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# To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers

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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers [#permalink]

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06 Oct 2016, 00:04
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers [#permalink]

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06 Oct 2016, 04:54
english_august wrote:
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.

A. have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
B. have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
C. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
D. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E. would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economical

honestly, I do not understand the application of conditional mode to this problem.

I think A is wrong because A offer 2 possibilities,
more than they have to know
more than they know
so, A is considered ambiguity and is incorrect.

choice D is very clear because "they do" means "they know".

og explanation sometime is not enough. that is why we are here.
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers [#permalink]

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20 Oct 2016, 20:08
I rejected choices with "would" because "would" conveys a sense of possibility but question stem conveys the meaning that "demographers have to know a great deal", its not a possibility or a choice.

Please explain the gap in my understanding.
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers [#permalink]

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13 Dec 2016, 08:00
hbs2012 wrote:
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic detriments of fertility.

(A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
(B) have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(C) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
(E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economical

Question 32 Set 1

help

why A is wrong?
A means
demographer have to know more than they HAVE TO KNOW NOW. this is not logic
D means
demographer have to know more than they do/ know now. remember "do" can not refer to "have to" because "have to" now works as helping verb. so "do" grammatically refer to "know" .

am i correct?
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers [#permalink]

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18 Feb 2017, 03:03
Hi mikemcgarry,
How are you ?

I know here is a video to explain of this question on Magoosh, unfortunately, YOUTUBE is not available in China, I am afraid I need your further writing explanation.

My version, from O 16 # 61, is a little different with the initial poster, I found that last word of choice is economic , instead of economical

OG 16 # 61 version,
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.
(A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
(B) have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(C) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
(E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic

I am struggling with A, D and E.
I can understand that comparison should be logical, meaning
for this case, the comparison is either future time VS present time, or future knowledge VS present knowledge,

Here is my reasoning , please point out my faults. thanks
A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
first, I think "have to know "is sensible, because it presents the necessary to get the knowledge in order to improve future accuracy.
second, I review choice A as omit, -- have to know a great deal more than( they know ) now.
"they" refers to demographers, know is a verb that appears preceding.

D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
first, IMO, "would have to know" presents demographers' necessary in the future, I think of it as available as well.
second, both D and E have a comparison that "demographers have to know " VS "they know/do" .. I am not sure how should I distinguish D and E, because I think that E omits "they do".

Genuinely want your help

have a nice day
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers [#permalink]

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20 Feb 2017, 10:27
zoezhuyan wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry,
How are you ?

I know here is a video to explain of this question on Magoosh, unfortunately, YOUTUBE is not available in China, I am afraid I need your further writing explanation.

My version, from O 16 # 61, is a little different with the initial poster, I found that last word of choice is economic , instead of economical.

OG 16 # 61 version,
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.
(A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
(B) have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(C) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
(E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic

I am struggling with A, D and E.
I can understand that comparison should be logical, meaning
for this case, the comparison is either future time VS present time, or future knowledge VS present knowledge,

Here is my reasoning , please point out my faults. thanks
A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
first, I think "have to know "is sensible, because it presents the necessary to get the knowledge in order to improve future accuracy.
second, I review choice A as omit, -- have to know a great deal more than( they know ) now.
"they" refers to demographers, know is a verb that appears preceding.

D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
first, IMO, "would have to know" presents demographers' necessary in the future, I think of it as available as well.
second, both D and E have a comparison that "demographers have to know " VS "they know/do" .. I am not sure how should I distinguish D and E, because I think that E omits "they do".

Genuinely want your help

have a nice day
>_~

Dear zoezhuyan,

How are you my friend? I'm happy to respond.

My friend, you are correct: other sources on the web list choice (E) as "economic," not "economical." I changed the original post.

What's wrong with (A) is subtle. The sentence begins:
To develop more accurate population forecasts . . .
The implication is that the forecast now are not accurate, at least not as accurate as they could be. This is suggesting a contrary-to-fact situation, the existence of something better than what exists now. In fact, the whole sentence has this contrary-to-fact tone, comparing what would be ideal to what is true now. All of this requires the verb "would have." This has a hypothetical implication. The verb "have" sounds too factual, as if all these ideal conditions were already in existence. This is why (A) is wrong.

To understand the difference between (D) and (E), think about a simpler example.
Version #1: In order to get a perfect score on the GMAT Verbal, you would need to know more than now.
Version #2: In order to get a perfect score on the GMAT Verbal, you would need to know more than you know now.
Version #1 sounds awkward. Yes, we know what the speaker is trying to say, but it sounds awkward. It sounds as if we are comparing knowledge to the location in time known as "now." It's awkward in a bizarre way. By contrast, version #2 is flawless.

