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The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge

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The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge to impose an injunction against the hardware manufacturer, arguing that they should take immediate action in order to prevent further economic damages against their client.

a) they should take immediate action in order to prevent further economic damages against their client
b) the judge act immediately in order to prevent the client from suffering further damages of an economic nature
c) they should act immediately to prevent further economic damages being suffered by the client
d) the judge act immediately in order to prevent them from suffering economic damages further
e) immediate action should be taken to prevent their client from suffering further economic damages

What is wrong with B?
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA
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Re: Lawyers Argument [#permalink]

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As vivesomnium noted above, "they" is a problem in both A, C, and D-- the only plural antecedent in the sentence is "lawyers." Clearly ,the intended meaning of the sentence is *not* that lawyers should act or be saved from economic damages. Or you could say that there is potential to group the lawyers and judge together into a plural unit, rendering the pronoun ambiguous. In either case, knock those choices out.

B (and D) contain another issue, though. See that front-end split among the answer choices? "They should" and "the judge act" both appear twice.

That word, "should," might have triggered a red-flag in your head-- we're in the realm of SUBJUNCTIVES!

Remember there are certain words (we call them "bossy verbs") that require the subjunctive mood. Verbs that indicate desire, suggestions, orders, etc. fall into that "bossy verb" category and require the command subjunctive. To construct the command subjunctive, take the infinitive form and cross off the "to."

He demanded that she [strike]to[/strike] STOP the car.
She required that he [strike]to[/strike] START the class on time.
Carl should [strike]to[/strike] BE the best man at your wedding.

B and D incorrectly attempt to apply the command subjunctive! The verb (or verbal, here, since "arguing" has a modifier function not a working-verb function) is NOT a "bossy" verb. Arguing isn't pleasant, but it's a back-and-forth process, not a one-way request or order.

That only leaves E, which CORRECTLY uses the subjunctive "should BE" and unambiguously uses the pronoun "their" to refer back to "lawyers."

Hope this helps.
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Re: Lawyers Argument [#permalink]

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a. who is they? lawyers? Federal judges? Manufacturer? or Federal judges and manufacturer togther? use of 'they' is creating ambiguity here
b. judge is made the agent of action, moreover 'from suffering further damages of an economic nature ' is very wordy - 'damages of an econmic nature' means 'economic damages'- use of such convoluted language makes this option incorrect.
c. similar to a, wrong use of they. also further damages being suffered is wrong. If the damages are further (in future, more than current) than how can they be 'being suffered' right now. being is continuous form, and is used wrongly here.
d. prevent whom? ambiguous use of them.
e. use of their here has a clear antecedent- lawyers. correct option.
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Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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kannn wrote:
The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge to impose an injunction against the hardware manufacturer, arguing that they should take immediate action in order to prevent further economic damages against their client.

a) they should take immediate action in order to prevent further economic damages against their client
b) the judge act immediately in order to prevent the client from suffering further damages of an economic nature
c) they should act immediately to prevent further economic damages being suffered by the client
d) the judge act immediately in order to prevent them from suffering economic damages further
e) immediate action should be taken to prevent their client from suffering further economic damages

What is wrong with B?


B changes the original meaning. It is suggesting that their could be other kind of damages as well. E is is the crystal clear answer.
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Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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AR15J wrote:
I was confused between B and E, but I finally selected B, thinking that E looses the information by making an active voice to passive voice. Please help how to avoid this trap(where more focus should be on actual meaning and where more focus should be on wordiness)


Sorry, your query is not clear - the preference for E over B is not because of wordiness or original meaning.

B is wrong not because of wordiness or meaning, but because of faulty use of subjunctive. The verb "argue" is not a bossy verb, and hence the use of subjunctive "judge act immediately " is wrong - it is a grammatical error.

(If there is only one grammatically correct option, you have to select the same, irrespective of whether it maintains the meaning of the original sentence. Nowhere in the official guide is it stated that the correct option should have the same meaning as the original sentence. In case there are more than one gramatically correct options, then select the one that adheres to the meaning of the original sentence.)
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Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jan 2017, 03:32
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AR15J wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
AR15J wrote:
I was confused between B and E, but I finally selected B, thinking that E looses the information by making an active voice to passive voice. Please help how to avoid this trap(where more focus should be on actual meaning and where more focus should be on wordiness)


Sorry, your query is not clear - the preference for E over B is not because of wordiness or original meaning.

B is wrong not because of wordiness or meaning, but because of faulty use of subjunctive. The verb "argue" is not a bossy verb, and hence the use of subjunctive "judge act immediately " is wrong - it is a grammatical error.

