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PPT from the Haas GM/Strategy Club website detailing the different GM roles:

https://www4.mbafocus.com/careernet/resources/cp/cp_gm_050707.pdf
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ac8706 wrote:
1) Are there any backgrounds that tend to feed into GM programs? I got the sense from speaking with some current Fuqua students that really anyone can transition into GM, it's more about showing that you can learn easily. Is that what y'all have seen/heard?

GM isnt as hard to transfer into as some industries but most aren't as hard as you might thing. If you are at a top school companies know you are intelligent, motivated, and at most schools you will have a track record of success.

My experiences with GM recruiting so far: Note not many people recruit for it heavily compared to marketing, finance, or consulting.
-Engineering and consulting backgrounds seem to be valued, they like analytical abillites. IB'ers do well too.
-Engineers and consultants often have more relatent work experience, which is very valuable.
-Prior leadership experience is good, especially if you led teams with diverse backgrounds...manufacturers value people who can interact with not only other highly educated managers but the hourly employees.
-GM also happens to be more popular with people with engineering and consulting backgrounds.
-Most programs want a minimum of 3 to 4 years of work experience.
-Very few programs accept internationals


ac8706 wrote:
2) It seems that most of them are in the manufacturing space (e.g. GE, John Deere). Is there a reason why? Is it just because it's easier to learn the skills associated with those programs in that type of industry?

The well known ones do tend to be in manufacturing space since these are a lot of the major companies that need GM. GE, Danaher, Deere, Eaton, Emerson...etc.
-CPG's have marketing as the feeders to the top of their companies
-Banks use their finance employees

If you look outside the box there are rotational programs in a large variety of industries such as energy, healthcare, services...and there are some international opportunities. If you look at companies that recruit at European schools it helps show there are companies overseas with programs such as Mittal, Rolls Royce, British Telecom, British American Tobacco...etc.


Also not all GM programs are rotational, some have more finance or strategy paths. Some great GM jobs aren't rotational at all. And some rotational programs arent strictly GM. Cargill is a strategy position and Chevron has a big finance program.
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kidro2001 wrote:
Hey RR,

Off-topic, but out of curiosity, what piqued your interest in Energy? Are some special programs/initiatives at Kellogg for people with interest in energy? Is it a part of SEEK, or something more traditional? I am interested in the same industry and just trying to figure out whats out there.


I was sort of in the "energy" industry before and have a strong background in a lot of different aspects of the industry. Figure its a good place to be, I am really interested in it, and having a background gives you a leg up at any job when you enter fresh out of b-school.

Kellogg doesnt have a dedicated energy major, I think only a few schools do. There are some courses that relate to it and there is a push by students to get more, remember we are "student led" so students actually have enough say to make that happen. It might not happen until the students doing the pushing are gone, but chances are it will get implemented. There is a pretty active energy club, along with some alumni interaction. My alumni mentor is in the industry and has been very helpful so far. My 2nd year mentor interned and is going fulltime to one of my target companies, and she also has been helpful with advice.

However, much like with any specialty you are going to be on your own for some opportunities. Yes some energy shows up on campus. PG&E, Chevron, Exxon, BP, (DTE did until this year), Duke Energy is coming back, GE comes, a few of the big wind players are recruiting. Smaller companies post positions on the job board. One advantage of a big school for a specialized area like energy is there are lots of alums in lots of functions at tons of companies. Factor in the huge PT and EMBA network and you have probably one of the largest alumni networks in the MBA world. I have actually reached out to both EMBA and PT folks and they love it, I think it was something they didnt get to do much while in school since those people typically have jobs so its nice for them to be able to help out.

Honestly, you probably arent going to find many programs with extremely strong energy curriculums, there just arent tons of students that go into it. Yes there is a lot of interest but not much follow through. Most of the top schools send >1 to maybe 3% of their class to energy and those are often heavily weighted in the big oil area. I think PG&E has the strongest program of utilities and their recruiting classes are still relatively small. The advantage of that is you are a star the day you show up and get a lot of attention...work hard and chances are you wont get lost in the shuffle and will be able to move up.

Note, a few classmates and I have been discussing trying to get an energy conference going. There is a lot of interest in the field these days and if we pull it off and then it becomes a year event like many conferences have in the past...it will definitely add to Kellogg's brand in the energy world.
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speaking of Energy, Berkeley Haas is probably one of those very few programs that have a very strong affiliation with energy/clean tech. The program is huge at Haas and I know a large percentage of people go into that field. A new program that started this year that's been a big hit is the "Clean Tech to Market" program, where students work with the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory and bring some of their research work into a commercializable form.

https://www.haas.berkeley.edu/innovation ... ion18.html

Also, the UC Berkeley wide Berkeley Energy & Resources Collaborative (BERC) is very active and involves schools from Haas, Law School, Public Policy, and others. A LOT of students are involved in it and there are many programs out there. Instead of listing them all here, I will provide you with links to read up on the program.