Much in the same way, (E) is a a bit awkward, and (D) is clear and flawless. Thus, (D) is the better answer of these two and the best of the five.

Does all this make sense, my friend?
Mike
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers [#permalink]

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20 Feb 2017, 20:21
mikemcgarry wrote:
Dear zoezhuyan,

How are you my friend? I'm happy to respond.

My friend, you are correct: other sources on the web list choice (E) as "economic," not "economical." I changed the original post.

What's wrong with (A) is subtle. The sentence begins:
To develop more accurate population forecasts . . .
The implication is that the forecast now are not accurate, at least not as accurate as they could be. This is suggesting a contrary-to-fact situation, the existence of something better than what exists now. In fact, the whole sentence has this contrary-to-fact tone, comparing what would be ideal to what is true now. All of this requires the verb "would have." This has a hypothetical implication. The verb "have" sounds too factual, as if all these ideal conditions were already in existence. This is why (A) is wrong.

To understand the difference between (D) and (E), think about a simpler example.
Version #1: In order to get a perfect score on the GMAT Verbal, you would need to know more than now.
Version #2: In order to get a perfect score on the GMAT Verbal, you would need to know more than you know now.
Version #1 sounds awkward. Yes, we know what the speaker is trying to say, but it sounds awkward. It sounds as if we are comparing knowledge to the location in time known as "now." It's awkward in a bizarre way. By contrast, version #2 is flawless.

Much in the same way, (E) is a a bit awkward, and (D) is clear and flawless. Thus, (D) is the better answer of these two and the best of the five.

Does all this make sense, my friend?
Mike

I think I interpreted deeper,
thanks so much indeed mikemcgarry

Have a nice day
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers [#permalink]

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19 May 2017, 07:41
english_august wrote:
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.

A. have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
B. have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
C. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
D. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E. would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic

A "Have to know" is indicative, but the sentence demands a subjunctive verb "would."
B "Have to know" is indicative, but the sentence demands a subjunctive verb "would."
C "Economical" means "thrifty," not "pertaining the economy."
D Correct.
E Knowledge ("would have to know") cannot be compared to the present moment ("now"). This structure is neither parallel nor logical.
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers [#permalink]

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13 Aug 2017, 20:59
If both verbs are in the present tense -- demographers HAVE TO KNOW more than they DO now -- the implication is that both actions are happening in the present.
The result is a nonsensical meaning: how can demographers KNOW more than they KNOW?
To make it clear that the situation is HYPOTHETICAL, the subjunctive is needed: demographers WOULD HAVE TO KNOW more than they DO now.
One purpose of the subjunctive is to convey a situation that is CONTRARY-TO-FACT or HYPOTHETICAL.
The intended meaning here is to compare what demographers KNOW NOW -- in reality -- to what they WOULD HAVE TO KNOW -- hypothetically -- to develop more accurate forecasts.
To make it clear that one action is real while the other is hypothetical, the hypothetical action must be in the subjunctive mood (WOULD have to know). Eliminate A and B.

In C, economical -- which means thrifty -- does not convey the intended meaning. The needed word here is ECONOMIC (which means related to the economy). Eliminate C.

In E (demographers would have to know a great deal more than NOW), it is unclear what is being compared. To make it clear that a hypothetical action is being compared to an actual action, we need the contrasting verbs offered by D: demographers WOULD HAVE TO KNOW a great deal more than they DO [know] now. Eliminate E.
The correct answer is D.
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers [#permalink]

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01 Dec 2017, 03:29
mikemcgarry wrote:
zoezhuyan wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry,
How are you ?

I know here is a video to explain of this question on Magoosh, unfortunately, YOUTUBE is not available in China, I am afraid I need your further writing explanation.

My version, from O 16 # 61, is a little different with the initial poster, I found that last word of choice is economic , instead of economical.

OG 16 # 61 version,
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.
(A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
(B) have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(C) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
(D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
(E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic

I am struggling with A, D and E.
I can understand that comparison should be logical, meaning
for this case, the comparison is either future time VS present time, or future knowledge VS present knowledge,

Here is my reasoning , please point out my faults. thanks
A) have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
first, I think "have to know "is sensible, because it presents the necessary to get the knowledge in order to improve future accuracy.
second, I review choice A as omit, -- have to know a great deal more than( they know ) now.
"they" refers to demographers, know is a verb that appears preceding.

D) would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E) would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
first, IMO, "would have to know" presents demographers' necessary in the future, I think of it as available as well.
second, both D and E have a comparison that "demographers have to know " VS "they know/do" .. I am not sure how should I distinguish D and E, because I think that E omits "they do".

