Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop

Hello rocko911,

I will be glad to help you out with this one.


Following is the expanded version of the original sentence (the correct answer choice):


Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels (or not) or (whether they will) stop doing business with us altogether (or not) depends on whether the changes that their management has proposed will be fully implemented (or not).


So you see, or not has NOT been used in the sentence for any instance of whether. It is so because usage of or not along with whether is considered wordy on GMAT SC.

Conjunction or has been used to present either of the two situation:

1. Production will be scaled back or not
2. The business will stop altogether or not


Hope this helps.
Thanks.
Shraddha
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There are two juicy decision points here. First, we have a choice between "if" and "whether" in the second clause of the sentence:

• "If" sets off a conditional statement. "If Tim forgets to feed to feed his children, the poor kids will forget not to scream incessantly for several hours."
• "Whether" indicates a choice between options: "Because the household food supplies were extremely limited, Tim couldn't decide whether to feed his children or to feed his parakeet." (Tim's parakeet loves fruit leather.)

Both (B) and (D) incorrectly use "if" to indicate options in the second clause: the changes might be implemented, or not. (Notice that the "or not" is implied in (D).) In this case, "whether" is correct, so (B) and (D) are out.

Next, (C) and (E) contain the parallel marker, "either." Here's the relevant portion of (C):

"...either scaling back their orders in the future to pre-2003 levels, or their outright termination."

"Scaling" is not parallel" to "their outright termination, so (C) is gone. And here's the relevant portion of (E):

"...either scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels, or they."

"Scale" isn't parallel to "they" so we can get rid of (E).

That leaves us with (A), which is our answer. Neat.

I hope that helps!
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The issue here is whether they will do this or that. Therefore, a dilemma is involved and an answer to the dilemma is required. The correct diction for this expression is indeed whether or as Warriorguy correctly pointed out. If is used when you want to say, if this happens the other thing will happen. This means that if A happens then B will certainly happen. However, in the given context, it is not clear as to what will happen, if the proposed changes are fully implemented. Whether they will scale back or totally terminate is not made clear by using the conditional. That is why this goes better with the use of the ‘weather – or’ template
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Excellent question! Typically, when you see a parallel marker such as "or" you want to see what comes after the marker and then work backwards to see if you can find a word or phrase that plays the same role (more on parallelism and meaning in this video). Let's take another look at the relevant portion of (A):

"Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop doing business with us..."

The first thing to note is what follows "or." "Stop" is a verb. Now you want to work backwards to see if you can find another verb that "stop" can be parallel to. "Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop doing business with us..." Sure enough, there's "scale." So we have a parallel construction.

Next, you'd evaluate whether those actions are logically parallel; it turns out that this construction makes perfect sense. Option 1: scale back orders; option 2: stop doing business. So (A) is fine.

Just be aware that if you have two parallel verb phrases, for example, it doesn't have to be the case that every single component of those phrases is exactly the same. Parallelism is about function and logic, not hunting for identical constructions.

I hope that helps!
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A is the correct answer because of the given reasons !!

Hi rocko911 and raffamaiden

My two cents:

1. The question does not seem very GMAT like. The reason I say this is that GMAT questions don't usually have correct answers that have pronouns such as "they" and "us" without actual nouns that such pronouns refer to. Also, I am not a 100% happy with how the correct answer is constructed - particularly the latter part (again - could be wrong here). However, to keep the discussion pertinent to the thread, I will comment on some of the questions asked.

2. For rocko911 : Meaning wise, the first whether scenario has two distinct outcomes related with it. So, the two outcomes are:

a. Company may scale back
b. Company may stop doing business with the concerned party altogether

As you can see, the second outcome (outcome b) is very specific in nature. You cannot understand/or think about this outcome unless it is specifically expressed.

However, with the second use of whether, the second outcome is more or less understood. So, what are the two outcomes for the second whether:

a. changes are fully implemented
b. changes are not fully implemented

So, the answer to your question about the usage of "or" with the first whether is that the author of the sentence wanted to give us the second outcome clearly as it cannot be understood automatically. However, with the second one, the alternate scenario is quite clear and hence does not need to be stated explicitly. For example:

1. Whether he gets the job or is wait-listed for the position is irrelevant to his friends.
2. Whether he gets the job (or he does not get the job) is irrelevant to his friends.

