GMAT Club Forum
https://gmatclub.com:443/forum/

Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u
https://gmatclub.com/forum/unable-to-build-nests-or-care-for-their-young-a-female-cowbird-lays-u-242639-60.html
Page 4 of 4

Author:  KarishmaB [ 15 Nov 2021, 21:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u

tkorzhan1995 wrote:
GMATNinja, Bunuel, can you please help to clarify why including cannot be referred to the nests?
VeritasKarishma, thank you for providing some clarification on this. I am still not clear whether verb-ing should be used essential words. eggs is an essential word-->> verb-ing should be used to modify it, not nests.


The use of "including" here is similar to "for example" or "to name a few".

So it will logically give examples of whatever is closest to it.

Consider this sentence:
The managers need all your documents, including ...

What will you give after "including"? Will you give "your passport and your driving license" or will you give "the sales manager and the finance manager"? I am sure that only this makes sense to you:
The managers need all your documents, including your passport and your driving license.


If you want to specify some particular managers, you will need place "including" after managers.
The managers, including the sales manager and the finance manager, need all your documents.

tkorzhan1995

Author:  ExpertsGlobal5 [ 17 Nov 2021, 04:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u

tkorzhan1995 wrote:
GMATNinja, Bunuel, can you please help to clarify why including cannot be referred to the nests?
VeritasKarishma, thank you for providing some clarification on this. I am still not clear whether verb-ing should be used essential words. eggs is an essential word-->> verb-ing should be used to modify it, not nests.


Hello tkorzhan1995,

We hope this finds you well.

Having gone through the question and your query, we believe we can resolve your doubts.

As VeritasKarishma wrote, here "including" is used to introduce the examples of the birds "warblers, vireos, flycatchers, and thrushes", and thus must logically refer back to "birds" rather than to "nests".

Further, it cannot be used to modify "eggs", as "eggs" here refers to the cowbird's eggs; modifying "eggs" with "including warblers, vireos, flycatchers, and thrushes" would illogically imply that warblers, vireos, flycatchers, and thrushes are examples of cowbird eggs. There is no rule that limits which nouns in a sentence can be modified by a present participle ("verb+ing"). So long as the meaning it conveys is correct, a present participle can modify any noun in a sentence.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
Experts' Global Team

Author:  GmatTutorKnight [ 26 Nov 2021, 23:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u

Here, knowing what INCLUDING is referring to is key.

(D) "...the nests of other birds, including warblers, vireos, flycatchers, and thrushes."

This sort of creates a list of the OTHER BIRDS. You can make the argument that the NOUN PHRASE is referring to nests and therefore makes the sentence ambiguous - but clearly (D is the answer) the GMAT is not SO strict, since the OTHER BIRDS (the closest noun to the comma) can also be considered a legitimate stand alone noun as well.

Basically, if you have a noun phrase that has a "noun in the second half" - both are fair game.

Author:  Crytiocanalyst [ 22 Jan 2022, 22:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u

AbdurRakib wrote:
Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays up to 40 eggs a year in the nests of other birds, including warblers, vireos, flycatchers, and thrushes.


(A) a female cowbird lays up to 40 eggs a year in the nests of other birds, including
'lays' isn't the correct usage since there is only one way of laying therefore out

(B) a female cowbird will use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including those of
'will' usage is wrong tense since we are not absolutely sure whether this might happen , moreover surveys are based on past incidents therefore one reason to eleminate , in addition it gives the meaning as though the eggs of other birds are laid , absurd reasoning therefore out

(C) female cowbirds use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including those of
Similar meaning issue as B

(D) female cowbirds lay up to 40 eggs a year in the nests of other birds, including
The meaning along with the verb tense is perfect therefore let us hang on to it

(E) up to 40 eggs a year are laid by female cowbirds in the nests of other birds, including
'are' laid is present tense which gives us a reasoning as though the birds are laying the eggs right now which is not the case therefore out


THerefore IMO D

Author:  PyjamaScientist [ 04 Jul 2022, 05:20 ]
Post subject:  Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u

Hi AndrewN,

I hope you're doing fine.

