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There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the

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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 18 Feb 2016, 12:24
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truongynhi wrote:
Hi Mike,

I would like to ask about the SVA problem in choice A.

I thought that 'the way' is a singular subject, and it remains singular even after being added some modifier. Specifically, I thought, 'THE WAY the term turnover and the term revenue' is just one way. Hence, it takes a singular verb 'is'. If we want to specify that there are multiple WAYS, why don't we use 'the ways the term turnover and the term revenue'?

In your explanation, you said that 'the term turnover and the term revenue' are compound subjects. How about 'the way'? 'The way' is not the subject here?

Could you please point out what is wrong with my flawed reasoning? I sometimes get confused with the rules of SVA.

I very appreciate your help!
Nhi

Dear Nhi,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, you are perfectly correct. This is such a vulgar colloquial construct, more typical of uneducated teenagers than of the GMAT, that I didn't give it the grammatical credit it deserves. Yes, if we accept "the way" as the subject, it is singular and would take a singular verb. In this absolutely atrocious and unacceptable structure, the SVA itself is perfect.

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 09 Aug 2016, 06:45
mikemcgarry wrote:
Dear JusTLucK04
I'm happy to respond. :-)

I am not a huge fan of this question. I will say, the question does all kinds of sophisticated things with rhetoric, and the rhetorical differences have students analyzing all kinds of things, but much of the question actually hinges on subject-verb agreement (SVA). See:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/subject-ve ... orrection/

Let's look at this:
There is a difference in the way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" is used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas in Europe "turnover" refers to a company's income, known in the States as revenue.
(A) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" is used in business across the Atlantic; in the States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas
OK, this answer is clearly wrong. The structure "the way the term is used" is extremely casual, not formal. Also, there's a clear SVA problem: the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" is used. Compound subjects require plural verbs. This choice is 100% wrong.

(B) use of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas
This one arguably may have a SVA problem: "the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs." Hmmm. If we read literally, and consider those as different things, (i) "the inventory acquisition" and (ii) "transaction," then of course, we would need a plural verb. The problem is --- we are not necessarily familiar with the concept, and the way it is stated, both modified by the noun "inventory", suggests that it might be construed as a singular aggregate. In other words, it is conceivable that "the inventory acquisition and transaction" is a single thing, despite the "and" in the name, and needs a singular verb. Admittedly, the GMAT itself would never give such a thing and expect us to realize that it needed a singular verb, but such things do exist in the language ( e.g. "a bed and breakfast", "salt and paper is on the table", etc.). The way this is phrased makes it unclear whether it should fit in the aggregate-construed-as-singular category, and because of this, I would call this answer "gray", in between, not clearly right but not unambiguously wrong.

(C) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" are used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occur since
Again, we have the casual structure, "the way the terms are used." Also, the "since" at the end implies an illogical cause-effect relationship that is not present in the prompt and is not justified by context. This is 100% wrong.

(D) usage of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; the rapidness of inventory acquisition and transaction is called "turnover" in the United States whereas
Nothing wrong. Could be an answer.

(E) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" are used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, the rate at which the inventory acquisition and transaction occur are called "turnover" whereas
Again, we have the casual structure, "the way the terms are used." Also, a clear SVA problem "the rate ... are called." This is 100% wrong.

OK, at least (A) & (C) & (E) are unambiguously wrong. Choice (D) is somewhat unconventional rhetorically in the second part of the underlined section, but this is not wrong: it is well within the limits of valid parallelism. When two clauses are in parallel, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are in lockstep in their word order; for a variety of rhetorical reasons, it may be appropriate to vary the word orders in two parallel clauses. The real problem in my mind is (B), which implies a relatively obscure structure that could be interpreted differently. This is what happens when folks who really don't understand the deep logic of GMAT SC questions try to write challenging questions. This may be why this question has generated so much discussion on this page. A good solid GMAT question has one completely clear right answer and four choices that are each unambiguously wrong. I'm just not happy with this question.

Here's a high quality SC question:
http://gmat.magoosh.com/questions/3274

That's my two cents.

