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The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude

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The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude  [#permalink]

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The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.


(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be

(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are

(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be

(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are

(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be



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QOTD: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Jan 2018, 00:20
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2
Quote:
(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be

Whoa, there’s all sorts of weird crap in (A). For starters, “universities may collect student activity fees even with students’ objections to particular activities” literally seems to be saying that activity fees and objections are collected together, somehow. And that doesn’t make sense.

I’m also not thrilled with the pronouns. I’m OK with the “their” at the very end of the sentence, because that seems to refer to the most recent plural noun (“groups”), but I don't love the phrase “they give money to.” I guess “they” is trying to refer to “public universities”, but we have a whole bunch of other plural nouns in the way (“student activity fees”, “students’ objections”, “activities”).

Of course, pronoun ambiguity isn’t an absolute rule on the GMAT (as discussed in this video), but it’s really not awesome when the pronouns are somewhat confusing. Maybe the pronoun isn’t WRONG, but it’s not ideal, either.

I also have absolutely no idea why the future tense “will be” appears in this sentence.

So we have plenty of good reasons to ditch (A).

Quote:
(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are

The first “they” is definitely wrong in (B). The only plural nouns earlier in the sentence are “public universities” and “activity fees”, and neither of those make sense. The sentence is trying to say that universities can collect fees even if students have objections to particular activities – and the only form of “students” in the sentence is actually an adjective (“student activity fees”).

There’s also a meaning issue that stems from the parallelism in (B). We have: “…public universities may collect student activity fees even if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are chosen without regard to their views.

That doesn’t actually make sense: the sentence is not trying to say that universities may collect fees even if groups receive money without regard to their views. The sentence is trying to say that universities may collect fees as long as the groups receive money without regard to their views. That last part is a requirement imposed by the Supreme Court, so it’s wrong to precede the phrase with “even if.”

So (B) is out.

Quote:
(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be

Welp, “they” is still wrong at the beginning of the underlined portion. See the explanations for (A) and (B) above for more on the pronoun issue.

You could also argue that the end of the underlined portion is unnecessarily messy: “the groups that the money is given to have to be” is a very wordy way to say “the groups given money must be…” By itself, this isn’t necessarily WRONG, but it’s not great, either.

And even if you don’t agree with anything I wrote in that last paragraph, the pronoun issues are enough to eliminate (C).

Let’s line up our last two candidates side-by-side:
Quote:
(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are
(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be

The meaning of that first part of the underlined portion is very different in (E) than in (D). (E) is literally saying that universities may collect activity fees “even though students” object to certain activities. The trouble is, it’s not clear WHICH students object to the fees. (D), on the other hand, clarifies that universities can collect fees from the specific students who object to particular activities. And the meaning of (D) makes a whole lot more sense, given the context of the sentence.

The last part of the underlined portion is also much better in (D) than in (E). The sentence is trying to say that universities can collect fees only if the groups given money are “chosen without regard to their views.” (D) correctly conveys that meaning with the phrase “as long as”; (E) loses part of the point of the sentence by using “but” instead.

So (E) is out, and (D) is our answer.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Jul 2006, 14:57
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I thought the correct idiom would be "as long as" and not "so long as".

Didn't know it exists. Seems I am alone to wonder about this point... :?
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Oct 2012, 22:29
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"universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities"

it sounds like the universities are collecting both fees and objections together - collecting fees with objections, like collecting dolls with special dresses. But that doesn't make any sense, right?

So I scanned down to see what my other options are. "universities may collect student activity fees even..."
A) with objections
B/C) if they (have objections / object)
D) from students who object
E) though students have an objection

A just repeats the original - eliminate.

B and C use the pronoun "they" so I've got to scan back and see whether "students" (the logical antecedent) is in the sentence. It's not, so "they" has no antecedent (ie, noun to which "they" refers). Eliminate B and C.

"student" isn't in possessive form, so it's not possessive poison, but "student" is an adjective here. "Student activity fees" - the noun is "fees" and "student" is just describing the type of fee. So you still couldn't use even a singular pronoun to refer to the word "student" because "student" isn't a noun in the original sentence.

a pronoun has to work both structurally and logically. If you use a subject pronoun in a later clause, then you would structurally expect the noun antecedent to be the subject of an earlier clause. If the pronoun points to one noun structurally but logically it points to a different one, that's ambiguous - and therefore wrong.

