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Verbal Chat with a Tutor every Wednesday at 7:30 AM PST/8 PM IST

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New post 04 Jun 2017, 23:51
Suggested topic : CR - Evaluate the Argument.

Recommend question to discuss. LINK

A certain cultivated herb is one of a group of closely related plants that thrive in soil with high concentrations of metals that are toxic to most other plants. Agronomists studying the growth of this herb have discovered that it produces large amounts of histidine, an amino acid that, in test - tube solutions, renders these metals chemically inert. Hence, the herb's high histidine production must be the key feature that allows it to grow in metal-rich soils.

In evaluating the argument, it would be most important to determine which of the following?

(A) Whether the herb can thrive in soil that does not have high concentrations of the toxic metals.
(B) Whether others of the closely related group of plants also produce histidine in large quantities.
(C) Whether the herb's high level of histidine production is associated with an unusually low level of production of some other amino acid
(D) Whether growing the herb in soil with high concentrations of the metals will, over time, reduce their concentrations in the soil.
(E) whether the concentration of histidine in the growing herb declines as the plant approaches maturity
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New post 05 Jun 2017, 11:06
Nice ideas, warriorguy and hazelnut! "Being" is a leading candidate for the very next Topic of the Week -- so please stay tuned.

And please keep the suggestions coming, everybody! Always happy to take requests. :)
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New post Updated on: 21 Jun 2017, 19:52
My timings don't match with the verbal chat :(

Thanks for the MoM Vyshak.

GMATNinja, The example quoted to explain the 'touch' rule - is that accurate? Based on my understanding, SoB is a person and we cannot use 'that' to refer back to a person unless you are referring to a female dog :P :lol: :lol: :lol:

Originally posted by warriorguy on 21 Jun 2017, 19:22.
Last edited by bb on 21 Jun 2017, 19:52, edited 1 time in total.
Removed long quote
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New post 23 Jun 2017, 18:52
warriorguy wrote:
My timings don't match with the verbal chat

Noooooooooooooo! :(

warriorguy wrote:
GMATNinja, The example quoted to explain the 'touch' rule - is that accurate? Based on my understanding, SoB is a person and we cannot use 'that' to refer back to a person unless you are referring to a female dog

So this is more interesting than I thought it would be. warriorguy, you sent me down a crazy sinkhole on this!

According to "normal" rules of English grammar and usage, "that" can refer to either people or things. (Every style guide on my shelf agrees on this point. And yes, I'm a dork with multiple style guides on my bookshelf.) But the interesting thing is that I couldn't really find GMAT questions that use "that" to refer to people. In theory, it's fine, but apparently it's not something that the GMAT really does -- at least not that I could find.

The only real exception was a wrong answer choice on this thread: https://gmatclub.com/forum/authoritativ ... 81108.html. But the OG explanation doesn't explicitly say that "that" is wrong -- (B) is a mess for other reasons.

If it helps, though, my point about SoB would still be valid if we change "that" to "who." :P
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New post 23 Jun 2017, 23:40
Thanks GMATNinja. I have trained my mind as per GMAT rules. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: I forgot 'that' can refer to people under standard usage.

I'll definitely attend the chat this Wednesday. :twisted:

Suggestions for the topic:

Evaluate sub-type under CR.
Parsing through extremely long (sometimes dense) sentences under time constraint :P
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New post 05 Jul 2017, 02:06
May I know the topic of Verbal chat today? Thank you. :)
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New post 05 Jul 2017, 08:35
Thanks for your quick action, Vyshak

+1 kudos to you.
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New post 06 Jul 2017, 12:18
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Vyshak wrote:
Chat Transcript - 5/24/2017

Q: Can you point out the difference between 'due to' and 'because of' ?
A: Here, I have two examples:
1) The picnic was canceled due to rain.
2) Souvik’s incredible GMAT score was due to his hard work.
Basically, you’ll want to ask yourself: what does the "due to _____" phrase modify?
1) The picnic was canceled due to rain. --> what does "due to rain" modify?
"due to rain" doesn’t modify "rain", yes -- it modifies the cancelation.
Trouble is, the word "cancelation" doesn’t appear -- it just says "was canceled". That’s a verb.
And "due to" can’t modify a verb or verb phrase -- just nouns


Q: I read on egmat that always replace due to by 'caused by'. If it sounds right then fine. Is this approach wrong?
A: Yeah, but I’ve found that a lot of people tell me that "The picnic was canceled caused by rain" sounds OK, and "Souvik’s success on the GMAT was caused by his hard work" sound bad. So it doesn’t work for everybody.

