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Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier

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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spac [#permalink]

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09 Oct 2012, 03:53
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[quote="SOURH7WK"]Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which carried sufficient power in fuel cells and batteries, a permanently orbiting space station will have to generate its own electricity.

A. the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which carried sufficient power in fuel cells
and batteries
B. the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, with sufficient enough power in fuel cells and batteries for their
short flights
C. the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which enabled them to carry sufficient
enough power in fuel cells and batteries
D. the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which were capable of carrying sufficient power in fuel cells
and batteries for their short flights
E. the flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, whose shortness allowed them to carry sufficient
power in fuel cells and batteries

Unlike X, Y is the correct construction, where X and Y are logical and parallel.

A. space station is compared with flights of shuttles. Apples to oranges
B. sufficient enough is a heavily redundant construction.
C. Same error as A

D. Correct.E. Same error as A and C.
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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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21 Oct 2012, 19:06
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A,C,E are out. They compare flights of some type with the type itself.

We are left with B and D.
B is wrong for two reasons. 1-> sufficient enough is redundant. 2-> The words following the comma describe the spacecraft.. spacecraft with X. So the use of their is wrong. The phrase belongs to the noun that is singular.

D is the perfect answer. Unlike X and Y, which do something, Z has to do something else.

On a separate note, did anyone notice the usage of "will have" for singular noun? A nice remainder of a lesson that we all learnt

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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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18 Jan 2013, 09:05
Apart from 'sufficient enough' which is redundant, is there any other issue in B?
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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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18 Jan 2013, 10:24
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Sachin9 wrote:
Apart from 'sufficient enough' which is redundant, is there any other issue in B?

yea.

use of 'with' is unwarranted. You should use 'which' when you are presenting a non-essential information.

'with' is generally used when you want to use the modifier as well or show the modifier plays an important role.

see this question: the-javelin-has-a-sharp-point-which-is-more-obviously-137306.html

look at option B and E.
E means, because the javelin has a sharp point it is dangerous.
B means javelin has a sharp point AND it is dangerous. (states 2 facts about javelin without connecting them)

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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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18 Jan 2013, 20:27
jumsumtak wrote:
Sachin9 wrote:
Apart from 'sufficient enough' which is redundant, is there any other issue in B?

yea.

use of 'with' is unwarranted. You should use 'which' when you are presenting a non-essential information.

'with' is generally used when you want to use the modifier as well or show the modifier plays an important role.

see this question: the-javelin-has-a-sharp-point-which-is-more-obviously-137306.html

look at option B and E.
E means, because the javelin has a sharp point it is dangerous.
B means javelin has a sharp point AND it is dangerous. (states 2 facts about javelin without connecting them)

Thanks mate, guess the following will the following be correct then..

the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which have sufficient enough power in fuel cells and batteries for their short flights

Could you also let us know the right usages of with apart from the you mentioned..
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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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19 Jan 2013, 00:29
Sachin9 wrote:
jumsumtak wrote:
Sachin9 wrote:
Apart from 'sufficient enough' which is redundant, is there any other issue in B?

yea.

use of 'with' is unwarranted. You should use 'which' when you are presenting a non-essential information.

'with' is generally used when you want to use the modifier as well or show the modifier plays an important role.

see this question: the-javelin-has-a-sharp-point-which-is-more-obviously-137306.html

look at option B and E.
E means, because the javelin has a sharp point it is dangerous.
B means javelin has a sharp point AND it is dangerous. (states 2 facts about javelin without connecting them)

Thanks mate, guess the following will the following be correct then..

the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which have sufficient enough power in fuel cells and batteries for their short flights

Could you also let us know the right usages of with apart from the you mentioned..

'with' is pretty versatile. It can modify the preceding noun or the whole clause. It is important to see the context in which it is used. (like we discussed above)

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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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05 May 2013, 02:45
Excuse my obvious question. I want to make sure I understand which statements.

In the correct answer choice sentence, "Unlike the flights of the shuttle and earlier aircraft, which were capable of carrying..."

"Which" refers to "flights of the shuttle and earlier aircraft," or "shuttle and earlier aircraft," or "earlier aircraft?"

Basically, if a question asks, "Unlike x and y, which blah blah blah," can I understand that which refers to "x and y" rather than just "y?"

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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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05 May 2013, 04:22
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Isn’t this odd? Apart from that A, C and E are out because of a devilish comparison, and B is out due to a blatant redundancy error, we have still not reached the right choice. The only remaining choice D has errors that I would reckon are more serious than the redundancy of B. How?

D says ‘which were capable of’, using the past tense. This is a factual error. The shuttle and earlier spacecraft were not only capable in the past, but also today and may be ever. We must use a present tense to focus on this generalization of this aspect, rather than a past tense. Please note that the main clause itself is in the future perfect tense; so, use of past tense is not justified.

Secondly, it would be better to say actively that the shuttles and spacecrafts could carry sufficient power rather passively as ‘capable of carrying’.
Which error should we pardon: redundancy or wrong tense?
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Last edited by daagh on 23 Jun 2014, 18:17, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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05 May 2013, 04:28

D says ‘which were capable of’, using the past tense. This is a factual error. The shuttle and spacecrafts were not only capable in the past, but also today and may be ever. We must use a present tense to focus on this generalization of this aspect, rather than a past tense. Please note that the main clause itself is in the future perfect tense; so, use of past tense is not justified.

