Hi folks, A few questions about general management rotational programs: 1) Are there any backgrounds that tend to feed into GM programs? I got the sense from speaking with some current Fuqua students that really anyone can transition into GM, it's more about showing that you can learn easily. Is that what y'all have seen/heard? 2) It seems that most of them are in the manufacturing space (e.g. GE, John Deere). Is there a reason why? Is it just because it's easier to learn the skills associated with those programs in that type of industry? Thanks for your insight ac.

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General Management programs

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agold

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10 Dec 2008, 15:03

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lsuguy7

In the past 3 years Chevron has hired people from the following schools into their MBA program.

Michigan
Berkeley
University of Rochester
University North Carolina
Cornell University
Emory University
University of Chicago
Darden
University of Texas
Northwestern University
Duke University
Rice University
INSEAD
Wharton

A little suprising not to see HBS, Stanford (it's a california based company!), NYU, CBS, MIT, etc. There are a lot of big names left out, I don't know if it's because they don't accept a lot of people or because of lack of interest. Anyway for a financial development program I expected to see more big finance schools on that list.

People at the top finance schools tend to aim for "high finance" (investment banking, investment management, private equity, venture capital). For people shooting for these roles, corporate finance at an F500 is usually a 2nd or 3rd backup plan in case all else fails. You'll see a lot more interest in corporate finance positions at schools that are not known to be huge on "high finance".

kwam

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10 Dec 2008, 15:10

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agold

lsuguy7

Does it mean Booth is not a top Finance school?

Here there is a new course here in Chicago:
"Innovation in Energy Markets and Opportunities in Renewable Energy"
And I know many people wanting to go to the energy sector. There's one second year Brazilian who got a job at a PE focused on energy here in Chicago , he wasn't at PE before. I also know that there will be the "Clean Trek" next week, I don't know where they're going though.

lsuguy7

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11 Dec 2008, 12:33

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Yeah I guess the "true" finance schools are not as suprising as the fact that a California based energy company that didn't hire any Stanford MBA's into their rotational MBA program.

AlbertNTN

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13 Dec 2008, 18:06

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very useful threat...
just a question about the difference between GM and Strategic management specializations (learning concentration/job prospect). anyone wanna help? thanks

agold

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13 Dec 2008, 18:51

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I ran across an interesting article today that I wanted to share, and also I wanted to ask a few questions. The comments are far more entertaining and inquisitive than the content of the article:

https://blogs.ft.com/dearlucy/2008/02/ho ... -i-aphtml/

In fields like investment banking and consulting, it is obvious that you will be working alongside other top MBAs. You will likely come out of school and be reporting to other top MBAs who are a few years older than you are, and the path to advancement is pretty clear.

For general management rotational programs, it's also quite likely that you will be working with other top MBAs as they will have a formal program set up to introduce you to the company and it's culture. However, for normal general management positions (i.e. without a rotational program), how likely are you to be working with other top MBAs? I guess what I'm worried about is: what would you do if you are placed in the shoes of the MBA that is written about in the article? If you come out of HBS or Kellogg and you have a manager (and upper management) who are company veterans, 50+ years old, and do not hold MBAs - it is quite likely that you will come across as an arrogant, energetic, young whippersnapper. This is not a pleasant situation to be in. I only really find this to be a concern for your first position out of school - as your first job out of school can be a bit daunting, and you want to make sure you're getting into a company where you can advance and that will value you. Is this situation more common in Europe or Asia (where the MBA is not as common)?

olive

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02 Jan 2009, 17:49

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agold

This is a good question. I also wonder how likely is it that if you are in a rotational GM program that you are with those that are right out of undergrad? I do have a feeling that in many industries, even in the US, you're going to get that young arrogant stereotype if you come from a top MBA school and are younger than 30 or so. However, there are many stereotypes young adults in the workforce have to battle at any given situation. But still, I would like to avoid getting a position that new undergrad grads are getting - if that's even possible (in GM/strategy or brand management). For example, at my company, many people with a masters, MBA and others, come in at the level underneath me.

agold

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02 Jan 2009, 18:22

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I believe Big 4 accounting firms, Tech consulting firms, etc. are notorious for starting MBAs (typically from lower-ranked schools) a rung or two above undergrads because they have no idea how to utilize their talents.