Mike :-)



I don't think there is any issue with "way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" " because that's what sentence mean to say.
I have ruled out A for S_V agreement : way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" is used in business across the Atlantic; in the States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas


C for
(C) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" are used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occur since

Except this problem, this is much better way to write considering parallelism.


"turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occur
"turnover" refers to a company's income, known in the States as revenue.

but since is entirely a misfit.
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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 19 Aug 2016, 10:54
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smkashyap wrote:
Isn't there a parallelism error in the main clause in (D)? Shouldn't it be- In the US, turnover refers to 'something' whereas in Europe turnover refers to 'something else'?

Dear smkashyap,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, your question is a variant of one that has been asked a few times in this thread. The short answer is: NO, it's not an error.

You see, many students mistakenly believe that parallelism is a grammatical structure, and that the point is to match each grammatical part with lockstep precision. In fact, that is a profound misunderstanding of parallelism that the GMAT loves to punish. You see, parallelism is primarily a logical structure, not a grammatical structure, and the grammar simply follows the logic. There only has to be enough grammatical matching to make the logic correspondences clear. We don't have to say everything in same order. We don't have to have two verbs in the same tense. We could use a modifying clause in one branch and not in the other. None of that matters. Parallelism is NOT about matching every last detail, so that the two branches of the parallelism are like two panels of wallpaper. The essence of the parallelism lies in the realm of logic, and the only role of the matching grammar is to make the logical pattern of correspondences clear. In parallelism, grammar has a simple job to do, and it is not require to anything beyond this job.

Here is version (D):
There is a difference in the usage of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; the rapidness of inventory acquisition and transaction is called "turnover" in the United States whereas in Europe "turnover" refers to a company's income, known in the States as revenue.

In the second half of that sentence, it clear from the grammar that we are comparing two usages of the word "turnover," in each case telling us what the term means, first in Europe, then in the US. The pattern of logical correspondence is crystal clear and 100% unambiguous. Thus, the grammar has done its job.

Does all this make sense?

Mike :-)
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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 25 Aug 2016, 11:44
pranav6082 wrote:
Hi Mike,

Loved your response on proposition, noun, and parallelism. Learned important lessons from them.

I have a small doubt. Could you please explain in detail what do we mean when we say The structure "the way the term is used" is extremely casual, not formal. How do we define casual/formal or some people say wordy/awkward construction? Are there rules associated to these concepts?

Much thanks!
Pranav

Dear Pranav,

I'm happy to respond. :-) With all due respect, my friend, you are asking for a left-brain answer to a right-brain question. Those are terms related to neuroscience. Roughly speaking,
left-brain = precise distinctions, step-by-step instructions, clear rules
right-brain = pattern-matching, intuition
This blog article will talk a little more about this distinction in a math context.

Rule of grammar are, for the most part, left-brained. We can clearly say why something is right or wrong according to, say, SVA rules. The grammar on the SC question can be mostly explained in terms of rules. By contrast, the issues of logic and rhetoric, which are just as important as grammar, are more right-brain in their nature.

The distinction of "wordy vs. succinct" is very different from the distinction of "formal vs. informal." Those are two completely separate criteria.

1) Wordy: The GMAT practice math problems that a student would find on GMAT Club are a quality that is of a particular lofty nature.
2) Concise: "The practice math questions on GMAT Club are excellent."
Both of those are reasonably formal, but the first is so wordy that it is ridiculous.

3) Informal: "The math stuff you get on GMAT Club really rocks."
That's concise, but it uses language typical of a poorly educated teenager. It is not formal at all, and for that reason, it would be inappropriate for the GMAT.

How do you learn the pattern for formal vs. informal? There are no "rules." You have to learn this the way you learn any right-brain skill: by gaining experience and allowing your intuition to develop over time. Everything in the GMAT OG is very formal. In my blogs on the Magoosh blog and in the MGMAT books, you will find formal writing. Some of the higher quality newspapers and news journals have very good standards. You need to read to develop a sense for this. See:
How to Improve Your GMAT Verbal Score
You also can ask the other experts and me such questions.

