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WSJ article [#permalink] New post 08 Nov 2008, 17:04
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1226009 ... %3Darticle

It would be interesting to hear some perspective from current students. How bad is it? Are there 2008 grads who are still without a job? How about companies visiting campus? Has the freeze extended to other industries - consulting, technology, marketing etc.?

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Re: WSJ article [#permalink] New post 08 Nov 2008, 18:14
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At HBS, we've been told that job posting for 1st year internships are actually up about 35% while 2nd year full-time job postings are down 15%. Not surprisingly, the banking job offers are down across the board. I would say that the other industries (especially consulting) are more competitive due to the influx of would-be bankers more than anything else. The general sense is that in a market like this you have to play more to your strengths/experience (in other words, it's a lot harder to do both functional and industry career changes).
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Re: WSJ article [#permalink] New post 08 Nov 2008, 19:10
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dox wrote:
At HBS, we've been told that job posting for 1st year internships are actually up about 35% while 2nd year full-time job postings are down 15%. Not surprisingly, the banking job offers are down across the board. I would say that the other industries (especially consulting) are more competitive due to the influx of would-be bankers more than anything else. The general sense is that in a market like this you have to play more to your strengths/experience (in other words, it's a lot harder to do both functional and industry career changes).

We literally just started recruiting at Stanford (mandated Exclusive Academic Period until mid-terms finished up at end of October), but internship recruiting seems pretty good. I don't yet have a sense of stats for internship or full-time (2nd year) stats, especially since so many students here pursue off-campus/informal recruiting options. Overall, though, I think dox is pretty dead on: a 180-degree career turn might be more difficult than it was in previous years.
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Re: WSJ article [#permalink] New post 08 Nov 2008, 19:26
Good start, to hear from both H and S students. Thanks!

rhyme, Aau, kry, RR (and all other clubbers currently in school) - What is your experience?
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Re: WSJ article [#permalink] New post 08 Nov 2008, 22:40
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I'd say that here in Chicago is the same thing, if you want to do a extreme change things will be really hard. FT offers for Financial sector are down, nothing new about it, on the other hand, number for corporate companies, and even in finance related rules are way up. It seems that summer internship won't be that affected - even the Lehman bankruptcy will not play that big deal as Barclays Capital is coming here and offering many positions - but I'd expect that for FT things are harder at the financial sector.

That said, I've seen many firms that usually didn't hire heavily coming to talk to people, many companies - from many sectors - are taking advantage to attract smart people to their staff.

I'd say that now people will have to be much more flexible with choices and paths than they were a couple of years - not to say months - ago.
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Re: WSJ article [#permalink] New post 09 Nov 2008, 08:49
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Note we are much like stanford, companies arent allowed here until mid october and now its just events, coffee chats, and get to know you stuff. Most resumes aren't due until mid dec or early january. Second years' recruiting starts in September and tons of interviews have been going on for the last few weeks.

If anyone says its as good or better than two years ago then either they aren't being honest or their career services aren't telling them the truth. I tend to think current students are less worried than they really should be at this point. Yes almost everyone will get jobs but the question is will that job be what they thought it would be when they started applying to schools one or two years ago? Yes plenty of people will get their dream jobs but there are some who definitely wont. Thats going to happen everyplace, whether its an M7 or a top 25 school. However, the elites/ultra elite schools wont take nearly the hit other schools will. Schools with very broad recruiting and job placement will be better off than schools that send huge numbers to one or two areas...especially if a school sends 50% of their students into banking jobs.

All the same companies are here as in the past...the school is also going after some companies that used to come but stopped showing up because they weren't as succesful recruiting as they hoped and they also are bringing in lots of new smaller mid-market ones. A lot of the big players are still recruiting but the number of interns and/or full time people they are bringing in are lower (overall not school specific). If a company hired 24 people for their intern class two or three years ago they are going for 16 or 18 this year (this is often from 4-7 schools). However, I would say about half the companies I have been to have said they want to maintain the number of recruits the same here...so read that as some of their lower positioned schools will be taking a larger hit.

I think the 2nd years now are having a much harder time than 1st years are since companies filled a lot of their numbers from internship...so if you hated yours or were hoping for something different, the options are going to be sllimmer than in past years. Students are happy with their offers so accepted them earlier than in the past instead of testing the waters again to see if something better comes along. This is probably most true for banks (who really dont know what the world will be like next august/sept) and companies that have relatively small numbers of MBAs coming in. I know a few bankers who were going to do recruiting again this year and just didnt think it was worth the risk of their signing bonus (note in certain industries bonuses often have acceptance dates prior to decisions from recruiting, if you dont accept they start to decrease) so they accepted their summer offers. I do know people getting offers at the big consulting companies even if they didnt intern there but its hard to tell how this will be going forward...they could hire more interns than in the past and then do minimal 2nd year recruiting or they could continue to operate as they did in the past.

