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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
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Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays up to 40 eggs a year in the nests of other birds, including warblers, vireos, flycatchers, and thrushes.

The pronoun ''their'' implies that the subject is ''plural'' in nature. Since (A) and (B) implies the presence of a singular subject, we can eliminate (A) and (B).

(C) female cowbirds use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including those of
- the pronoun ''those'' has two logical antecedents: ''birds'' and ''eggs''.
(D) female cowbirds lay up to 40 eggs a year in the nests of other birds, including - has no error. Hence, (D) is the right answer choice.
(E) up to 40 eggs a year are laid by female cowbirds in the nests of other birds, including
- since the clause preceding the underlined portion is a noun modifier, we need to have a noun immediately succeeding the underlined portion.
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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
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This question popped up on our Ask Me Anything About SC thread. Reposting our answer here, just in case it helps anybody.
VKat wrote:
Sir,

Could you please explain why option C is correct for following post-

Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays up to 40 eggs a year in the nests of other birds, including warblers, vireos, flycatchers, and thrushes.

(A) a female cowbird lays up to 40 eggs a year in the nests of other birds, including
(B) a female cowbird will use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including those of
(C) female cowbirds use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including those of
(D) female cowbirds lay up to 40 eggs a year in the nests of other birds, including
(E) up to 40 eggs a year are laid by female cowbirds in the nests of other birds, including

Check out this post and this follow-up post for explanations of why (B) and (C) can be eliminated.

Quote:
(A) Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays up to 40 eggs a year in the nests of other birds, including warblers, vireos, flycatchers, and thrushes.

In choice (A), the singular subject ("a female cowbird") doesn't match with the plural pronoun ("their") in the opening modifier, so we can eliminate this one right away.

Quote:
(E) up to 40 eggs a year are laid by female cowbirds in the nests of other birds, including

The problem with (E) is that the opening modifier seems to modify "up to 40 eggs a year" -- this suggests that "up to 40 eggs a year" are somehow "unable to build nests or care for their young," and of course that doesn't make any sense, unless these eggs are already breeding.

That's probably enough reason to go with (D) over (E), but another small vote against (E) is the placement of the prepositional phrase "in the nests of other birds": in (D), "in the nests of other birds" is clearly meant to tell us WHERE the female cowbirds lay the eggs. But in (E), "in the nests of other birds" seems to modify "female cowbirds" -- so do these female cowbirds LIVE in the nests of other birds? Are the female cowbirds actually laying up to 40 eggs a year in those nests or somewhere else? The meaning is less clear here.

That leaves (D) as the winner.

I hope that helps!
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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
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Hi AndrewN,

I hope you're doing fine.

This question caught my attention after receiving it my PM. Though, (D) is the correct choice here, and I do refute that, (C) doesn't look half bad.
Many experts, including Charles, have opined on the "ambiguity" surrounding the usage of "those" in (C), citing it can refer to "eggs". But, as per logic, "those" can refer only to "the nests". Pronoum ambiguity is an issue when one can construe multiple meaning through a sentence because of the placement of an "ambiguous" pronoun. But, here I believe, the second meaning is being forced to cause "pronoun ambiguity", for, per logic, no bird can lay eggs of an another bird in nature. So, "those" can refer only to "the nests" here.

(C) female cowbirds use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including the nests of warblers, etc.

Here, "including the nests of x,y,z" refers to "the nests of other birds" in the preceding clause, and the "including the nests of x,y,z" phrase adds information about the group of "different nests" that cowbirds use to lay eggs. And this meaning doesn't look bad to me.

What are your thoughts on this?
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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
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PyjamaScientist wrote:
Hi AndrewN,

I hope you're doing fine.

This question caught my attention after receiving it my PM. Though, (D) is the correct choice here, and I do refute that, (C) doesn't look half bad.
Many experts, including Charles, have opined on the "ambiguity" surrounding the usage of "those" in (C), citing it can refer to "eggs". But, as per logic, "those" can refer only to "the nests". Pronoum ambiguity is an issue when one can construe multiple meaning through a sentence because of the placement of an "ambiguous" pronoun. But, here I believe, the second meaning is being forced to cause "pronoun ambiguity", for, per logic, no bird can lay eggs of an another bird in nature. So, "those" can refer only to "the nests" here.

(C) female cowbirds use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including the nests of warblers, etc.

Here, "including the nests of x,y,z" refers to "the nests of other birds" in the preceding clause, and the "including the nests of x,y,z" phrase adds information about the group of "different nests" that cowbirds use to lay eggs. And this meaning doesn't look bad to me.

What are your thoughts on this?

Hello, PyjamaScientist. Have you looked at this earlier post of mine? In it, I discuss how even in a rearranged sentence in which those of was right next to the nests of other birds, I would still prefer (D). In short, the nests of other birds already makes it clear that including encompasses nests.

Furthermore, ambiguity of meaning does not always mean that there are two (or more) legitimate ways of interpreting something, just that it may take a moment to sort out what something refers to. On first read, going left to right, it is confusing to hit female cowbirds use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including those of, because we are not accustomed in writing to having to reach back over two plural nouns to land on the one that makes the most sense. A better composed sentence should put the reader in a position to do less work.