So let's look at B: "universities may collect student activity fees even if they have objections to particular activities..." In this part, "they" is a subject pronoun, so the structural antecedent is "universities" - but logically that doesn't make sense. Logically, "they" should refer to students who object to the activities (and that noun is not even in the sentence!). So that's a mismatch and B is wrong.

E has multiple problems. This opening bit that we've been looking at changes the meaning: instead of saying "I can collect money from everyone, even from those students who object," it's saying "I can collect money even though (all) students object." The word "but" later in the sentence also changes the intent - the stuff after the comma is supposed to indicate the rule that the universities have to follow in order to collect money from everyone. The word "but" introduces a contrast, which isn't the right meaning. There are other problems with this one, but that's enough to eliminate!

That leaves us with D.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude  [#permalink]

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New post 17 Jul 2017, 10:32
The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be

- Usage of "they" is not clear here, we do not know if "they" is referring to Pub. Universities, Students or Groups
- Also, "will be" is incorrect tense here as the supreme court's order has already been passed


(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are

- "they" here is referring to "student activity fees" which makes it ill logical to say, "student activity fees" have objections

(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be

- "they" here is referring to "student activity fees" which makes it ill logical to say, "student activity fees" have objections
- "have to be" is redundent

(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are

- CORRECT
- Even from students who object - more idiomatic
- Are is uses the correct tense


(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be

- have an objection is wordy for object

Hence, Answer is D

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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude  [#permalink]

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New post 23 Jul 2017, 10:23
The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be

--> 'they' dont have clear antecedent , will be --> would be (past + conditional)

(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are

--> 'they' dont have clear antecedent , "and" must follow "that" to introduce parallelism , change in meaning as both clauses are at same level where as clause 2 must be contion for application of clause 1

(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be

--> 'they' dont have clear antecedent

(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are

Correct

(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be


Experts : Pls help me understand following .

1. what else is wrong in option c ?
2. Past + present like in option D ok ?
3. what is wrong in option E
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Aug 2017, 06:14
I chose E.

I don't know how D is better than E. Isn't "the groups given money are" in D, a little weird?
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude  [#permalink]

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rishabhdxt wrote:
The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be

(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are

(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be

(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are

(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be


Experts : Pls help me understand following .

1. what else is wrong in option c ?
2. Past + present like in option D ok ?
3. what is wrong in option E



Hello rishabhdxt,

I will be glad to help you with this one. :-)

1. Choice C is of course incorrect because there is no antecedent for the plural pronoun they. There is another error in this choice.

The original sentence presents a condition for collecting the fees. The condition is that the universities' decision to grant money to a particular group will not be influenced by the views of the group. This condition is evident by the usage of the phrase so long as. But there is no indicator in Choice C after but that presents this condition.


2. All the verbs in Choice D are in present tense. Please note that given is the verb-ed modifier that modifies the preceding noun groups.


3. Choice E is incorrect for two reasons:

i. Like Choice C, this choice also fails to present the condition exclusively.

ii. Use of Subjunctive verb be chosen is incorrect because there is no trigger verb in the choice that requires use of subjunctive verb.



Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Sep 2017, 15:26
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rekhabishop wrote:
I chose E.

I don't know how D is better than E. Isn't "the groups given money are" in D, a little weird?




Hello rekhabishop,

You can go through my response to rishabhdxt to know what are the errors in Choice E.


Use of the phrase the groups given money are chosen is correct. Basically this phrase is the abbreviated structure of the groups that are given money are chosen.... I am sure now the expression read better to you.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude  [#permalink]

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New post 23 Sep 2017, 03:36
GMATNinja egmat mikemcgarry

Do experts agree on incorrect usage of - with - in option (A) ?
Even with students' objections turns out to be noun phrase when compared
with verb phrase - students who object , the later being more formal in conveying the purpose.
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Re: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect stude  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Sep 2017, 03:00
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adkikani wrote:
GMATNinja egmat mikemcgarry

Do experts agree on incorrect usage of - with - in option (A) ?
Even with students' objections turns out to be noun phrase when compared
with verb phrase - students who object , the later being more formal in conveying the purpose.




Hello Arpit adkikani,

Thank you for the PM. :-)

The original sentence states that public universities may collect student activity fees. Hence, it is obvious that students are supposed to pay the fee.

IMHO, the way the original sentence is worded, there is no grammatical issue with even with students' objections to particular activities because with objection, we cannot use any other preposition.