In this particular instance:
formal: "the use of the term 'turnover'"
informal: "the way the term 'turnover' is used"
Any construction of the form "the way X is done" is extremely informal and not at all GMAT worthy.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Mike :-)
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There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 08 Sep 2016, 22:35
One of the best questions indeed. The major rule tested here is that two subjects combined together with and make the collection plural.

For example. X is good. Y is good. X and Y are good.

Based on this rule, I could eliminate 4 options. Highlighted the incorrect segments.

(A) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" is used in business across the Atlantic; in the States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas should be 'are'

(B) use of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas | should be 'occur'

(C) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" are used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occur since | "Since should be replaced with whereas to bring the contrast that the statement focuses on"

(D) usage of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; the rapidness of inventory acquisition and transaction is called "turnover" in the United States whereas Correct. | Here, the subject is not inventory acquisition and transaction. The subject is THE RAPIDNESS OF x and y IS

(E) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" are used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, the rate at which the inventory acquisition and transaction occur are called "turnover" whereas | Here, the subject is not inventory acquisition and transaction. The subject is THE RATE OF x and y IS

Hope this helps.
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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 25 Nov 2016, 17:23
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rezwan001 wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry
Happy thanksgiving.
I was just wondering if the structure "refers to how rapidly . . " is correct here? Is this a split?
If not, I may have gotten this right but my reasoning hinged on wrong logic.
Thanks

Dear rezwan001,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, this is NOT a split infinitive, because there's no infinitive at all here.

The verb "refer" idiomatically takes the preposition "to," and like any preposition, this preposition has to be followed by a noun or something playing the role of a noun. Items that can play the role of a noun are gerunds and substantive clauses (aka noun clauses).

The clause "how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs" is a substantive clause, that is, a clause that plays a noun-role in a sentence. Such a clause could be the subject, the direct object, or (as here) the object of a preposition.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 12 Feb 2017, 21:01
Hi mikemcgarry ,

I read all your previous responses and understood why B is incorrect and D is correct. However, I still have one doubt regarding "Use/Usage" in options B and D.

(B) use of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas

(D) usage of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; the rapidness of inventory acquisition and transaction is called "turnover" in the United States whereas

Is USE in option B correct as per the context? I have been using "Use and Usage" interchangeably so not sure whether we have split based on this word and what is correct as per GMAT standards.

Thanks.
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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 13 Feb 2017, 14:50
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pranjal123 wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry ,

I read all your previous responses and understood why B is incorrect and D is correct. However, I still have one doubt regarding "Use/Usage" in options B and D.

(B) use of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas

(D) usage of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; the rapidness of inventory acquisition and transaction is called "turnover" in the United States whereas

Is USE in option B correct as per the context? I have been using "Use and Usage" interchangeably so not sure whether we have split based on this word and what is correct as per GMAT standards.

Thanks.

Dear pranjal123,

I'm happy to respond. :-) My friend, a suggestion: when you are quoting text from a problem, put that text in a color, to distinguish it from your own words.

The difference between "use" and "usage" is subtle. By itself, this would not be the make-or-break point in this question. The word "use" is general and generic--the use of a pronoun, the use of a hammer, the use of a jet ski, the use of a garlic in cooking, the use of sarcasm in advertising, the use of humor in religion, etc. That word is not incorrect, but it could be used in a variety of context in a very general way. The word "usage" is far more precise, because it's very specifically about the grammatical use of individual words in context. Thus, the word "usage" is better, but the word "use" is not wrong.

The possible SVA problem in (B) is a bigger problem.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 29 Mar 2017, 14:46
spring2015 wrote:
Thanks, Mike!, I chose B for the same reason as you described. I'd also appreciate your view on the usage of the noun "rapidness" over adverb "rapidly".
Thanks.

Dear spring2015,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

This is subtle. In general when we have a choice between expressing action as a noun or a verb, expressing it as a verb tends to make a sentence sound more active and powerful. Similarly, adverbs are "closer" to verbs, closer to the action at the center of a sentence. Thus, as a very general pattern, there is some tendency to expect that using the noun would be less preferable. For example,
The rapidness with which I finished the task was impressive to her. = bad!
I rapidly finished the task: she was impressed! = good!
Notice that both are 100% grammatically correct: this is about what the GMAT calls rhetorical construction. This is a hard topic, because there are no black/white rules for it.