Thank you for thinking to ask.

- Andrew
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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
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JaydeepPatadiya wrote:
I got this correct as D seemed only the correct choice. But I am confused with comma + verb-ing modifier. The rule for comma + verb-iing modifier is that it modifies the entire preceding clause (to confirm this the subject of verb-ing modifier and the subject of the preceding clause must be same). Here verb-ing modifier modifies the preceding noun and not the preceding the clause. Hence, should not comma be eliminated?

I would really appreciate a response of someone in this regard to clear the doubt.


'including' is used as a preposition here, not verb-ing.
Check here: https://gmatclub.com/forum/unable-to-bu ... l#p2068259
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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
GMATNinja VeritasPrepKarishma egmat

In option (C), why can not those refer to nests?

How do I take including ? As a noun or as a modifier?
Is there any difference of placement of coma before including and
its absence that would lead to change of role it plays?

Is there any twist in intended meaning in (C)?

I was able to correctly strike off A and B because of paying attention to
their in non-underlined portion which must have a plural noun antecedent.

E has clear subject placement issue since after unlike... , the phrase after coma
must open with subject/ noun it is comparing.
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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
What is the role of 'including' in the choice D?

Sounds like it is an 'ing' modifying the previous clause. But as per the meaning, it should modify 'birds'.
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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
GMATNinja, what is the clause including warbles, vireos modifying? Is the use of comma correct?
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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
Hey Gagoosh,

The "including" clause modifies "other birds". What follows is then a list of other bird species that the cowbird might take care of. The first comma, before the word including, is there to offset that modifier, and the rest of the commas are there to indicate that you're dealing with a list :)
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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
dear LauraOrion, thank you for your reply.
my confusion was that since comma + verb-ing modifies the action of the main clause (being the adverbial modifier), why is this structure modifying the preceding noun?
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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
daagh wrote:
pikolo wrote

Quote:
Hello Daagh Sir,

I have 2 queries here

1. The word "including" is modifying the preceding clause - right? A few people on the thread commented it is modifying the nearest noun i.e.
- in Option C, "including" ----> year
- in option D, "including" ----> birds
2. How did you conclude that "those of" in option C is referring to "eggs" and not referring to "nests" ?






1. If you have a comma before including, then it will never modify the noun before.

2. C. female cowbirds use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including those of

Let's replace the pronoun with both nouns:

1. C. female cowbirds use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including the eggs of
2. female cowbirds use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including the nests of

Both choices are equally weird, the second being more bizarre



Hi,

I understand why C is incorrect but I want to know how choice D is correct. Here including cannot refer to birds as per the rules right? Please explain what including is modifying.
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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
Do the comma + ing modifier rules apply to '??ncluding' in this case?
In answer choice C, why is the use of 'including' incorrect?
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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
Hello experts,

I was wondering if you could help me with this one, I was between C and D.
In C doesn't "those of" modify nests? If not, why does it modify eggs? what I mean is.... how do we know whether it modifies eggs or nests?

In D if only it had something like "including the nests of warblers,vireos etc." plain including and the name of the others birds doesn't sound correct for me
Any help is appreciated because I'm confused.
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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
Hi,

I usually tend to get confused on sentences which offer a choice between (including that/those of) and (including).

Would anyone care to explain why D is the most appropriate answer choice?

(C) female cowbirds use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including those of
(D) female cowbirds lay up to 40 eggs a year in the nests of other birds, including

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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
there is no comparison issue here, right?

Because at first, it sounds like they are comparing NESTS of other birds with the other birds, which is illogical. But after re reading the sentence, i do not see any comparison triggers such as like/than/and.

For example if i say: "During recess time, I clean up the desks of my classmates, including Adam, Brad, and Charlie."

Is the sentence above correct? Because to me, it sounds like the list in the end should be "Adam's, Brad's, and Charlie's" My logic is the parallelism issue here that the middle part of the sentence is talking about "desks of my classmates" so the last part should also refer to their desks and not themselves?

Can someone help my understand better please? Thanks.

I'm really guessing that there's no parallelism issue here, I just need someone to confirm.

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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
(D) female cowbirds lay up to 40 eggs a year in the nests of other birds, including

In the answer choice D we can see a comma before the word "including" which modifies immediately preceding noun "other birds", as we know we do not need a comma for verb-ing modifier which modifies immediately preceding noun. Do we really need a comma before including?
For example, Marry noticed a beautiful bouquet releasing a pleasant aroma.
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Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u [#permalink]
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Hi cathygeorge123, this indeed creates confusion.

The thing is that including is not really a present participle, but actually a preposition. Hence, the general rules of participial phrases do not apply to including.

including can modify the Noun or Noun-Phrase immediately before the word including.

An officially correct sentence:

A study by the Ocean Wildlife Campaign urged states to undertake a number of remedies to reverse a decline in the shark population, including establishing size limits for shark catches, closing state waters for shark fishing during pupping season, and requiring commercial fishers to have federal shark permits.

Notice how including modifies a rather far-away noun remedies.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana has a special note on the usage of including. Have attached the corresponding section of the book, for your reference.
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Including.pdf [10.85 KiB]
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