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[#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2007, 13:08
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 [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2007, 17:04
possible_phd:

Your score is actually much better than you think. With above 80% in each section, most programs won't bother to give your score a second look, they'll most likely just jump directly to the other portion of your profile.

If you think you can only get a +10 or +20, generally consensus is don't bother. With a built in error of +-30, you'd need at least a 750 to make the new score meaningful. Not to mention your score might actually go down due to circumstances not in your control.

Granted I'm in the same boat as you, albeit with merely a 700, so I understand it's not always clear cut.

If you have the time and strength, sure, give it a shot. If not, spend the time and effort being a wonderful TA, get your name attached to that research project, and start gathering up LORs and writing SOIs.

What schools are you looking at btw?
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 [#permalink] New post 31 Aug 2007, 09:34
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Sep 2007, 07:59
possible_phd wrote:
I just got my official score report and got a 6.0 on the AWA, not that it means anything. heh

Your score is actually much better than you think. With above 80% in each section, most programs won't bother to give your score a second look, they'll most likely just jump directly to the other portion of your profile.

I hear applicants toss this assumption around a lot, but it's just a guess, as far as I know. I mean, it is nice to think this, but I'd rather have no hope than false hope. ;-)

If you think you can only get a +10 or +20, generally consensus is don't bother. With a built in error of +-30, you'd need at least a 750 to make the new score meaningful.

I don't agree with the notion that a 730 is no different from a 710 in the eyes of admissions. Yes, the standard error is 29 points, but that also means the 710 could be a 680, whereas the 730 would be a 700 at worst.

Not to mention your score might actually go down due to circumstances not in your control.

Yeah, I've thought about that. I plan to send my score reports now to the schools I'm fairly sure I'll apply to. If I improve my score enough, I'll send them my newer scores later.

If you have the time and strength, sure, give it a shot. If not, spend the time and effort being a wonderful TA, get your name attached to that research project, and start gathering up LORs and writing SOIs.

Thanks. I've decided to take it one last time, this time using the Official Guide (I only used Baron's and Kaplan before) and focusing on the most difficult math problems. I have no doubt I can improve my quant score, and my verbal score was unusually low (I checked my GMAT from 2003 and had a 93% on verbal).

What schools are you looking at btw?

The usual suspects: Cornell, Berkeley, Wharton, NYU, etc, etc. The prof who suggested the PhD in the first place is a Cornell alum. I think that's my only hope without a better GMAT! :-(



1- dude, you've sort of shown that your score is a true score and not because of the standard error. you've earned your 710 - its not luck.

2-every committee is different, but you are almost showing a lack of self awareness and immaturity by continuing plugging away with the GMAT.
Why not contact one of your old professors and see if they need a free TA or RA for the next couple months instead? You would probably be better served showing them a working paper that you helped a professor on, or a course syllabus you designed then getting a 730 on your third attempt at the GMAT

3- Is the Prof at Cornell in the business department? If so, that is HUGE, and you have a great shot of being admitted there. Cornell is a great school. Why not just put together the app for Cornell and see what happens. If you have a prof on your side, I think that will count WAY more than any score on the GMAT. If you cant get into Cornell when you have one of their own faculty rooting for you --- 730 vs 710 will not matter.

good luck!
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Sep 2007, 11:07
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 [#permalink] New post 02 Sep 2007, 07:37
i guess it all depends on what program you are looking at. if you think you underperfomed than do it again. i was looking at it from the perspective that "he took it twice, got basically the same score twice so he is scoring at his level". Your time on earth is finite, and the obsession with the GMAT has to end at some point and people have to move on.

I would say most adcoms would have a similar thought process on first glance as well. unless you want to use your optional application essay to tell them that you took the GMAT the first time totally unprepared (as you can imagine, this won't impress B-Schools) and then tell them the second time you did not do well because of poor time management (again, you aren't going to win anyone over here either)

most programs i've looked at have an avrage around 700. i've seen some good programs that want you to have over 650 (McCombs??) and even with averages of like 680 (Maryland?) Of course i've seen lots of averages with a 720 etc (NYU CORNELL.) if you think that the higher score is what you need to differentiate yourself go for it. Personally, I just don't think a 20 or 30 point - hell even 40 point - improvement on your *third* try is going to wow anyone on a PhD committee.

I don't think GMAT score is the important deciding factor you think it is for PhD programs. Average GMAT scores are so high because really talented people go for their PhDs... yes of course... so you need to score high and should aim to break 700. but remember, PhD programs aren't subject to ridiculous rankings by magazines like BW. (yeah I know FT does a ranking, but no one pays attention to it) PhD programs do not make money for Universities like MBA programs do. PhD programs are about researching and producing knowledge.

If applicant X has a 680, but worked on a series of published papers as an RA he will beat the egghead with a 750 GMAT and no experience any day. If thats not the case, then its not a program that has their priorities straight, and they aren't interested in producing high quality PhDs who actually MAKE IT THROUGH the program (PhD is worthless if you don't complete it)

You have a professor on your side here, do as much work as you can for him. If I was in your shoes, not a precious extra minute would be spent on the GMAT - I would be groveling at this Professors feet for any bit of work I could get my hands on.

That's just my opinion. Don't take offense to anything I said here... everyone has the path that is right for them...

P.S. what Top 20 MBA program does not have GPA? That is sounds cool/interesting
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 [#permalink] New post 02 Sep 2007, 11:15
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 [#permalink] New post 08 Sep 2007, 20:20
You sound like studying, and then writing, the GMAT is no big deal and you really have nothing better to do with your time. If it's the case then go for it.

I don't think anyone who actually makes admissions _decisions_ at the PhD level is concerned AT ALL with average GMAT statistics of the entering PhD class, although some schools do disclose such statistics. You have to understand that as opposed to MBA admissions, there are no admissions committees at most schools - applications above a baseline level (that a 710 GMAT exceeds for sure) are fed directly to departments, ie. Finance, Accounting, OB, Marketing... department chairs may or may not form committees or delegate decisions to another faculty member, and they may or may not have to take orders from the Dean's office (such as "you can't admit more than 2 this year"); the point is that they do make the final decision, and they likely don't care whether the applicants they think are the best have a 710 or 750 GMAT, although most probably do factor in that score in their evaluations.
  [#permalink] 08 Sep 2007, 20:20
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