Q: So 'Souvik’s success on the GMAT was because of his hard work' is not correct?
A: Souvik’s incredible GMAT score was due to his hard work. --> what does "due to his hard work" modify?

Q: Does it modify Souvik’s action or work?
A: No, "due to his hard work" does not modify "work." The "due to _____" phrase indicates some sort of causality. You want to ask yourself what is affected by the "due to ____" phrase. In this case, it’s the GMAT score that’s "caused" or "affected by" or "due to" Souvik’s hard work.
Bottom line on "due to": the phrase "due to _______" must logically modify a noun, not a verb phrase.


Q: One confusion. If we state a reason for something, we use because of. So, in this question can’t we say the reason for his score is his hard work. I agree that His score is caused by his hard work but reasoning concept has confused me now.
A: The weird thing about "due to" and "because of" (and "caused by", I suppose) is that they all mean basically the same thing. But the distinction is grammatical. The only thing that the GMAT really seems to test is the fact that "due to" can NEVER modify a verb or a verb phrase -- just a noun.
This sentence "makes sense", but it’s wrong: "The game was postponed due to rain."


Q: I am still not clear. How to identify due to is modifying noun or verb phrase?
A: "due to rain" -- what happens "due to rain"? What is being modified by "due to rain"? You wouldn’t say that "the game is due to rain." The thing that "due to rain" modifies is "was postponed" -- it’s the postponing that happens "due to rain." And that can’t work: "was postponed" is a verb phrase. That’s really all. You’ll never see anything other than a noun after "due to" anyway, so that’s a non-issue. And I wouldn’t overthink "because of" -- I’ve never seen an official GMAT question that requires you to think too deeply about "because of", at least not that I can think of.



Hello GMATNinja,

One query regarding the usage: Is below one correct?

From the helicopter, I saw a 6-mile long traffic jam due to the overturned truck.
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New post 07 Jul 2017, 11:24
Quote:
Hello GMATNinja,

One query regarding the usage: Is below one correct?

From the helicopter, I saw a 6-mile long traffic jam due to the overturned truck.

This doesn't quite look right to me. Structurally, the sentence seems to be trying to say that "I saw" the traffic jam "due to the overturned truck" -- so "due to the overturned truck" seems to modify the verb phrase "I saw." And that's both grammatically wrong ("due to ____" can only modify a noun, not a verb phrase) and nonsensical.

I guess you could argue that "due to the overturned truck" is trying to modify the traffic jam, but it's hard to imagine why you'd construct the sentence that way. Why not make that modifier much more explicit? "From the helicopter, I saw a 6-mile long traffic jam that was caused by the overturned truck." That way, there's zero doubt that the phrase about the overturned truck is modifying the traffic jam.

This would be OK, though: "The horrific, 6-mile long traffic jam was due to the overturned truck."

I hope this helps!
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New post 07 Jul 2017, 11:31
GMATNinja wrote:
Quote:
Hello GMATNinja,

One query regarding the usage: Is below one correct?

From the helicopter, I saw a 6-mile long traffic jam due to the overturned truck.

This doesn't quite look right to me. Structurally, the sentence seems to be trying to say that "I saw" the traffic jam "due to the overturned truck" -- so "due to the overturned truck" seems to modify the verb phrase "I saw." And that's both grammatically wrong ("due to ____" can only modify a noun, not a verb phrase) and nonsensical.

I guess you could argue that "due to the overturned truck" is trying to modify the traffic jam, but it's hard to imagine why you'd construct the sentence that way. Why not make that modifier much more explicit? "From the helicopter, I saw a 6-mile long traffic jam that was caused by the overturned truck." That way, there's zero doubt that the phrase about the overturned truck is modifying the traffic jam.

This would be OK, though: "The horrific, 6-mile long traffic jam was due to the overturned truck."

I hope this helps!



Thanks for the clarification GMATNinja.

I had the same thought but Ron mentioned the sentence as correct in one of his video series ("Thursdays with Ron").
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New post 17 Jul 2017, 23:36
Vyshak wrote:

Q: My favorite restaurant is in Brooklyn that serves delicious food.
Here in Brooklyn is a prepositional phrase and since that can not modify Brooklyn it make perfect
sense to jump over prepositional phrase and eventually modify restaurant which is logically and grammatically sound.
why did it make sense to jump over prepositions in the OG example whereas in Brooklyn example it did not


A: There was a verb ’is’ - It cant jump over verbs. "that" and "which" modifiers can "jump" prepositional phrases if it’s absolutely necessary for the meaning of the sentence, but they can’t jump verbs... ever.