I think all of my second year friends who are doing traditional areas have an offer and plenty have two or more (often got one for their internships and then recruited one, two, or even three more). The people doing non-traditional stuff like HF/VC/PE all recruit very late in the cycle anyways so they really dont know whats going on at this point...and wont until this spring. By that point things could be better or even worse. Judging by discussions with 2nd years there has been an uptick of competition for marketing, corporate finance, and consulting here as people originally thinking of switching into banking now think thats a bad idea and are looking for other options. This is probably true at all schools. Having a relatively small portion of a class being finance focused I think the numbers would be smaller here but maybe students arent as committed here so the percentage of wanna be bankers bailing could be higher...its hard to tell.

Honestly, I would be leary of thinking of switching into banking without some experience that directly relates at this point. Its still possible but its not going to be fun. Companies are still showing up but remember there are fewer big players now and they are recruiting a lot fewer people. So if you want an IB job without industry experience you may need to go more towards smaller boutique or mid market companies not bulge bracket. I think that is going to be true industry wide so all schools are going to be going through this. The more schools were based on the big banks the more their recruiting is going to be changing in the coming years.

However, I would imagine that career services at all schools are actively finding places for students to recruit. I know here they are doing tons of work in that regard and are involving the administration and the big wig alums. Our deans are traveling a lot to meet with executives at companies and career center folks are constantly reaching out to the recruiting contacts. 60 or so alums (all senior executive level) who make up the alumni council were on campus last week and this was a point of discussion on what they could do...a few of these individuals are very influential at companies that recruit heavily here and one actually said she was aiming for more students from kellogg even though their numbers are going to be down. I guess they are seeing an increase in interest so they feel they can actually get more people they would want than in the past. This probably is true at all schools who have alums in positions to make that decision...knowing that things are tough out there they of course are going to try to help out their school if they can.

Remember guys though you are going to be going into the job market in 2011 not 2009 or 2010. Look at 2004 vs 2001 and its a world of difference...you guys will be seeing something totally different than we are and in reality we are going to see something different than what 2nd years are seeing right now.
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Re: WSJ article [#permalink] New post 09 Nov 2008, 09:25
Great analysis riverripper! +1
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Re: WSJ article [#permalink] New post 10 Nov 2008, 09:53
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kudos to all those who posted here!

I heard from a friend at Columbia, back in September, that nearly 50% of IB interns did not have FT offers. I would think Stern would be similar in that regard, where half or more recruit in finance roles.

Remember guys though you are going to be going into the job market in 2011 not 2009 or 2010. Look at 2004 vs 2001 and its a world of difference...you guys will be seeing something totally different than we are and in reality we are going to see something different than what 2nd years are seeing right now.

Yes, that's the only thing that can explain the rise in applicant volume - people trying to ride out the downturn in school. Though, no one can be sure how long this downturn will last. The tech bust seems like a blip compared to the economy now :|
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Re: WSJ article [#permalink] New post 24 Nov 2008, 13:27
There was a recent article in Harbus (HBS Student newspaper) that this student who applied to 7 jobs got 8 rejections....

8th one was from a company the student didn't even apply to but the company decided to send out a mass email to everyone saying that they are now on hiring freeze for the year...
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Re: WSJ article [#permalink] New post 24 Nov 2008, 13:35
ninkorn wrote:
There was a recent article in Harbus (HBS Student newspaper) that this student who applied to 7 jobs got 8 rejections....

8th one was from a company the student didn't even apply to but the company decided to send out a mass email to everyone saying that they are now on hiring freeze for the year...



man that's sad

Let's hope by 2011, the ecomony is strong and companies will be throwing money at fresh MBAs to come back to work
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Re: WSJ article [#permalink] New post 24 Nov 2008, 13:38
man that's sad

Let's hope by 2011, the ecomony is strong and companies will be throwing money at fresh MBAs to come back to work[/quote]

Amen brother....
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Re: WSJ article [#permalink] New post 24 Nov 2008, 13:48
ninkorn wrote:
There was a recent article in Harbus (HBS Student newspaper) that this student who applied to 7 jobs got 8 rejections....


is it real? I mean, someone at HBS getting rejected from 7 jobs because of market?

I am inlcined to think the logic goes the other way round: Market is bad because Harvards have been accepting people who get rejected from 7 jobs afterwards.
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Re: WSJ article [#permalink] New post 24 Nov 2008, 13:52
ninkorn wrote:
There was a recent article in Harbus (HBS Student newspaper) that this student who applied to 7 jobs got 8 rejections....

8th one was from a company the student didn't even apply to but the company decided to send out a mass email to everyone saying that they are now on hiring freeze for the year...


I don't think 7 applications is all that much for jobs. They are free to apply to unlike b-schools. Cover letters while they take time to do properly aren't nearly as time consuming at application essays or even a case write up.
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Re: WSJ article   [#permalink] 24 Nov 2008, 13:52
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