Genuinely want your help

have a nice day
>_~

Dear zoezhuyan,

How are you my friend? I'm happy to respond.

My friend, you are correct: other sources on the web list choice (E) as "economic," not "economical." I changed the original post.

What's wrong with (A) is subtle. The sentence begins:
To develop more accurate population forecasts . . .
The implication is that the forecast now are not accurate, at least not as accurate as they could be. This is suggesting a contrary-to-fact situation, the existence of something better than what exists now. In fact, the whole sentence has this contrary-to-fact tone, comparing what would be ideal to what is true now. All of this requires the verb "would have." This has a hypothetical implication. The verb "have" sounds too factual, as if all these ideal conditions were already in existence. This is why (A) is wrong.

To understand the difference between (D) and (E), think about a simpler example.
Version #1: In order to get a perfect score on the GMAT Verbal, you would need to know more than now.
Version #2: In order to get a perfect score on the GMAT Verbal, you would need to know more than you know now.
Version #1 sounds awkward. Yes, we know what the speaker is trying to say, but it sounds awkward. It sounds as if we are comparing knowledge to the location in time known as "now." It's awkward in a bizarre way. By contrast, version #2 is flawless.

Much in the same way, (E) is a a bit awkward, and (D) is clear and flawless. Thus, (D) is the better answer of these two and the best of the five.

Does all this make sense, my friend?
Mike

Hi Mike,
option d looks the best. But I have a query with the use of would. Would is used correctly when there is a reference of another past event.
Ex- If I had 10 million \$, I would buy the luxury car.
Ex- The scientist believes that the machine would be wonderful.

The above example is wrong as 'believes' is in present. If believes is replaced by 'believed' the ex becomes correct.
Again, if we the have the sentence- I would buy the car, this sentence is wrong as we dont have a clear past event reference.
Now, in option D, would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical- here do is in present tense and so how can we ignore the past tense reference.
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Posts: 4650
Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers [#permalink]

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04 Dec 2017, 16:47
sunny91 wrote:

Hi Mike,
option d looks the best. But I have a query with the use of would. Would is used correctly when there is a reference of another past event.
Ex- If I had 10 million \$, I would buy the luxury car.
Ex- The scientist believes that the machine would be wonderful.

The above example is wrong as 'believes' is in present. If believes is replaced by 'believed' the ex becomes correct.
Again, if we the have the sentence- I would buy the car, this sentence is wrong as we dont have a clear past event reference.
Now, in option D, would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical- here do is in present tense and so how can we ignore the past tense reference.

Dear sunny91,

I'm happy to respond.

My friend, many student labor under the misconception that one can arrive at GMAT SC mastery by memorizing some mythical "complete" set of grammar rules. This rule-based approach to the GMAT SC is doomed to failure. Yes, there are some important rules, and it's important to know those--for example, SVA. Nevertheless, many patterns in language are much more complex and demand broad intuition about the language. The only way a non-native speaker develops this intuition is through the habit of reading. See:
How to Improve Your GMAT Verbal Score

I would say that any rule you have learned about the use of "would" is almost virtually useless, as this word has a bewildering multiplicity of uses.

One use is in the subjunctive, in a contrary-to-fact statement, the word "would" expresses the consequences in this contrary-to-fact world. Your first statement is an example of this.
1) If I had \$10M, I would buy a luxury car. = correct statement in the subjunctive

Another correct use involves somebody's speculation of a future possibility. Your second statement is correct in this sense:
2) The scientist believes that such a machine would be wonderful. = also 100% correct

Another use is as the future tense from the perspective of a speaker in the past, when using sequence of tenses.
3) By the summer of 1824, Beethoven felt that he had said all he wanted to say in symphonic form, but that he still would have more to say in the string quartet format.

Another use, admittedly somewhat less likely to show up on the GMAT, is as an expression of preference, often considered gracious and polite.
4) I would be interested to find out more about your trip.

All five of these are 100% correct. It's very hard to make a simple rule for "would."

Does all this make sense?
Mike
_________________

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Magoosh Test Prep

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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers [#permalink]

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04 Dec 2017, 21:20
mikemcgarry wrote:
sunny91 wrote:

Hi Mike,
option d looks the best. But I have a query with the use of would. Would is used correctly when there is a reference of another past event.
Ex- If I had 10 million \$, I would buy the luxury car.
Ex- The scientist believes that the machine would be wonderful.

