) given in the stimulus, not just a few or one. Let us consider option (D).

(D) the cave paintings of the giant deer were painted well before 16,000 years ago.

It is true that the paintings were probably made after looking at the animal. However, how does this explain the fact that the fossilized remains of the deer found do not show any such hump as is shown in the paintings? Think of this as a kind of paradox resolution question. Therefore, option (D) does not adequately complete the argument being made. Now let us consider option (C).

(C) animal humps are composed of fatty tissue, which does not fossilize.

Now, this clearly explains how the paintings have humps while the fossils do not. This, therefore, brings together all the premises presented in the argument and is hence a much better answer than option (D).

Hope this helps.
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Re: The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call  [#permalink]

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07 Jul 2020, 05:21
karlfurt wrote:
why not D?
If the paintings were made well before 16000 years ago, it could be at a time when the deers had a hump which could have disapeared progressively.

In CR Questions we must avoid answers that require us taking an additional logical leap which is not clearly stated in the question.

Your assumption, 'it could be at a time when the deers had a hump which could have disappeared progressively' is not given to us in the question at all. Thus you will be introducing additional information into the question prompt, which you shouldn't do.

The answer to CR questions should be clear and be able to fit into the question prompt without making any additional logical leap.
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Re: The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call  [#permalink]

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16 Jul 2020, 05:56
Paintings say hump but fossils say no hump. But there’s no reason to say paintings are wrong [and therefore, deer actually did have hump] because what if there’s a difference between what was drawn and what was fossilized? What if these animals weren’t the same animal?

(A) some prehistoric cave paintings in France also depict other animals as having a hump
This doesn’t shed light on the animal we’re talking about or draw a connection. This can’t be an assumption that can be drawn.

(B) fossils of the giant deer are much more common in Ireland than in France
This doesn’t explain the discrepancy. Doesn’t matter where they’re more prevalent. We want to know why there’s a gap in knowledge between paintings and fossils.

(C) animal humps are composed of fatty tissue, which does not fossilize
Okay. So the humps are made of some stuff that doesn’t fossilize? They won’t show up in fossils? But I guess this could mean, when the paintings were made, the painters saw that the humps were there and drew it. But when these animals died, everything else remained but the humps. This makes sense. Let’s see if there’s anything else more convincing.

(D) the cave paintings of the giant deer were painted well before 16,000 years ago
Regardless of when it was painted, why is there a difference? “Prehistoric cave paintings” could almost be argued to say that this happened well before the 16k period as well. But regardless, C is better.

(E) only one currently existing species of deer has any anatomical feature that even remotely resembles a hump
We don’t care about what’s current out there. We want to know why there was a difference between the paintings and the fossils. Out of scope.
Re: The last members of a now-extinct species of a European wild deer call   [#permalink] 16 Jul 2020, 05:56

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