It's harder to use the noun-form and make a sentence that sounds good, but that's exactly what happens in the OA. They used "rapidness" as a subject and it was a rhetorically sound construction. In other word, they did something that usually isn't successful, but they did such a good job that they were successful.

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 31 Mar 2017, 04:54
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Thanks Mike!!
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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 01 Apr 2017, 01:06
I eliminated option d because second half of the sentence does not seems to be parallel, the rapidness and in Europe..
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New post 01 Apr 2017, 15:24
D is right because, semicolon is used to give examples or explain terms or compare

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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 02 Apr 2017, 02:17
VKat wrote:
I eliminated option d because second half of the sentence does not seems to be parallel, the rapidness and in Europe..


"Whereas" introduces a dependent clause - a dependent clause and an independent clause need not have the same construct. Moreover even if you consider parallelism between the dependent and the independent clause here, "in Europe" is parallel to "in the United States" (their positions in the clause are not same though).
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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 02 Apr 2017, 02:21
zinesujeetkumar wrote:
D is right because, semicolon is used to give examples or explain terms or compare

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No, semicolon (;) is not used to introduce examples or explain terms - I think you confused it with colon (:). Semicolon is used to separate two independent clauses.
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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jun 2017, 21:34
There is a difference in the way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" is/are used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas in Europe "turnover" refers to a company's income, known in the States as revenue.

Th first part of the answer choices A,C & E read like the highlighted statement. I rejected the ACs because I assumed that 2 independent clauses are joined together without that/how .

Pls let me know if there are any gaps in my understanding.
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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jun 2017, 03:42
(A) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" is used in business across the Atlantic; in the States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas- INCORRECT as occurs should be occur

(B) use of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas- INCORRECT as the use of 'use' is wrong

(C) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" are used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occur since- INCORRECT due to use of 'since'

(D) usage of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; the rapidness of inventory acquisition and transaction is called "turnover" in the United States whereas- CORRECT.. even through the second half after semicolon could have been more parallel

(E) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" are used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, the rate at which the inventory acquisition and transaction occur are called "turnover" whereas - INCORRECT as 'are' should be 'is'
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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 03 Nov 2017, 12:35
There is a difference in the way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" is used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas in Europe "turnover" refers to a company's income, known in the States as revenue.

    (A) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" is used in business across the Atlantic; in the States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas--- must be plural(2 terms)-wrong

    (B) use of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas--must be plural

    (C) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" are used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occur since... must be whereas or something for comparison

    (D) usage of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; the rapidness of inventory acquisition and transaction is called "turnover" in the United States whereas..correct

    (E) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" are used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, the rate at which the inventory acquisition and transaction occur are called "turnover" whereas
[/quote].... must be singular
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Re: There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 05 Nov 2017, 12:30
There is a difference in the way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" is used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas in Europe "turnover" refers to a company's income, known in the States as revenue.

(A) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" is used in business across the Atlantic; in the States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas

(B) use of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occurs whereas

(C) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" are used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, "turnover" refers to how rapidly the inventory acquisition and transaction occur since

(D) usage of the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" in business across the Atlantic; the rapidness of inventory acquisition and transaction is called "turnover" in the United States whereas

(E) way the term "turnover" and the term "revenue" are used in business across the Atlantic; in the United States, the rate at which the inventory acquisition and transaction occur are called "turnover" whereas
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There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the [#permalink]

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New post 13 Mar 2018, 14:00
Eliminate A for Subject-Verb disagreement: There is a difference in the way term X and term Y 'is' used. Should be 'are'.

Eliminate B for change in meaning. There is a difference between the way the term X and term Y are used and not the use itself. Besides, 'occurs' should be 'occur'.

Eliminate C for using 'since' which doesn't create the necessary contrast.

Eliminate E for Subject-Verb disagreement. The rate at which something 'occur are' is a clear error.

Hence, D is the correct answer.
There is a difference in the way the term turnover and the   [#permalink] 13 Mar 2018, 14:00

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