The above example is wrong as 'believes' is in present. If believes is replaced by 'believed' the ex becomes correct.
Again, if we the have the sentence- I would buy the car, this sentence is wrong as we dont have a clear past event reference.
Now, in option D, would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical- here do is in present tense and so how can we ignore the past tense reference.

Dear sunny91,

I'm happy to respond.

My friend, many student labor under the misconception that one can arrive at GMAT SC mastery by memorizing some mythical "complete" set of grammar rules. This rule-based approach to the GMAT SC is doomed to failure. Yes, there are some important rules, and it's important to know those--for example, SVA. Nevertheless, many patterns in language are much more complex and demand broad intuition about the language. The only way a non-native speaker develops this intuition is through the habit of reading. See:
How to Improve Your GMAT Verbal Score

I would say that any rule you have learned about the use of "would" is almost virtually useless, as this word has a bewildering multiplicity of uses.

One use is in the subjunctive, in a contrary-to-fact statement, the word "would" expresses the consequences in this contrary-to-fact world. Your first statement is an example of this.
1) If I had \$10M, I would buy a luxury car. = correct statement in the subjunctive

Another correct use involves somebody's speculation of a future possibility. Your second statement is correct in this sense:
2) The scientist believes that such a machine would be wonderful. = also 100% correct

Another use is as the future tense from the perspective of a speaker in the past, when using sequence of tenses.
3) By the summer of 1824, Beethoven felt that he had said all he wanted to say in symphonic form, but that he still would have more to say in the string quartet format.

Another use, admittedly somewhat less likely to show up on the GMAT, is as an expression of preference, often considered gracious and polite.
4) I would be interested to find out more about your trip.

All five of these are 100% correct. It's very hard to make a simple rule for "would."

Does all this make sense?
Mike

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the response. Sorry to say, but I am still not very clear. I know that usage of would in case of desire/purpose avoid past reference. Example- I would like to have some tea.
Otherwise, in conditional/subjunctive case, we use a past reference. Now, u mentioned that the below sentence is 100% correct.
The scientist believes that such a machine would be wonderful. This is another correct use involves somebody's speculation of a future possibility.

My question is in logical terms whats is the difference in meaning
The scientist believes that such a machine would be wonderful. The scientist believed that such a machine would be wonderful.
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Re: To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers [#permalink]

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05 Dec 2017, 00:04
english_august wrote:
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.

A. have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic
B. have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
C. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economical
D. would have to know a great deal more than they do now about the social and economic
E. would have to know a great deal more than now about the social and economic

this is hard problem.
why A and E is wrong.
the point is "they do" in D make it clear that " than they know..." is the second part of comparison and so is logic and correct.
if we do not have "they do" , A and E means
they have to know more than they have to know now.
"they have to know now" is not logic. "they know now" as represented by C is logic
they would have to know more than they would have to know now
"they would have to know now" is not logic.

this is the main point why A and E are gone.
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Posts: 4650
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers [#permalink]

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05 Dec 2017, 14:21
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KUDOS
Expert's post
sunny91 wrote:
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the response. Sorry to say, but I am still not very clear. I know that usage of would in case of desire/purpose avoid past reference. Example- I would like to have some tea.
Otherwise, in conditional/subjunctive case, we use a past reference. Now, u mentioned that the below sentence is 100% correct.
The scientist believes that such a machine would be wonderful. This is another correct use involves somebody's speculation of a future possibility.

My question is in logical terms whats is the difference in meaning
The scientist believes that such a machine would be wonderful. The scientist believed that such a machine would be wonderful.

Dear sunny91,

I'm happy to respond. The difference concerns whether the future item is viewed as a sure thing or is speculative.

Case I: future event is viewed as factual and certain
present:
1) The general believes that the enemy will attack from the south.
past:
2) The general believed that the enemy would attack from the south.
There, "would" is just the past tense of "will." In both cases, the general was viewing the attack as something guaranteed to to happen, from his point of view. Since #2 is in the past, it might be followed by a factual statement of what actually did happen.

Case II: future event is hypothetical or contrary-to-fact.
present:
3) The general believes that the enemy would attack from the south.
That sentence is correct, but it provokes the question: why doesn't the enemy attach from the south?
This might also appear with an explanatory conditional:
4) The general believes that the enemy would attack from the south if it can cover all that ground in such a short time.
In other words, we are expecting the result if the condition is met, but overall, we are still doubtful that this condition will be met.

It's much harder to talk about what was hypothetical in the past. I guarantee that the GMAT will not be interested in testing that.

Once again, I cannot emphasize enough how much the habit of reading can help with dozens and dozens of questions of this sort. Once you develop intuition for all these words in context, much will become clear. I recommend that blog linked in my previous post.

Does all this make sense?
Mike
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