(If there is only one grammatically correct option, you have to select the same, irrespective of whether it maintains the meaning of the original sentence. Nowhere in the official guide is it stated that the correct option should have the same meaning as the original sentence. In case there are more than one gramatically correct options, then select the one that adheres to the meaning of the original sentence.)



But your answer cleared my query for rejecting the wrong answer. :-D

1. I read one post in the discussion which also describes argue as bossy verb. However, I don't know what are the bossy verbs. I tried to search, but I did not understand anything except the sentence that imperative verbs are bossy verbs.

2. I know the usage of subjunctive verbs-- demand, dictate, insist, mandate, request, recommend, suggest stipulate(some are optional-- ask, beg, urge, prefer, desire, intend, order require).

But I have seen some posts on gmatclab, the post that sometimes subjunctive verbs does not act as subjunctive verbs.For instance--
A study conducted by researchers suggests that cat walk more in winter than in summer to keep its body warm. -- wrong

A study conducted by researchers suggests that cat walks more in winter than in summer to keep its body warm-- Correct

Because the study is not giving any suggestion so it should not be treated as subjunctive verb. Correct me if I am wrong.

I suggest him that he eat less to stay fit-- correct

2. I have read in one of your posts that two modifiers can not refer to the same noun if they are not connected by conjunction

The dog lying behind my house and black in color is sick. --correct

However,

A study conducted by researchers on cat suggests that.............

Modifier--on cat
and
conducted by researchers
modifies a study

But writing the below statement seems awkward to me, please help. I always struggle when same noun is modified by more than one modifier


1. The term "bossy" is used in Manhattan SC guide to explain which kind of verbs are suitable for use of command subjunctive.

2. Very well explained. ("suggest" may or may not be bossy).

3. This is an exception of modifier touch rule. Manhattan SC guide lists the exceptions. The first one is as follows:
A mission critical modifier (again seems to be a Manhattan-coined term) may come in between a modifer and the noun it refers to. The latter modifer then modifes the entire noun+ first modifer. So in this case the modifier "on cat" modifies "A study conducted by researchers ", not just " A study". ("conducted by researchers" as usual modifies the noun it touches, i.e. "A study").
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Re: Lawyers Argument [#permalink]

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New post 25 Apr 2011, 23:49
A very good point.. certainly helpful :)
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Re: Lawyers Argument [#permalink]

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New post 09 May 2011, 04:35
parker wrote:
As vivesomnium noted above, "they" is a problem in both A, C, and D-- the only plural antecedent in the sentence is "lawyers." Clearly ,the intended meaning of the sentence is *not* that lawyers should act or be saved from economic damages. Or you could say that there is potential to group the lawyers and judge together into a plural unit, rendering the pronoun ambiguous. In either case, knock those choices out.

B (and D) contain another issue, though. See that front-end split among the answer choices? "They should" and "the judge act" both appear twice.

That word, "should," might have triggered a red-flag in your head-- we're in the realm of SUBJUNCTIVES!

Remember there are certain words (we call them "bossy verbs") that require the subjunctive mood. Verbs that indicate desire, suggestions, orders, etc. fall into that "bossy verb" category and require the command subjunctive. To construct the command subjunctive, take the infinitive form and cross off the "to."

He demanded that she [strike]to[/strike] STOP the car.
She required that he [strike]to[/strike] START the class on time.
Carl should [strike]to[/strike] BE the best man at your wedding.

B and D incorrectly attempt to apply the command subjunctive! The verb (or verbal, here, since "arguing" has a modifier function not a working-verb function) is NOT a "bossy" verb. Arguing isn't pleasant, but it's a back-and-forth process, not a one-way request or order.

That only leaves E, which CORRECTLY uses the subjunctive "should BE" and unambiguously uses the pronoun "their" to refer back to "lawyers."

Hope this helps.


this has helped...

i made 3-4 mistake earlier because of word "argue" and that construction.

i wll go e
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The lawyers for the patent holder [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jun 2013, 07:42
The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge to impose an injunction against the hardware manufacturer, arguing that they should take immediate action in order to prevent further economic damages against their client.

A)they should take immediate action in order to prevent further economic damages against their client
B)the judge act immediately in order to prevent the client from suffering further damages of an economic nature
C)they should act immediately to prevent further economic damages being suffered by the client
D)the judge act immediately in order to prevent them from suffering economic damages further
E)immediate action should be taken to prevent their client from suffering further economic damages

Last edited by Zarrolou on 28 Jun 2013, 07:46, edited 2 times in total.
Merging similar topics.
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Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jul 2013, 00:07
How to know that " their" in option E is not referring to Hardware manufacture? Is there some rule? :?
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Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jul 2013, 00:31
HI Mountain,

It's not so much about a rule. But rather looking at a sentence logically and seeing what it could mean.