Hi GMATNinja,

In one of the chat sessions it was mentioned that 'that' or 'which' will never jump over verbs. But strangely in the below OG2018 SC question 'which' jumps over the verb 'builds' in the correct answer choice. Can you please take this question on in the chat session tomorrow.

Gusty westerly winds will continue to usher in a seasonably cool air mass into the region, as a broad area of high pressure will build and bring fair and dry weather for several days.

A. to usher in a seasonably cool air mass into the region, as a broad area of high pressure will build and
B. ushering in a seasonably cool air mass into the region and a broad area of high pressure will build that
C. to usher in a seasonably cool air mass to the region, a broad area of high pressure building, and
D. ushering a seasonably cool air mass in the region, with a broad area of high pressure building and
E. to usher a seasonably cool air mass into the region while a broad area of high pressure builds, which will
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New post 20 Jul 2017, 03:50
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GMATNinja wrote:

Gusty westerly winds will continue to usher in a seasonably cool air mass into the region, as a broad area of high pressure will build and bring fair and dry weather for several days.

A. to usher in a seasonably cool air mass into the region, as a broad area of high pressure will build and
B. ushering in a seasonably cool air mass into the region and a broad area of high pressure will build that
C. to usher in a seasonably cool air mass to the region, a broad area of high pressure building, and
D. ushering a seasonably cool air mass in the region, with a broad area of high pressure building and
E. to usher a seasonably cool air mass into the region while a broad area of high pressure builds, which will

I love it when the GMAT changes its mind about stuff! No problem, we'll cover this tomorrow. See you then!



Hello GMATNinja,

Apologies to dig up this question again. Can you please explain a bit more on the parallelism issue (in option A.)?
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New post Updated on: 13 Sep 2017, 15:37
souvik101990 GMATNinja bb

I hope we are starting 'season 2' of learnings with chat and youtube videos sooner.
Missing nuggets of wisdom from experts and active participation of community members.

WR,
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New post 11 Sep 2017, 05:41
Coming soon, adkikani! I'm back in the office today for the first time in about a month, and we're just working out which days and times will work best for the return of the verbal chats and YouTube live webinars. Stay tuned!
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New post 16 Sep 2017, 18:40
How to break the bottleneck and improve your score greatly?
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New post 16 Sep 2017, 20:29
septwibowo wrote:
Hi guys, after finding this wonderful chat with GMATNinja , I decided to collect all the information and arranged them based on specific topics.

Just to help those who overwhelmed with a lot of information here!

(I counted 53 pages of word document only from chat transcript between May 17-August 8 :oops: :oops: )

This summary only covers SC part : let me know if summary in CR and RC also needed.

God bless!

PS : big thanks to Vyshak who wrote down the chat transcript, so those who could not join still can study.

Holy crap, this is absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for compiling this, septwibowo!!

I can't wait to get back to these chats this week. See you all on Wednesday!
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Re: Verbal Chat with a Tutor every Wednesday at 7:30 AM PST/8 PM IST  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Sep 2017, 22:29
GMATNinja wrote:
septwibowo wrote:
Hi guys, after finding this wonderful chat with GMATNinja , I decided to collect all the information and arranged them based on specific topics.

Just to help those who overwhelmed with a lot of information here!

(I counted 53 pages of word document only from chat transcript between May 17-August 8 :oops: :oops: )

This summary only covers SC part : let me know if summary in CR and RC also needed.

God bless!

PS : big thanks to Vyshak who wrote down the chat transcript, so those who could not join still can study.

Holy crap, this is absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for compiling this, septwibowo!!

I can't wait to get back to these chats this week. See you all on Wednesday!


The stack of questions is already full. Please snack on some protein before the class. :grin:
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New post 04 Oct 2017, 08:00
How about a topic of Tenses and Comparison for the next week?
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New post 05 Oct 2017, 20:51
NandishSS wrote:
How about a topic of Tenses and Comparison for the next week?

Both would make fantastic YouTube webinars -- we'll add those into our plans. :)
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New post 05 Oct 2017, 21:20
GMATNinja wrote:
NandishSS wrote:
How about a topic of Tenses and Comparison for the next week?

Both would make fantastic YouTube webinars -- we'll add those into our plans. :)


That is really Awesome :-)
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