Also, not only the traditional energy companies recruit here (Chevron, PG&E), there are LOTS of startups in the area doing biofuels and solar tech that students join after getting their MBA.

In short, if you want to do energy/clean tech stuff, Berkeley is one of the places to do it.

BERC:
https://berc.berkeley.edu/

Severin Borenstein - the director of UC Energy Institute and a great economist
https://faculty.haas.berkeley.edu/borenste/

Some programs offered in the energy area (plus lots of links on this page):
https://www.haas.berkeley.edu/innovation ... tion5.html

Center for Energy and Environmental Innovation (CEEI)
https://ceei.berkeley.edu/
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Alright, here's an update after some research into our Class of 2009 Resume book (the 2010 version is not out yet).

32 out of 240 students were involved with Renewable Energy/Clean Tech/Energy Policy, most of those were part of BERC.
13 out of those 32 students actually did a summer internship that is energy related, including:

- Natural Gas
- Lithium Ion Batteries
- Solar (many of them)
- Energy Policy (in the US and in Africa)
- Energy investments
- "Using Nanotech to fulfill our energy needs" (whatever that means)

Currently, 10 of BERCs new leadership team (class of 2010) are Haas students, and I know most of them want to pursue clean tech from speaking to them. This doesn't include others who are just members of BERC who are from Haas.

The greater UC Berkeley community (that forms BERC) is even more active in recent years, with the 3rd annual Energy Symposium coming up in 2009.

https://berc.berkeley.edu/?q=symposium

Cleantech to Market (C2M) involved quite a few of my classmates this year in very interesting projects (yes river, you got your batteries in there too :P):
https://berc.berkeley.edu/?q=cleantech-to-market

So unless we're talking about completely different things, river, that's quite a bit more than "single digits" of people interested or involved with energy related companies, clubs, or events.
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A lot of companies have GM rotational programs and these typically include a strategy rotation in them. GM is a very broad career path though. It really varies company to company, and even within some companies there are differences between what MBA's manage to secure for assignments. Strategy is more of an internal consultant role, more often you are focused on company startegy...while GM jobs combine a lot more skills and are more managing people, products, businesses.

One thing to consider if you want GM, many of the companies have minimum year of work experience. It can range from 3 to 5 depending on the company and the role. Some companies have different years for different positions...usually the top roles require the most years work experience. Consider that if your dream is GM and you are a young applicant. Look up the companies that are your top targets and see what they have for requirements (a lot of them have it on their sites). From what I have heard, the companies are pretty strict when they have requirements and some companies have VERY specific requirements.

For example Eaton Electric for their global leadership development program (they have serveral programs but thats the top one with the most responsibility and facetime with senior management), they require at least 5 years work experience as an engineer.
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fluidian wrote:
Hey River - a few greats post.

I have a few questions - hopefully you can provide some insight.

1. You mentioned that the GE program isn't the most attractive these days - what do you consider the more attractive and selective GM programs?

2. What are the expected salaries in these programs - in year 1, as well as 5 years out? I know you mentioned that salaries (and bonus) vary, but perhaps you know the typical numbers for the GE program and 1 or 2 other programs - any info would be more than appreciated

Thanks!


1) depends on industry. Really depends on your personal goals and what type of industry you want to be in. What are you specifically looking for? Widely diversified manufacturing, energy, travel/leisure,high tech, bio/pharma...there are so many places and what might be amazing to me could be horrible for you.

2) companies kind of have to pay market value. Look at career reports and its probably similar to what you see. GE pays <100k which is great for some schools they recruit at but if someone else is offering you 20k more its tough. Usually if you do a rotational you will get a smallish bump after the first year (typical yearly raise 5-10% probably)...but when you rotate out into a position you can get a pretty good bump. 5 years out its hard to say, you can be a star in GM and move up fast and double your pay easily within 5 years or you could take the longer run by not having either the luck or the success and just get your 5-10% a year raise.

Honestly though if you guys are super concerned about making lots of money then GM isnt going to be it. You will make a nice living but chances are you wont be able to compete with what a MC or IB makes. However, you will sleep in your own bed every night, you will be home for dinner most of the time, you will make your kids soccer game on the weekend...
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Sorry for the delay...been crazy busy with school for the last say 6 months.

There are definitely finance programs that are somewhat GM but there are also a bunch of corporate finance positions that would be up your ally. Traditionally GM is a broad based skill area, I have taken a courses in every area of study here at Kellogg: accounting, finance, strategy, operations, marketing, etc...My majors will actually be strategy and international business. Since I have taken so many classes in different areas am one course short of a few others.

