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# The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may

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Director
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 571
Location: France
Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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25 Jul 2006, 15:36
karlfurt wrote:
I thought the correct idiom would be "as long as" and not "so long as".

Didn't know it exists. Seems I am alone to wonder about this point...

I know it is D, the messages have been posted for months now. The point was about "so long as".

I know the idiom as long as, but not so long as. Can someone give some explanation about this point.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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25 Jul 2006, 22:23
Clear winner D.

IMO D is the only option that gives a clear meaning of the sentence.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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06 Dec 2011, 11:29
Can someone please elaborate why E is grammatically wrong?
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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15 Jan 2012, 18:55
Is (d) not changing the meaning of the sentence. My understanding was "all students have to pay the money"?.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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14 Oct 2012, 22:29
4
"universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities"

it sounds like the universities are collecting both fees and objections together - collecting fees with objections, like collecting dolls with special dresses. But that doesn't make any sense, right?

So I scanned down to see what my other options are. "universities may collect student activity fees even..."
A) with objections
B/C) if they (have objections / object)
D) from students who object
E) though students have an objection

A just repeats the original - eliminate.

B and C use the pronoun "they" so I've got to scan back and see whether "students" (the logical antecedent) is in the sentence. It's not, so "they" has no antecedent (ie, noun to which "they" refers). Eliminate B and C.

"student" isn't in possessive form, so it's not possessive poison, but "student" is an adjective here. "Student activity fees" - the noun is "fees" and "student" is just describing the type of fee. So you still couldn't use even a singular pronoun to refer to the word "student" because "student" isn't a noun in the original sentence.

a pronoun has to work both structurally and logically. If you use a subject pronoun in a later clause, then you would structurally expect the noun antecedent to be the subject of an earlier clause. If the pronoun points to one noun structurally but logically it points to a different one, that's ambiguous - and therefore wrong.

So let's look at B: "universities may collect student activity fees even if they have objections to particular activities..." In this part, "they" is a subject pronoun, so the structural antecedent is "universities" - but logically that doesn't make sense. Logically, "they" should refer to students who object to the activities (and that noun is not even in the sentence!). So that's a mismatch and B is wrong.

E has multiple problems. This opening bit that we've been looking at changes the meaning: instead of saying "I can collect money from everyone, even from those students who object," it's saying "I can collect money even though (all) students object." The word "but" later in the sentence also changes the intent - the stuff after the comma is supposed to indicate the rule that the universities have to follow in order to collect money from everyone. The word "but" introduces a contrast, which isn't the right meaning. There are other problems with this one, but that's enough to eliminate!

That leaves us with D.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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22 Oct 2012, 04:26
D is the best choice. I went for it directly after just seeing "from" being used
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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07 Aug 2014, 09:51
Hi Puneet

I thank you for your wonderful explanation. I don't know how but i started to think why should "they" referring to universities be illogical ?

Universities are collecting money from students even though university is objecting to certain type of student activities(due to unknown reasons). Can you please help me why my explanation is illogical(as no one even mentioned it ). So I think B is also a contender for correct choice.

Hope for a reply.

PUNEETSCHDV wrote:
"universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities"

it sounds like the universities are collecting both fees and objections together - collecting fees with objections, like collecting dolls with special dresses. But that doesn't make any sense, right?

So I scanned down to see what my other options are. "universities may collect student activity fees even..."
A) with objections
B/C) if they (have objections / object)
D) from students who object
E) though students have an objection

A just repeats the original - eliminate.

B and C use the pronoun "they" so I've got to scan back and see whether "students" (the logical antecedent) is in the sentence. It's not, so "they" has no antecedent (ie, noun to which "they" refers). Eliminate B and C.

"student" isn't in possessive form, so it's not possessive poison, but "student" is an adjective here. "Student activity fees" - the noun is "fees" and "student" is just describing the type of fee. So you still couldn't use even a singular pronoun to refer to the word "student" because "student" isn't a noun in the original sentence.

a pronoun has to work both structurally and logically. If you use a subject pronoun in a later clause, then you would structurally expect the noun antecedent to be the subject of an earlier clause. If the pronoun points to one noun structurally but logically it points to a different one, that's ambiguous - and therefore wrong.

So let's look at B: "universities may collect student activity fees even if they have objections to particular activities..." In this part, "they" is a subject pronoun, so the structural antecedent is "universities" - but logically that doesn't make sense. Logically, "they" should refer to students who object to the activities (and that noun is not even in the sentence!). So that's a mismatch and B is wrong.

E has multiple problems. This opening bit that we've been looking at changes the meaning: instead of saying "I can collect money from everyone, even from those students who object," it's saying "I can collect money even though (all) students object." The word "but" later in the sentence also changes the intent - the stuff after the comma is supposed to indicate the rule that the universities have to follow in order to collect money from everyone. The word "but" introduces a contrast, which isn't the right meaning. There are other problems with this one, but that's enough to eliminate!