You should not have to worry about this very much in any reputable GM rotational programs. You will be doing your rotations with other MBAs.

When I started in Big 4 accounting, I was one of the few Economics majors they hired. They hired a guy with a Bachelors and Masters in Accounting alongside me, and he got paid $2K/year more. Sad.

olive

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02 Jan 2009, 18:32

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Okay that's good to hear. I'm in tech consulting so that makes sense. Still something I'm paranoid about though.

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02 Jan 2009, 20:23

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So after you're through with the 1 year or 6 months or however long the rotational program is... are you guaranteed a position? or they can just say..."no openings, not the right fit, sorry" ?
and do we know what will our job be? or is it pretty much up in the air depends on how we do in the training time?

refurb

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02 Jan 2009, 22:12

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cul3s

I asked my friend who is doing a rotation in a mid-size pharma company this exact question.

The answer? It depends.

It's something you need to ask before you start! He said some companies are really vague about it. If they say "when you finish your rotation, you'll be on our radar screen" it's not a good thing!!

RF

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02 Jan 2009, 22:58

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Thats good to know RF..so people won't make the mistake of going into some program and then getting themselves screwed over.
AAu, do you also happen to know if any of those GM recruiting companies in your school take career-switchers? or do they mostly require related work exp?

aaudetat

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03 Jan 2009, 07:44

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cul3s

AAu, do you also happen to know if any of those GM recruiting companies in your school take career-switchers? or do they mostly require related work exp?

Oh no. In some ways, I think that GM is the easiest to recruit for. First, the GM companies (at least at Duke) seem less obsessed with knowing exactly how many pizza parties and company presentations you've gone to. (Don't get me wrong; you need to go to this stuff and meet people, but it's just not the same as brand or ib.) Second, the interviews tend to be more general and therefore easier to prepare for. But to your question, GM companies are also very open to many different backgrounds. I've got friends who were engineers, bankers, military, etc...all going into GM. It depends on the company, of course, but it's all doable.

Related work experience helps, but is not always necessary. Some companies might insist on engineers or marketers or something, but the ones I'm familiar with don't seem to very often.

unhedged

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04 Jan 2009, 22:18

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agold

Depending on the type of work and the hiring pattern of the group, I can confirm this to be true. Either they are all MBAs and choose to continue that pattern or MBAs are grouped in with everyone else.

fluidian

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05 Jan 2009, 15:30

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Any one know the expected compensation (salary + bonus) as well as the compensation trajectory of the GM programs?

captainplanet

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12 Jan 2009, 23:02

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While it's my understanding that the progression through GM is a bit less predictable/structured than that of say, IB, does anyone know a good way to jump into GM at a high technology (i.e. Silicon Valley/Microsoft) company? I know in the stickied IB thread someone was explaining how investment banking gives you a head start into business (2-3 years of IB is competitive with 7-8 years of GM?) - does this hold true for industries outside of finance, or would engineering work be considered more valuable?

On a side note: I'm a UG student right now, so I don't have much to bring to these discussions yet, but I'd like to thank you guys for all the advice - this site has been invaluable to me in researching possible majors/careers :-D

. You guys are champs, for sure.

riverripper

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13 Jan 2009, 00:03

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Plug for Kellogg's career report which I have found to be the most detailed of any around...they also have over a decades worth on the web so you can see trends if you really want to go nuts. GM programs aren't going to pay what MC is going to pay but on an hour per hour and lifestyle basis, I definitely think they are the more lucrative one. I know I would rather work on average 50 hours a week and be home most nights. Traveling occasionally is a lot more enjoyable than traveling weekly.

https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/career_employer/employment/index.htm