GM programs are drastically different and there is far from being a one size fits all description. Some of the best opportunities are actually outside of traditional GM recruiters. I have found some amazing career paths at some fortune 500 companies who dont have programs but are willing to bring on top talent with MBAs. Not always the sexiest industries or locations but some have great jobs. Some pay better than you would think. Average GM is probably in the 100k range (I have heard of offers of 85k-140k) and sign-on bonuses are less common than MC or banking. However, you probably wont travel 80-100% of the time and working 50hrs is more common than 100 like IB.

Since there is such a wide variety in both the type of work, culture, location and career path/prospects its very hard to judge different programs without doing lots of research. If there is something you want to do you there will be a few companies that fit your goals...sometimes its not the easiest thing to find. You also may be surprised what opportunities you end up liking the most and what you decide not to follow.
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1) Are there any backgrounds that tend to feed into GM programs?

I don't necessarily think so. I always thought folks with any type of leadership/management experience could go into GM programs. Maybe people with marketing/sales backgrounds have a slight advantage for certain program (like the ECLP at GE), but that advantage is minor, if it exists at all.


2) It seems that most of them are in the manufacturing space (e.g. GE, John Deere). Is there a reason why? Is it just because it's easier to learn the skills associated with those programs in that type of industry?

GE's program is actually marketing + sales focused. From what I know, you do 4 rotations and then come off-program into a marketing manager or a regional sales manager role. If you meant that GE is a company in the manufacturing space, then you are half-correct. GE is probably more well-known for its industrial businesses, but currently the financial side of GE generates approximately 50% of the revenues (it used to be 60% a few months ago...you can probably guess what happened). There are ECLP roles available in both the industrial (GE Healthcare, GE Energy) as well as the financial businesses (GE Money, GE Aviation Financial Services).
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kidro2001 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Abbott is in Chicago, or close to it. You could always do a reverse commute. Many people I know working at big companies in San Jose do it from SF.



Abbott is actually in Evanston, right next to Kellogg!

Also, if the Sony program referring to is SONYBMG 1-Yr Rotation program, a friend of mine went through it and it's basically 2-six month rotation. First rotation is as a sales manager or marketing manager of one of their entertainment (movie or mosic) units. Then next 6 month is rotation in their London office doing similar thing. However, this is a contractual 1 yr program. depending on their evaluation, you are extended a full time offer or not.

Also for GE Finance rotation program....(specifically GE Commercial Finance)

My roommate went through that program right out of college. Apparently, they mix both undergrads and MBAs in same program. His first rotation was as investment analyst (only in title). Job description is basically - GE Capital has (or used to have - they are in so much trouble lately) triple A credit rating. They can borrow money at such low interest rate compared to others. Then there are mid size corporations with shakier credit rating.

GE Capital takes on these mid size corporations as their client. If the mid size corp can borrow money at 11% interest rate directly from banks, and GE can borrow at say 5%, GE will charge somewhere in between to the mid size corp. Mid size corporation now gets loan at (say) 9% interest rate. GE goes to bank to borrow this sum at 5% and profits off the interest rate difference. Role of investment analysts are to drive/travel to these clients (like auditors) and assess/value the client's liquid asset. If the client has suffient liquid asset and solid balance sheet, investment analyst writes up a good rec letter for the loan etc etc.

My roommate quit after one year due to excessive traveling and lower pay compared to others. He went to South Carolina to count (literally) cows because they were the client's liquid asset. He also went to Northern california and counted boxes/cases of frozen fish inside a large refrigerator.....

But he did this for a year and this background was good enough for him to get a job as risk management analyst at Bear Stearns. When Bear folded into JP, he ended up staying with JP and currently works there.
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lsuguy7 wrote:
Quote:
Honestly, you probably aren’t going to find many programs with extremely strong energy curriculums, there just aren’t tons of students that go into it. Yes there is a lot of interest but not much follow through. Most of the top schools send >1 to maybe 3% of their class to energy and those are often heavily weighted in the big oil area.


I'm not sure this is completely correct, as I don't believe it has as much to do with top schools as it does with the industry. First I don't believe that most energy companies truly value an MBA (I work for one of the biggest in the world). Second unless you are doing energy consulting no one around here really cares where you got your MBA from. To that point if you want to look at schools to get you into the energy industry it is very simple - Energy Companies recruit regionally!


There is a difference between having strong relationships with companies and a curriculum that targets it. However, your core skills are what matter and those you will learn at any top school.

Some major energy companies definitely do value MBAs. They may hire lots of MBA's from different schools but they use top schools to feed the high profile jobs. Chevron actively recruits for their finance and marketing at only a handful of top schools. However, they dont take many people, only a half dozen or so a year. Of course they do accept applications from people at any school but your chances are a lot lower. Exxon and BP also recruit at only a handful of schools for certain positions.