As you can see, in the first case, the "waitlist" part couldn't have been understood had the author not mentioned it explicitly. However, in the second sentence, the "or not" part is understood. Of course, the two sentences above mean entirely different things. So, one cannot say that the second sentence is a better or more concise version of the first one.

To sum it with a bit of humor, whether the author uses the "or" part in a whether construction usually depends on whether the "or" part adds something else to the meaning of the sentence.

3. For raffamaiden: Whether and If cannot be used interchangeably on the GMAT. It's not about preference, it's about the intended meaning. If you want to convey choices/alternate scenarios, please use "whether". If you want to convey outcomes of a particular circumstance, use "if". Let's take a scenario that we will exploit one time by using "if" and one time by using "whether".

a. If he calls me, I will talk to him. - Concentrate on the "if" part. In the "if" portion, he DOES call me. There is no other condition.
b. My talking to him depends on whether he calls me (or not). - Concentrate on the "whether" part. In the whether portion, there are two scenarios implied - he does call me and he does NOT call me.

I hope the above discussion helps.

Cheers!

NS

Hi raffamaiden, this question isn't really testing on if vs whether usage; however, the distinction is quite clear:

if is used for a conditional sentence, whereas whether is used when the intent is to depict a choice, an alternative or a possibility.

From a grammar perspective, the if portion of a conditional construct, will never have a would/will.

So, for example, following would be incorrect:

If Peter will work hard, he will score well.

Correct construct is:

If Peter works hard, he will score well.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses this topic of if vs whether. Have attached the corresponding section of the book, for your reference.

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I feel - whether is used when there is a choice and we use "if" in cases when there is a condition

Even if we fix the parallelism, we have a "whether... or not" structure that the GMAT considers redundant.

Also, "dependent on whether..." doesn't seem idiomatically correct (not sure why you wouldn't use "depending on..." instead). Regardless, does the "dependent on..." part only go with the second half of the either/or list? The upfront placement of the "whether..." part in (A) makes the meaning more clear.

But I wouldn't worry too much about trying to fix an answer choice. As long as you understand why (A) is better than (E) as written, you've done your job.



I certainly don't recall seeing "whether or not" in a correct answer choice. That said, the moment we think we've uncovered a "rule," the GMAT tends to put us in our place. Usually "whether or not" isn't the only deciding factor, so I'd recommend looking for other clues to support eliminating any options where it appears.

I hope that helps!
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The structure is actually this:

...their management has proposed changes.

So, changes is not the subject but the object. The subject is management and hence, singular verb has has been used.
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In this question, the only thing tested is the rules of usage for the two words "Whether" and "If", and different kinds of usages for them. Thankfully, in this question, all you need to know about the usage of "If", is that it should be used only if the statement talks about more than 2 things.

In both the sentences in this question, there are only two things being compared/talked about, so any option that has "If" in the place of "Whether" can right away be eliminated.

So, Options B & D are eliminated.

Option C is phrased very poorly. If you want to eliminate this option grammatically, then look at how this answer option starts. "Their either scaling back..." is incorrect. It should be "They are" either scaling back. There are a bunch of other issues with this answer option, but I am not going to go in depth with them in this post.

So, Option C can also be eliminated.

We are left with Options A and E.

Now, you need to know and apply the rules of usage of the word "Whether" in order to arrive at the correct answer here.

Correct Usages:

1. Whether X or Y.
2. Whether X (Implied that the only other option is "Not X").
3. Whether or not (This can be used interchangeably with the word "Regardless"). Ex: Whether or not it rains today, I am going to leave to Office by 7AM.

Incorrect Usage:

1. Whether X, or not X. Using it this way brings the meaning of "Regardless", hence usage of this sort is incorrect.

In Option E, "Whether or Not" is used. In this context, you're trying to say, "Scaling back or Shutting down" is dependent on either the changes being implemented, or not being implemented.

i.e. usage of the word "Whether" is to say Whether "X" or "Not X". So, Whether or not should not be used, It should just be Whether.

So, option E can also be eliminated. Option A is the correct Answer.

This can be understood by knowing the difference between Whether and If.

