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# Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to

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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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21 Sep 2016, 01:11
They refers to two antecedent Good eating habits and The Ballet Dancers.
The relative pronoun "They" must be placed near the antecedent.

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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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02 Jun 2017, 00:17
Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to maintain good eating habits caused by the desire to be as thin as possible.

(A) Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to maintain good eating habits caused by the desire to be as thin as possible. - good eating habits are not caused by the desire
(B) Good eating habits sometimes fail to be maintained by young female ballet dancers and gymnasts caused by desiring to be as thin as possible. - good eating habits do not fail
(C) Because they desire to be as thin as possible, good eating habits are sometimes not maintained by young female ballet dancers and gymnasts. - good eating habits do not desire
(D) Because they desire to be as thin as possible, young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to maintain good eating habits. - Looks good
(E) Young female dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to maintain good eating habits because they desire to be as thin as possible. - ambiguous "they" and also the word "ballet" missing

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Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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08 Aug 2017, 11:37
How can "good eating habits desire to be as thin as possible" in E ?
Isn't "they" clearly referring to Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts in E?
So should we just take into consideration the proximity?

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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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09 Aug 2017, 05:18
Merged topics. Please, search before posting questions!
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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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09 Aug 2017, 09:36
I marked E; Not sure why D is correct.
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Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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10 Aug 2017, 00:06
sallysea wrote:
Merged topics. Please, search before posting questions!

Hi sallysea,
I didn't start a new thread with a new question . Before you merged the topics it was a separate question with an ongoing discussion under it, and I replied to that.

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Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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16 Aug 2017, 02:24
Is there a typo in this question? "Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts" is a plural subject that requires a plural verb "sometime". Experts, please provide feedback

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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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31 Aug 2017, 17:53
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Expert's post
gatreya14 The verb here is "fail," which is plural. "Sometimes" is an adverb (it indicates when/how the dancers fail), and we don't adjust adverbs for singular/plural.
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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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26 Oct 2017, 06:52
bhanushalinikhil wrote:
izing wrote:
Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to maintain good eating habits caused by the desire to be as thin as possible.

A) Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to maintain good eating habits caused by the desire to be as thin as possible.
B) Good eating habits sometimes fail to be maintained by young female ballet dancers and gymnasts caused by desiring to be as thin as possible.
C) Because they desire to be as thin as possible, good eating habits are sometimes not maintained by young female ballet dancers and gymnasts.
D) Because they desire to be as thin as possible, young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to maintain good eating habits.
E) Young female dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to maintain good eating habits because they desire to be as thin as possible.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Kaplan says answer is D, I think the answer is E. Here's what Kaplan has to say, which I don't understand:
The modifier is misplaced here. What is caused by the desire to be as thin as possible? Not good eating habits, though that's the impression you could get from (A), and not the ballet dancers and gymnasts, though that's the impression you could get from (B). And who or what desires to be as thin as possible? Not good eating habits, though you could get that impression from (C) or (E), both of which use the passive voice unnecessarily and confusingly. The answer is (D), in which pronoun reference and the placement of modifiers is perfectly clear.

A side question: do posting this information here for discussion break the copyright law? I suppose not, as I am not reproducing or distributing the content, rather putting just a question up for discussion.

IMO, D is better than choice than E. In E, pronoun "they" is ambigious. Its the position of "they" that creates problem. However, in D, "they" has a confirmed antecedent "young female ballet dancers and gymnasts". This is because the clause "Because they desire to be as thin as possible" is a modifier clause that modifies the subject "young female ballet dancers and gymnasts". Hence "D" seems better choice.

I see E is talking about dancer rather than "ballat dancer" so it can be eliminated. if its not a typo

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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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01 Nov 2017, 04:34
VeritasPrepKarishma

Hi,

Can you please explain how "they" is ambiguous in E here when the subject for E is clearly Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts

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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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01 Nov 2017, 04:57
Poorvasha wrote:
VeritasPrepKarishma

Hi,

Can you please explain how "they" is ambiguous in E here when the subject for E is clearly Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts

The point is that you have a better option where the ambiguity issue does not arise. In (E), since they is placed closer to "good eating habits", in another context, they could easily refer them. So you pick the option where there is no question of any ambiguity.
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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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01 Nov 2017, 05:11
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
Poorvasha wrote:
VeritasPrepKarishma

Hi,

Can you please explain how "they" is ambiguous in E here when the subject for E is clearly Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts

The point is that you have a better option where the ambiguity issue does not arise. In (E), since they is placed closer to "good eating habits", in another context, they could easily refer them. So you pick the option where there is no question of any ambiguity.

But how can "good eating habits" desire to be as thin as possible ??

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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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13 Nov 2017, 20:06
Aside from the meaning issues,

Is there any grammatical problem in (A) ?

mikemcgarry

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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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15 Nov 2017, 13:57
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Expert's post
bluetrain wrote:
Aside from the meaning issues,

Is there any grammatical problem in (A) ?

mikemcgarry

Dear bluetrain,

I'm happy to respond.