There is a big difference between getting hired and getting the best starting positions. It is these positions that lead to the top. Its like Goldman Sachs recruits from tons of schools but some of those are for back office gigs that dont have the growth potential of the positions people coming from the top schools get.

However, certain fields definitely place and emphasis on prior experience and ties to that location. Energy is definitely one place that it helps to have a background that relates to it and/or you have strong reasons for being where the job will be. One thing to remember though is a lot of these top positions often require geographic mobility, many include long term assignments overseas so the regional ties are less important than you would think.
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I ran across some inside to share, Intl hired 15 employess for thier ALP program:
UC Berkley, Haas 3
UCLA, Anderson 1
Univ. of Mich, Ross 2
Chicago 1
Stanford 1
MIT, Sloan 2
Univ of Penn, Wharton 3
Northwestern, Kellogg 2

I believe a few of the rotation opportunities were in China/Malaysia/Vietnam. Most Intl expats to Asian countries get their own drivers, cause they don't want you to drive in Asia.
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Kryzak...LOTS? come on lets be honest. Even at energy "powerhouses" like McCombs energy is still a small percentage of students. Take out the big oil gigs and I bet almost every school is in the single digits for people going into energy. However, you have to look at how many people want to go into that field? Its self selecting and it is doing well relatively speaking these days, so there are lots of opportunities.

The bay area is pretty hot with green energy companies these days though, its just a matter of how many will succeed. Not all those solar companies will be successful (solar has a LONG way to go too). Biofuels is big in lots of place, there the issue is with oil down in price it is not economical anymore...especially if you eliminate subsidies. The place to be is BATTERIES, you heard it here. Get your MBA and join a battery company.
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riverripper wrote:
Kry there is a difference between people "interested" and people dedicated to making it their career. There are tons of people in our energy club, but a lot of them end up in consulting and finance. While someone in Goldmans energy group do work in energy, I don't view it the same way. I wasn't saying anything negative about Haas at all, just pointing out that true corporate energy jobs are a very small part of a school's placement. Berkely may have a great percentage (never said they didnt), but its still going to be small.

You guys probably do have strong placement compared to most schools since the bay area is pretty active with energy these days...Plus you have a great engineering program, which I think helps since those feed far more students into energy fields than any MBA program does.


River, I understand what you're saying. Just the way you said it ("let's be honest..") was a little bit... let's say, "strong". :)

I agree that there is definitely a lot more interest than people doing it, and that compared to high-tech companies, consulting, and other careers, it's a relatively small percentage. But what I hope I illustrated was that a relative good number (relative to most schools out there) of people actually do their internships and FT positions in energy.

We're probably saying the same thing, just interpreting it differently. But yes, the engineering school, law school, and public policy schools here, combined with Haas is what makes our energy collaborative so strong and produce so many exciting new products that eventually turn into startups. No question about that! :)

to others: glad my research was useful!
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Hi, all. I am doing GM after school (and did so this summer) so thought I'd respond a bit after skimming the thread.

First, Duke's energy and environment concentration is brand-spanking-new. Minted just a bit ago. It's exciting, though, since Blair is so behind it (Blair Sheppard, I mean, the dean.) We also have an increasing number of students doing joint degrees with the Nic School, so they'll also get a master's in environmental management (a MEMMBA!). Most, if not all of them are doing the energy track at the Nic School, and want to do energy work. I've got a number of friends who did energy internships this summer: one did a wind financing gig, another was in solar, a few at Chevron, Exxon-Mobil, and I think somewhere else....but don't remember where.

And I'd add finance companies to your GM list: Citi, B of A, M&T, BB&T, D&B, Thompson, AmEx, and others all recruit at Duke. (That's what I do!)

I've also seen plenty of roles in tech-y companies: Sprint, Apple, Microsoft, Intel.

I will point out that they don't all do rotations - sometimes you come into a company in a certain role, and then you get to move around as you get promoted.

Hope this is helpful.
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cul3s wrote:
So after you're through with the 1 year or 6 months or however long the rotational program is... are you guaranteed a position? or they can just say..."no openings, not the right fit, sorry" ?
and do we know what will our job be? or is it pretty much up in the air depends on how we do in the training time?


There is no guarantee that you will get a job. You have to earn one and people have to want you. That said its probably pretty uncommon for someone to not get an offer. Some will let you exit the program early if you find the right opportunity within the company. When you get hired it would be extremely rare to know what job you will be doing after your rotational program ends. Some people will get several offers within a company they can choose from...

Basically there is a huge variation between programs and what different people get for offers.
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Meh. hard to say - GM covers a LOT of industries and geography. I'd say check out the various schools' employment stats, and see if you can get a big picture. Here are some for Duke: https://www.fuqua.duke.edu/mba_recruitin ... tatistics/



fluidian wrote:
Any one know the expected compensation (salary + bonus) as well as the compensation trajectory of the GM programs?
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