That leaves us with D.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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19 Aug 2014, 01:33
one of the most beautiful questions on ogs. This question give us the way gmat make sc question. this question is important because it is basic and hard.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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19 Aug 2014, 07:45
Isn't "groups given money" incorrect?? It sounded awkward to me.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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22 Oct 2015, 04:21
though I can go to D, I do not know the meaning role "with+noun" play for the main clause.

in the pattern,

with+noun+main clause

of course, I know that with+noun work as an adverb of main clause. but I do not know which meaning this adverb shows

for example when clause works as an adverb to show time of main clause. This is very clear.

what meaning relation with the main clause dose "with+noun" show

pls, help

Thank you
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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26 Apr 2016, 05:36
Got this one wrong ... Experts please explain why option E is wrong ? Please mention the source as well ...
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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28 Apr 2016, 06:15
kimmyg wrote:
The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be
(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are
(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be
(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are
(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be

Official Guide 12 Question

 Question: 42 Page: 42 Difficulty: 600

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Video Explanations:

I felt that we have huge transition in terms of meaning with respect to this question,
1-->universities may collect fee even with students objection\\
it means that if there are 100 students and 30 are objecting---money should be collected from all 100 irrespective of their revolt

2-->universities may collect fee even from students who object to particular activities\\
it means that 70 have already paid while 30 were not paying and so university may collect fee from these 30 aswell.

I am not objecting the OA as it is official but I was between A and E for these reasons. I choose E and not D

Experts please explain. Can we give over meaning for the sake of grammar??
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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29 Apr 2016, 11:25
RatneshS wrote:
kimmyg wrote:
The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be
(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are
(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be
(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are
(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be

Official Guide 12 Question

 Question: 42 Page: 42 Difficulty: 600

Find All Official Guide Questions

Video Explanations:

I felt that we have huge transition in terms of meaning with respect to this question,
1-->universities may collect fee even with students objection\\
it means that if there are 100 students and 30 are objecting---money should be collected from all 100 irrespective of their revolt

2-->universities may collect fee even from students who object to particular activities\\
it means that 70 have already paid while 30 were not paying and so university may collect fee from these 30 aswell.

I am not objecting the OA as it is official but I was between A and E for these reasons. I choose E and not D

Experts please explain. Can we give over meaning for the sake of grammar??

Since this is an official GMAT question, the answer to your question is of course yes - especially when the original sentence conveys a meaning different from that intended.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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27 Oct 2016, 07:32
kimmyg wrote:
The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be
(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are
(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be
(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are
(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be

Official Guide 12 Question

 Question: 42 Page: 42 Difficulty: 600

Find All Official Guide Questions

Video Explanations:

[Ping - egmat, @sayantanc2k]
Hi,

Although, only option D is grammatically & logically correct, doesn't it change the intended meaning of the original sentence?

Original sentence -- collect fees even if students' objections are there -- (collection regardless of objections)
Option D -- collect fees from those students who object-- (collect even from those who object)

Thanks.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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28 Oct 2016, 09:05
1
SpiritualAtheist wrote:
kimmyg wrote:
The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be
(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are
(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be
(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are
(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be

Official Guide 12 Question

 Question: 42 Page: 42 Difficulty: 600

Find All Official Guide Questions

Video Explanations:

[Ping - egmat, @sayantanc2k]
Hi,

Although, only option D is grammatically & logically correct, doesn't it change the intended meaning of the original sentence?

Original sentence -- collect fees even if students' objections are there -- (collection regardless of objections)
Option D -- collect fees from those students who object-- (collect even from those who object)

Thanks.

It has not been mentioned in any official guideline that the correct answer must retain the meaning of the original sentence. If there is only one grammatically correct choice, it must be selected even when it deviates in meaning from the original. However if there are two grammatically correct sentences, select the one that agrees with the intended meaning of the original sentence.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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29 Oct 2016, 13:09
sayantanc2k wrote:
SpiritualAtheist wrote:
kimmyg wrote:
The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be
(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are
(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be
(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are
(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be

Official Guide 12 Question

 Question: 42 Page: 42 Difficulty: 600

Find All Official Guide Questions

Video Explanations:

[Ping - egmat, @sayantanc2k]
Hi,

Although, only option D is grammatically & logically correct, doesn't it change the intended meaning of the original sentence?

Original sentence -- collect fees even if students' objections are there -- (collection regardless of objections)
Option D -- collect fees from those students who object-- (collect even from those who object)

Thanks.

It has not been mentioned in any official guideline that the correct answer must retain the meaning of the original sentence. If there is only one grammatically correct choice, it must be selected even when it deviates in meaning from the original. However if there are two grammatically correct sentences, select the one that agrees with the intended meaning of the original sentence.

Hi Sayantan , Can you please explain what is wrong with Option A.?
I dont find anything wrong in this choice.
Thanks
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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30 Oct 2016, 01:29
sayantanc2k
please tell me If anything wrong in my analysis of the meaning here
meaning
The Supreme Court has ruled that
public universities may collect fees ,
so long as(provided that) the groups will be chosen without regard to their (universities )views[/i].
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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30 Oct 2016, 15:07
rakaisraka wrote:

Hi Sayantan , Can you please explain what is wrong with Option A.?
I dont find anything wrong in this choice.
Thanks

3 errors in A:
1. The pronoun "they" does not have an antecedent.
2. "will be" is not correct - A future tense cannot occur within a statement in past (I said that I will go.. wrong; I said that I WOULD go... correct)
3. The fees are not with students' objections... awkward.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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30 Oct 2016, 15:17
1
mbaprep2016 wrote:
sayantanc2k
please tell me If anything wrong in my analysis of the meaning here
meaning
The Supreme Court has ruled that
public universities may collect fees ,
so long as(provided that) the groups will be chosen without regard to their (universities )views[/i].

Meaning is Ok. Just a grammatical error: "will be" should be "are".
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may [#permalink]

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03 Jan 2017, 20:38
Collect X from Y is the correct idiom. As such, the correct answer is D.
Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may   [#permalink] 03 Jan 2017, 20:38

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# The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may

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