This question caught my attention after receiving it my PM. Though, (D) is the correct choice here, and I do refute that, (C) doesn't look half bad.
Many experts, including Charles, have opined on the "ambiguity" surrounding the usage of "those" in (C), citing it can refer to "eggs". But, as per logic, "those" can refer only to "the nests". Pronoum ambiguity is an issue when one can construe multiple meaning through a sentence because of the placement of an "ambiguous" pronoun. But, here I believe, the second meaning is being forced to cause "pronoun ambiguity", for, per logic, no bird can lay eggs of an another bird in nature. So, "those" can refer only to "the nests" here.

(C) female cowbirds use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including the nests of warblers, etc.

Here, "including the nests of x,y,z" refers to "the nests of other birds" in the preceding clause, and the "including the nests of x,y,z" phrase adds information about the group of "different nests" that cowbirds use to lay eggs. And this meaning doesn't look bad to me.

What are your thoughts on this?

Author:  AndrewN [ 04 Jul 2022, 07:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u

PyjamaScientist wrote:
Hi AndrewN,

I hope you're doing fine.

This question caught my attention after receiving it my PM. Though, (D) is the correct choice here, and I do refute that, (C) doesn't look half bad.
Many experts, including Charles, have opined on the "ambiguity" surrounding the usage of "those" in (C), citing it can refer to "eggs". But, as per logic, "those" can refer only to "the nests". Pronoum ambiguity is an issue when one can construe multiple meaning through a sentence because of the placement of an "ambiguous" pronoun. But, here I believe, the second meaning is being forced to cause "pronoun ambiguity", for, per logic, no bird can lay eggs of an another bird in nature. So, "those" can refer only to "the nests" here.

(C) female cowbirds use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including the nests of warblers, etc.

Here, "including the nests of x,y,z" refers to "the nests of other birds" in the preceding clause, and the "including the nests of x,y,z" phrase adds information about the group of "different nests" that cowbirds use to lay eggs. And this meaning doesn't look bad to me.

What are your thoughts on this?

Hello, PyjamaScientist. Have you looked at this earlier post of mine? In it, I discuss how even in a rearranged sentence in which those of was right next to the nests of other birds, I would still prefer (D). In short, the nests of other birds already makes it clear that including encompasses nests.

Furthermore, ambiguity of meaning does not always mean that there are two (or more) legitimate ways of interpreting something, just that it may take a moment to sort out what something refers to. On first read, going left to right, it is confusing to hit female cowbirds use the nests of other birds to lay up to 40 eggs a year, including those of, because we are not accustomed in writing to having to reach back over two plural nouns to land on the one that makes the most sense. A better composed sentence should put the reader in a position to do less work.

Thank you for thinking to ask.

- Andrew

Author:  amirezzaee [ 11 Oct 2022, 15:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u

Hi experts!

On option D, shouldn't there be a "those of" before "including", since it's referring to the nests of those birds and not the actual birds? is ellipsis at play here?

Author:  GMATNinja [ 18 Oct 2022, 06:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u

amirezzaee wrote:
Hi experts!

On option D, shouldn't there be a "those of" before "including", since it's referring to the nests of those birds and not the actual birds? is ellipsis at play here?

We attempted to address this question earlier in the thread: https://gmatclub.com/forum/unable-to-bu ... l#p2376819. Let us know if that doesn't help!

Author:  JaydeepPatadiya [ 22 Nov 2022, 22:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u

I got this correct as D seemed only the correct choice. But I am confused with comma + verb-ing modifier. The rule for comma + verb-iing modifier is that it modifies the entire preceding clause (to confirm this the subject of verb-ing modifier and the subject of the preceding clause must be same). Here verb-ing modifier modifies the preceding noun and not the preceding the clause. Hence, should not comma be eliminated?

I would really appreciate a response of someone in this regard to clear the doubt.

Author:  KarishmaB [ 22 Nov 2022, 23:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Unable to build nests or care for their young, a female cowbird lays u

JaydeepPatadiya wrote:
I got this correct as D seemed only the correct choice. But I am confused with comma + verb-ing modifier. The rule for comma + verb-iing modifier is that it modifies the entire preceding clause (to confirm this the subject of verb-ing modifier and the subject of the preceding clause must be same). Here verb-ing modifier modifies the preceding noun and not the preceding the clause. Hence, should not comma be eliminated?

I would really appreciate a response of someone in this regard to clear the doubt.


'including' is used as a preposition here, not verb-ing.
Check here: https://gmatclub.com/forum/unable-to-bu ... l#p2068259

Page 4 of 4 All times are UTC - 8 hours
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/