Paradosso

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13 Jan 2009, 03:54

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riverripper

To be honest from my discussions with alums, career center folks, and professors...the idea that MC and IB will fast track your career ahead of people who join a company straight out is kind of misleading. Many MC and IB people do well when the leave, however they really wont be true general managers. MC will end up in strategy functions, they have never implemented anything and in reality their view of business is on the strategy side not so much well rounded with operations and leadership skills. IB people depending what they do will more likely end up in a finance, M&A, treasury, or something along those lines. Their skill sets while incredible are once again not set up the same as someone who did a rotational program or even just a straight GM role. I have talked to numberous alums in fairly high positions within different companies and they say that their friends who went the other way often do get great positions but they often aren't in the fortune 100 companies that have highly developed management programs.

The advice I have gotten time and time again, is don't listen to the hype about MC and IB being something to slingshot your career. If you enter a GM program at a top company (pretty much the only type that are going to pay the 100k+ salary needed to attract top tier MBA grads), then you are going to have incredible opportunities for advancement. Those programs are set up to provide you not only a great foundation for your career but plenty of exposure to and mentorship from top level management. A lot of these companies value loyalty still, so if you come straight out of school and have that recognition then its going to help you along. So if a company you really could see yourself at for a career then definitely think hard before entering a different industry...if you do get into that company then its a good chance you will be siloed into a function based on your MC/IB experience.

GM programs arent for everyone and while there are a lot out there they are usually fairly small. GE is huge at 125ish but that still pales compared to McKinsey. There are others that are 4-10 a year and some of those even have the C-level executives do interviews for final rounds. Some industries value IB or MC experience more than others too, so find out how your target views those skills. Is it an industry that relies heavily on financing skills and would look very positively on IB or is it more operations based? I mean if you want PE or something like Real Estate then obviously IB is the route to go but if you are looking at something like a widely diversified company then they probably have a specialized program that will do you a whole lot more good.

Besides as you can see these days there are going to be times when certain skills may flood the market at which point there is very little value in them. Would you rather have skills developed during a GM rotational program and that on your resume right now or just another one of those thousands of IB'ers looking for a gig?

I am not exaggerating as I say this is one of the best posts ever to appear on GMATClub. Everyone should hang it in his room!

terp26

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13 Jan 2009, 08:25

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"Steve Canale is the manager of Recruiting & Staffing Services at General Electric (GE ). GE hires 150 to 200 MBAs globally each year, a relatively small number for a company that's located in about 100 countries and employs more than 320,000 people. However, Canale, who works out of corporate headquarters in Fairfield, Conn., notes that a large chunk of MBAs wind up at GE after gaining experience at a consulting firm. "

From Businessweek.Com
https://www.businessweek.com/bschools/co ... 8_4892.htm

So at least with the GE leadership program, it does seem to appear to be a viable exit strategy.

agold

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13 Jan 2009, 10:25

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riverripper

The advice I have gotten time and time again, is don't listen to the hype about MC and IB being something to slingshot your career. If you enter a GM program at a top company (pretty much the only type that are going to pay the 100k+ salary needed to attract top tier MBA grads), then you are going to have incredible opportunities for advancement.

Can you elaborate on this a bit more? Where could you expect to be 5, 10, 15 years out? Both compensation and responsibility wise?

captainplanet

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13 Jan 2009, 15:30

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Thank you for the incredibly insightful post, river. +1 for sure.

When you're talking about strategy positions opposed to "straight GM," how far do the two differentiate? Is strategy referring to corporate strategies (i.e. mergers, acquisitions) strictly, whereas GM would be more directly, or solely, involved with product development/production?

I guess I'll go do more research on some of the rotational development programs, as I totally I agree that the quality of life seems far better in GM than Finance. As much as I've enjoyed the few econ/finance classes (I know, not much to measure with) I've taken, I don't think it'd be wise to give up the social interaction and other life factors that you have to compromise by going into those huge NY firms.