I'd argue that using the past tense is correct here. The emphasis is on "earlier spacecraft," so not "spacecraft," so it's proper to refer to earlier spacecraft's capabilities in the past.

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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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05 May 2013, 04:44
Acceptable of course, if only the shuttles are not there any more; this doubt arises because, a permanently placed space body is being compared with an on and off counterpart. This is questionable. Somehow, I feel the comparison is vulnerable. But if it is acceptable to GMAT, then why bother? We will happily take D as the choice; learning in the process, a few basic grammar lessons.
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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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17 Jun 2014, 21:39
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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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23 Jun 2014, 12:24
daagh wrote:
Isn’t this odd? Apart from that A, C and E are out because of a devilish comparison, and B is out due to a blatant redundancy error, we have still not reached the right choice. The only remaining choice D has errors that I would reckon are more serious that the redundancy of B. How?

D says ‘which were capable of’, using the past tense. This is a factual error. The shuttle and earlier spacecraft were not only capable in the past, but also today and may be ever. We must use a present tense to focus on this generalization of this aspect, rather than a past tense. Please note that the main clause itself is in the future perfect tense; so, use of past tense is not justified.

Secondly, it would be better to say actively that the shuttles and spacecrafts could carry sufficient power rather passively as ‘capable of carrying’.
Which error should we pardon: redundancy or wrong tense?

Experts,

Can anyone clarify the quoted doubt?
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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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24 Jun 2014, 14:47
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TGC wrote:
daagh wrote:
Isn’t this odd? Apart from that A, C and E are out because of a devilish comparison, and B is out due to a blatant redundancy error, we have still not reached the right choice. The only remaining choice D has errors that I would reckon are more serious that the redundancy of B. How?

D says ‘which were capable of’, using the past tense. This is a factual error. The shuttle and earlier spacecraft were not only capable in the past, but also today and may be ever. We must use a present tense to focus on this generalization of this aspect, rather than a past tense. Please note that the main clause itself is in the future perfect tense; so, use of past tense is not justified.

Secondly, it would be better to say actively that the shuttles and spacecrafts could carry sufficient power rather passively as ‘capable of carrying’.
Which error should we pardon: redundancy or wrong tense?

Experts,

Can anyone clarify the quoted doubt?

Sure...first of all be careful with how you evaluate tense. There are many times when you have to maintain a certain tense by force (due to parallelism and perfect tenses), but tense shifts in themselves are not incorrect. They are only incorrect if they lead to improper/illogical meaning. There is nothing illogical in this sentence that creates a comparison between the historical capabilities of shuttles/space craft and the future needs of the space station.

As for the active vs. passive construction, the GMAT shows no preference for active construction. Passive construction is grammatically correct and should not be used for eliminations.

KW
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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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07 Jul 2014, 13:49
can someone explain with & ,with as a modifier?
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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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18 Jul 2014, 04:13
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SOURH7WK wrote:
Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which carried sufficient power in fuel cells and batteries, a permanently orbiting space station will have to generate its own electricity.

A. the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which carried sufficient power in fuel cells
and batteries
B. the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, with sufficient enough power in fuel cells and batteries for their
short flights
C. the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which enabled them to carry sufficient
enough power in fuel cells and batteries
D. the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which were capable of carrying sufficient power in fuel cells
and batteries for their short flights
E. the flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, whose shortness allowed them to carry sufficient
power in fuel cells and batteries

Edit: Posted Full question and removed the image file.

Some people argue that in option B the use of modifier "with..." is incorrect. Experts, please help me to explain why the use of modifier "with...." in option B is incorrect!! Thank you so much!
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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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18 Jul 2014, 04:33
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Quote:
Some people argue that in option B the use of modifier "with..." is incorrect.

NO !! this is not the case
this construction is not outright wrong but yes there is this construction "sufficient enough power" which makes it wrong .this expression is redundant ----->"sufficient" and "enough" implies the same meaning

does it help?

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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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18 Jul 2014, 06:06
1
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Quote:
Some people argue that in option B the use of modifier "with..." is incorrect.

NO !! this is not the case
this construction is not outright wrong but yes there is this construction "sufficient enough power" which makes it wrong .this expression is redundant ----->"sufficient" and "enough" implies the same meaning

does it help?

Yes, indeed, it does! Thank you, Aditya8062!
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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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18 Jul 2014, 10:38
amenon55 wrote:
can someone explain with & ,with as a modifier?

Hmmm...not sure I understand your request. Can you post again with a little more detail around what you need clarification about?

KW
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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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06 Oct 2014, 07:54
Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which carried sufficient power in fuel cells and batteries, a permanently orbiting space station will have to generate its own electricity.

The problem here is comparison. short flight is compared with a permanently orbiting space station. A,C and E choices are out due to this reason
Now we are left with choices B and D.

choice B - Use of With is unwarranted. Which clause should be used here and Sufficient & enough are redundant

A. the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which carried sufficient power in fuel cells and batteries
B. the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, with sufficient enough power in fuel cells and batteries for their short flights
C. the short flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which enabled them to carry sufficient enough power in fuel cells and batteries
D. the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, which were capable of carrying sufficient power in fuel cells and batteries for their short flights
E. the flights of the shuttle and earlier spacecraft, whose shortness allowed them to carry sufficient power in fuel cells and batteries
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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier [#permalink]

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18 Nov 2014, 17:26

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Re: Unlike the short flights of the shuttle and earlier   [#permalink] 18 Nov 2014, 17:26

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