In this instance if you read E there is nothing to suggest (logically) that 'their' doesn't refer to lawyers.

In a correct sentence, you can guarantee no ambiguity.

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Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jul 2013, 01:12
plumber250 wrote:
HI Mountain,

It's not so much about a rule. But rather looking at a sentence logically and seeing what it could mean.

In this instance if you read E there is nothing to suggest (logically) that 'their' doesn't refer to lawyers.

In a correct sentence, you can guarantee no ambiguity.

James



This really confuses me big time..... :( ...

In A and C- " they" is ambiguous and do not have clear antecedent but when it comes to " their" it need to be logically thought...

Anyways, thanks James... probably... more practice is required... :(
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Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jul 2013, 01:27
Mountain14 wrote:


This really confuses me big time..... :( ...

In A and C- " they" is ambiguous and do not have clear antecedent but when it comes to " their" it need to be logically thought...

Anyways, thanks James... probably... more practice is required... :(


hi,

the problem is in meaning..it is not like they is ambiguous....
meaning of sentence is:

The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge to impose an injunction against the hardware manufacturer, arguing that they should take immediate action in order to prevent further economic damages against their client.

THE LAWYERS(plural)===>THESE PEOPLE ARE PRESEEING FEDERAL JUDGE(SINGULAR) to impose ....against HARDWARE MANUFACTURER(SINGULAR)...

LAWYER IS ARGUING that THEY should take action......==>according to meaning who are supposed to take action....obviously FEDERAL JUDGE...WHICH IS SINGULAR....but here THEY is written to represent federal judge....thats why option A is wrong.

in option C:
c) they should act immediately to prevent further economic damages being suffered by the client ===>..IN THIS again THEY Should represent federal judge...same error as A....SINGULAR PLURAL mismatch

IN OPTION E

e) immediate action should be taken to prevent their client from suffering further economic damages===>in this case===>their clients===>whose clients are suffering ....IT IS THE LAWYERS client....and their is no other client....SINCE IT IS LAWYERS (PLURAL) CLIENT....hence THEIR (PLURAL PRONOUN)==>THIS IS CLEARLY REFERING TO LAWYERS..

hope its clear
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Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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Hello from the GMAT Club VerbalBot!

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Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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New post 26 Sep 2014, 00:41
parker wrote:
As vivesomnium noted above, "they" is a problem in both A, C, and D-- the only plural antecedent in the sentence is "lawyers." Clearly ,the intended meaning of the sentence is *not* that lawyers should act or be saved from economic damages. Or you could say that there is potential to group the lawyers and judge together into a plural unit, rendering the pronoun ambiguous. In either case, knock those choices out.

B (and D) contain another issue, though. See that front-end split among the answer choices? "They should" and "the judge act" both appear twice.

That word, "should," might have triggered a red-flag in your head-- we're in the realm of SUBJUNCTIVES!

Remember there are certain words (we call them "bossy verbs") that require the subjunctive mood. Verbs that indicate desire, suggestions, orders, etc. fall into that "bossy verb" category and require the command subjunctive. To construct the command subjunctive, take the infinitive form and cross off the "to."

He demanded that she to STOP the car.
She required that he to START the class on time.
Carl should to BE the best man at your wedding.

B and D incorrectly attempt to apply the command subjunctive! The verb (or verbal, here, since "arguing" has a modifier function not a working-verb function) is NOT a "bossy" verb. Arguing isn't pleasant, but it's a back-and-forth process, not a one-way request or order.

That only leaves E, which CORRECTLY uses the subjunctive "should BE" and unambiguously uses the pronoun "their" to refer back to "lawyers."

Hope this helps.

Is there a list of moods that require the use of the subjunctive?
I thought that argue was one of them....
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Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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Hello from the GMAT Club VerbalBot!

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Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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New post 02 Mar 2016, 23:19
The Command subjunctive is used when the verb indicates a desire, intention, command, recommendation, request, resolution, or advice. It is also used along with such words as advisable, better, desirable, directive, essential, fitting, imperative, important, necessary, urge, urgent and vital etc
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Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jun 2016, 09:20
So I have just started my SC studying but why would the portion of the sentence after the comma not be considered a dangling modifier?
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Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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New post 25 Jun 2016, 10:56
"They" is ambiguous.

"Argue" should not be followed by a subjunctive.

Only E is correct.
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Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jan 2017, 00:36
I was confused between B and E, but I finally selected B, thinking that E looses the information by making an active voice to passive voice. Please help how to avoid this trap(where more focus should be on actual meaning and where more focus should be on wordiness)
Re: The lawyers for the patent holder pressed the federal judge   [#permalink] 26 Jan 2017, 00:36

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