I have two responses to your question.
The simple answer is no. The more sophisticated answer is to point out that your question is very like asking, "aside from the fact that Person G has murdered seven people, is he a nice guy?" Meaning is the point of language. A sentence that grammatically correct but meaningless is useless.

Does all this make sense?
Mike
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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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15 Nov 2017, 20:25
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
Poorvasha wrote:
VeritasPrepKarishma

Hi,

Can you please explain how "they" is ambiguous in E here when the subject for E is clearly Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts

The point is that you have a better option where the ambiguity issue does not arise. In (E), since they is placed closer to "good eating habits", in another context, they could easily refer them. So you pick the option where there is no question of any ambiguity.

Hello Karishma,

As per link below, one of gmat club verbal expert wrote that "if a sentence has more than one clause (dependent or independent), then the grammatical subject of the second clause can unambiguously refer to the grammatical subject of the first clause.".

https://gmatclub.com/forum/china-s-vast ... l#p1835812

Kindly guide.

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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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19 Nov 2017, 23:46
can we use they even though 2 plural entities are their and connected with "and"we can refer both of them with they is it possible please explain?

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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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20 Nov 2017, 09:24
sayantanc2k wrote:
mahakmalik wrote:
Is it a possibility that we can eliminate E on the basis that in original it is mentioned ballet dancers whereas in E it says dancers...........
Just wondering............

mahakmalik

The problem with E is that the pronoun they is ambiguous. It could refer either to habits or to dancers and gymnasts.

The omission of the word ballet seems to be inadvertent; in a GMAT test, you would probably not find such omissions.

hi sayantanc2k
I really confused with this one, in E " they" don't have an ambiguity, because habits don't desire to be thin
I remember the expert in other questions that pronoun should make sense if we want to say pronoun ambiguity

could you elaborate this?

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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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20 Nov 2017, 09:54
soodia wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
mahakmalik wrote:
Is it a possibility that we can eliminate E on the basis that in original it is mentioned ballet dancers whereas in E it says dancers...........
Just wondering............

mahakmalik

The problem with E is that the pronoun they is ambiguous. It could refer either to habits or to dancers and gymnasts.

The omission of the word ballet seems to be inadvertent; in a GMAT test, you would probably not find such omissions.

hi sayantanc2k
I really confused with this one, in E " they" don't have an ambiguity, because habits don't desire to be thin
I remember the expert in other questions that pronoun should make sense if we want to say pronoun ambiguity

could you elaborate this?

I 've been asking this for long time, unfortunately no explanations yet. How can "good eating habits desire to be as thin as possible" in E ?I asked that back in august:)

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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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26 Nov 2017, 11:15
Wow thats a fancy answer. I rejected E on basis of Meaning. "Young Female Dancers" is not same as "Young Female Ballet Dancer"

izing wrote:
Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to maintain good eating habits caused by the desire to be as thin as possible.

(A) Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to maintain good eating habits caused by the desire to be as thin as possible.
(B) Good eating habits sometimes fail to be maintained by young female ballet dancers and gymnasts caused by desiring to be as thin as possible.
(C) Because they desire to be as thin as possible, good eating habits are sometimes not maintained by young female ballet dancers and gymnasts.
(D) Because they desire to be as thin as possible, young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to maintain good eating habits.
(E) Young female dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to maintain good eating habits because they desire to be as thin as possible.

[Reveal] Spoiler: OE
Kaplan says answer is D, I think the answer is E. Here's what Kaplan has to say, which I don't understand:
The modifier is misplaced here. What is caused by the desire to be as thin as possible? Not good eating habits, though that's the impression you could get from (A), and not the ballet dancers and gymnasts, though that's the impression you could get from (B). And who or what desires to be as thin as possible? Not good eating habits, though you could get that impression from (C) or (E), both of which use the passive voice unnecessarily and confusingly. The answer is (D), in which pronoun reference and the placement of modifiers is perfectly clear.

A side question: do posting this information here for discussion break the copyright law? I suppose not, as I am not reproducing or distributing the content, rather putting just a question up for discussion.

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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to [#permalink]

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30 Nov 2017, 21:16
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Expert's post
deucebigalow We don't always have to have two sensible interpretations to have ambiguity. We are also trying to make the sentence as clear and easy to read as possible. While I agree that the meaning of E is clear, and I'm not sure E would appear as a wrong answer on an official question, notice that D is identical in every way except that the order dictates exactly what "they" refers to. The #1 question when we're trying to determine if something is a problem is this: Do we have a valid sentence that fixes it? D fixes this issue without introducing any new problems, so it's the winner.
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Re: Young female ballet dancers and gymnasts sometimes fail to   [#permalink] 30 Nov 2017, 21:16

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