If: Used for conditions
Whether : Used for choices and in sentences where the intention is regardless

e.g.
Let me know if you're playing - In this sentence, the author is trying to say to let him know if you're playing. If you don't tell the author then he'll assume that you're not playing.
Let me know whether you're playing (or not) - Here the author is asking you to tell him if you're playing or you're not playing. So, you've to tell the author regardless. The use of (or not) is optional in English (and redundant in GMAT) because whether is giving you a choice anyway.

Regardless use of whether:
I'm playing whether you're playing or not. - Here the author is trying to communicate that he is going to play even if you play or even if you don't play. Here the use of or not is compulsory because the author is not asking anything here but he's telling.

Now coming back to option choices:
A. Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop doing business with us altogether depends on whether the changes that their management has proposed will be fully implemented.--- Whether they will (scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels [or not] or stop doing business with us altogether) depends on whether the changes that their management has proposed will be fully implemented. This choice is perfect!!

B. Whether they scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or whether they discontinue their business with us altogether depends on the changes their management has proposed, if fully implemented or not. - Usage of if is wrong for giving the choices

C. Their either scaling back their orders in the future to pre-2003 levels, or their outright termination of business with us, depends on their management’s proposed changes being fully implemented or not. -- This choice is rather wordy. If I had to write this choice, I would've written it down as :
Their either scaling back their orders in the future to pre-2003 levels, or their outright termination of business with us, depends on the changes proposed by their management.

D. Whether they will scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels or stop doing business with us altogether depends if the changes that their management has proposed become fully implemented -- if [...] then whether [...] or whether [...], if [...] usage is completely wrong.

E. They will either scale back their orders to pre-2003 levels, or they will stop doing business with us altogether dependent on whether the changes their management has proposed will be fully implemented, or not. -- No helping verb before dependent, usage of or not is not redundant in GMAT.

So (A) is the correct answer choice.

I'm not sure I follow your question, but I think "X" and "Y" need to contain verbs in that structure.

It would be incorrect to say, "Whether dogs or cats depends on whether..."

However, this would be okay: "Whether dogs stay at home or run away depends on whether their owners feed them bacon." Here we have a parallel list of verbs ("stay" and "run"), and the subject of those verbs is "dogs."

Let us know if that doesn't answer your question!
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That is correct.

i) For has proposed, the subject is management
ii) For will be, the subject is changes
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mk96
No, they cannot be used interchangeably. They play different roles. I do not have the exact technical explanation of the 2 terms, but I would say "either" is more complete/independent. Eg - Either you pick Spanish or you pick French. (You can call this a complete sentence).

Whether X or Y is usually followed by a condition/explanation of some sort. Whether you pick spanish or you pick french, I don't care.. I had to add the add the underlined part otherwise it would have just been a run-on.

C is an absolute mess of a sentence. One of the major grammatical issues is parallelism, as already described by GMAT ninja in one of his posts above.

Hope this helps!

Please read the thread:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/whether-they ... l#p2302869
https://gmatclub.com/forum/whether-they ... l#p2334593
https://gmatclub.com/forum/whether-they ... l#p2620041

Hope it helps.
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Indeed, GMAT seems to playing slightly smart here, since there is no explicit antecedent of they/their.

But the good part is that all the five options (including C) use similar structure; so pronoun antecedent is not a differentiating factor here.
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Consider a simpler example:

"Whether the Kings win an NBA title next season depends on whether most of their players get dramatically better at basketball."

Here, the portion in red is the main subject of the verb "depends," and is itself a dependent clause. The terminology is less important than recognizing that 1) this usage is perfectly fine and 2) the "whether" clause needs a singular verb.

I hope that clears things up!
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Certainly not something we see every day on the GMAT! But since we have the same "issue" in all five choice, we don't have to worry about it.

Remember, we're not here to look at a single sentence in a bubble and label it right or wrong based on our so-called grammar rules. These "rules" are really about clarity: pronouns with clear and logical references are generally better than pronouns that lack a clear and logical reference. Why? Because obviously the meaning is clearer in the first case.

In a piece of writing, you'll certainly see sentences that have a pronoun without an antecedent. In this particular question, the GMAT is just implying some unknown subject that presumably would have been mentioned earlier, if this sentence had been part of a larger passage.

But again, the most important takeaway is this: if you see the same "issue" in all five choices, then you KNOW that you can't use that "issue" as a decision point. End of story.

I hope that helps!
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