Yes indeed, the expression even from students who object to particular activities is far superior to above-mentioned expression in Choice A because this expression very clearly presents the intended meaning of the sentence.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: QOTD: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Jan 2018, 01:50
The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be -ambiguous they. No antecedent

(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are -They doesn't have any antecedent

(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be -They doesn't have any antecedent; "but" is wrongly used.

(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are -CORRECT

(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be -"but" is wrongly used
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Re: QOTD: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Jan 2018, 10:10
Is 'their' in the qstn not ambiguous?
It can refer to public universities or students

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Re: QOTD: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Jan 2018, 11:11
souvik101990 wrote:
The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be

(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are

(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be

(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are

(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be


Clearly with (D), errors in other options highlighted.
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Re: QOTD: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Jan 2018, 02:03
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(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are -Can They have antecedent as groups

(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be -Can They have antecedent as groups
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Re: QOTD: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Jan 2018, 16:16
akshata19 wrote:
Is 'their' in the qstn not ambiguous?
It can refer to public universities or students

Posted from my mobile device



Hello akshata19,

I will be glad to help you out with this one. :-)

The pronoun their in the non-underlined portion of this official sentence logically refers to groups.

The sentence presents a condition that the groups that are selected must be chosen without regard to their = the groups' views.

The sentence does not talk about the universities' or the students' views.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: QOTD: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Jan 2018, 16:20
nishantmba wrote:
(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are -Can They have antecedent as groups

(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be -Can They have antecedent as groups



Hello nishantmba,

I will be glad to answer this one for you. :-)

The plural pronoun they in choices B and C cannot refer to the plural noun the groups.

Pay close attention to what the sentence says. It says that the universities may collect money [u]student activity fees[/u]. The phrase makes it clear that the students are entitled to pay this fees, no matter they are willing or not willing to do.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: QOTD: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect  [#permalink]

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New post 17 May 2018, 09:15
souvik101990 wrote:

Verbal Question of The Day: Day 201: Sentence Correction


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The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect student activity fees even with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be chosen without regard to their views.

(A) with students' objections to particular activities, so long as the groups they give money to will be

(B) if they have objections to particular activities and the groups that are given the money are

(C) if they object to particular activities, but the groups that the money is given to have to be

(D) from students who object to particular activities, so long as the groups given money are

(E) though students have an objection to particular activities, but the groups that are given the money be


Every question of the day will be followed by an expert reply by GMATNinja in 12-15 hours. Stay tuned! Post your answers and explanations to earn kudos.



Hello GMATNinja :)

these 700 level SC questions are really tricky....itend to miss some deatils ...

what I dont understand is this expression " the groups given money are" "are" cant refer to money right ? because money is "is" so "are" refers to "groups" but does it make sense ? i dont get logogical conecttion... on the other hand if it were " the groups given money is" sounds better but it wouldnt link the remaining part of sentence.

Is is some specfic senteance construction :? the groups given money are" how do we call this sentence construction.... does it mean that groups that give money are chosen.....?

have a great weekend :) i can already smell a weekend mood one day before it :)
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Re: QOTD: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect  [#permalink]

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New post 18 May 2018, 08:37
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dave13 wrote:
Hello GMATNinja :)

these 700 level SC questions are really tricky....itend to miss some deatils ...

what I dont understand is this expression " the groups given money are" "are" cant refer to money right ? because money is "is" so "are" refers to "groups" but does it make sense ? i dont get logogical conecttion... on the other hand if it were " the groups given money is" sounds better but it wouldnt link the remaining part of sentence.

Is is some specfic senteance construction :? the groups given money are" how do we call this sentence construction.... does it mean that groups that give money are chosen.....?

have a great weekend :) i can already smell a weekend mood one day before it :)

Ah, the delicious, slightly moist smell of weekend... :grin:

I'm not a huge fan of the grammar jargon, but here's the heart of that part of the sentence:

    "...the groups... are chosen without regard to their views."

So yes, "groups" are the grammatical subject here. It's in passive voice, and the sentence never actually states who, exactly, chooses the groups. We just know that the groups are chosen (by an unnamed somebody) without regard to those groups' views.

Adding the bit about money back in, we have:

    "...the groups given money are chosen without regard to their views."

The phrase "given money" is just modifying "the groups." Basically, it just clarifies that "the groups" we're discussing are specifically the groups that receive money.

I hope that helps, and enjoy the weekend!
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Re: QOTD: The Supreme Court has ruled that public universities may collect &nbs [#permalink] 18 May 2018, 08:37
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