M14 #19 : Retired Discussions [Locked]
Check GMAT Club Decision Tracker for the Latest School Decision Releases http://gmatclub.com/AppTrack

 It is currently 19 Jan 2017, 13:24

### GMAT Club Daily Prep

#### Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

# Events & Promotions

###### Events & Promotions in June
Open Detailed Calendar

# M14 #19

 new topic post reply Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics
Author Message
Manager
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 86
Followers: 2

Kudos [?]: 174 [0], given: 1

M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

02 Feb 2009, 21:06
2
This post was
BOOKMARKED
Among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish-line, 4 were Italians and 8 represented Telefonica team. How many cyclists who represented Telefonica team and finished in the top ten were not Italians?

1. 2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team
2. Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both

Source: GMAT Club Tests - hardest GMAT questions
SVP
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 1926
Schools: CBS, Kellogg
Followers: 23

Kudos [?]: 1011 [0], given: 1

Re: GMATCLUB M14#19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

02 Feb 2009, 21:27
1
This post was
BOOKMARKED
topmbaseeker wrote:
Among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish-line, 4 were Italians and 8 represented Telefonica team. How many cyclists who represented Telefonica team and finished in the top ten were not Italians?

1. 2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team
2. Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both

(C) 2008 GMAT Club - m14#19

* Statement (1) ALONE is sufficient, but Statement (2) ALONE is not sufficient
* Statement (2) ALONE is sufficient, but Statement (1) ALONE is not sufficient
* BOTH statements TOGETHER are sufficient, but NEITHER statement ALONE is sufficient
* EACH statement ALONE is sufficient
* Statements (1) and (2) TOGETHER are NOT sufficient

A is the best

10=4+8-x, x=2, so the cyclists who were not Italians are 8-2=6, suff
_________________
CEO
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 3589
Concentration: Entrepreneurship, Other
Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2011
GMAT 1: 750 Q50 V40
Followers: 547

Kudos [?]: 3558 [4] , given: 360

Re: GMATCLUB M14#19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

03 Feb 2009, 01:14
4
This post received
KUDOS
Expert's post
D

Let's imagine how it would be:

[X] - unknown cyclist.
[X] - Italian
[X] - Telefonica team's cyclist.

[X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X] - 4 of 10 are Italians
[X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X] - 8 of 10 are Telefonica cyclists.

In this example,
2 cyclists represent neither Italians, nor Telefonica ([X]-[X] combinations)
4 cyclists are Italians and represents Telefonica ([X]-[X] combinations)
4 cyclists aren't Italians and represents Telefonica ([X]-[X] combinations)

1) Now, let's consider first condition: 2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team
We should cover 2 not Telefonica cyclists:
[X][X]...................................
[X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
It is obvious that other 2 Italians belongs Telefonica team (there are no other options). Therefore, the number of cyclists who represented Telefonica team and were not Italians is 8-2=6. Sufficient.

2) Now, let's consider second condition: Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both
And again we should cover 2 not Telefonica cyclists. Otherwise, not Italian and not Telefonica cyclist would be possible contradicting second condition:
[X][X]...................................
[X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X]
The same reasoning as for first condition. Sufficient.

I've tried to make my reasoning as clear as I could. In fact, it is fast 10-20 sec method.
_________________

HOT! GMAT TOOLKIT 2 (iOS) / GMAT TOOLKIT (Android) - The OFFICIAL GMAT CLUB PREP APP, a must-have app especially if you aim at 700+ | PrepGame

Senior Manager
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 396
GMAT 1: 690 Q47 V38
Followers: 2

Kudos [?]: 35 [0], given: 5

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

16 Mar 2010, 21:37
If among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish line, 4 were Italians and 8 represented Telefonica team, how many cyclists who represented Telefonica team and finished in the top ten were not Italians?

1. 2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team.
2. Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both.

1) The statement is a bit cryptic, but what it means is - 2 Italian's were not a part of T and the other 2 were(4 Italians won in top 10) : 8-2= 6 T's Not I's
2) Use Set Theory: n(aUb)=n(a) + n(b) - n(aOb) : O=Intersection. We are given n(a), n(b) and n(aUb) - Calc n(aOb) : n(aOb)=2 => b(only)= n(b)-n(aOb)=6
Intern
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 6
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 28 [6] , given: 1

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

22 Apr 2010, 06:15
6
This post received
KUDOS
I = Italian
NI = Not Italian
T = represents Telefonica team
NT = does not represent Telefonica
Attachments

sets.JPG [ 39.85 KiB | Viewed 7876 times ]

Intern
Joined: 18 Dec 2009
Posts: 3
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

22 Apr 2010, 07:26
Out of 10 memebers

4 were Italian 8 represents telefonica

from condition 1

10=2(I)+2(I+T)+6T

6 members represents telefonica and are not italians

from condition 2

only one possibility

Each members either italian or Represents telefonica or both

I I I+T I+T T T T T T T

I think answer is D
Manager
Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 89
Location: United States
GMAT 1: Q V
Followers: 2

Kudos [?]: 63 [1] , given: 5

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

22 Apr 2010, 09:44
1
This post received
KUDOS
This is being made more complicated than it needs to be. You don't need any formulas.

(1) We already know 8 of the 10 are part of Telefonica. (1) tells us the other two were both italian, so that acounts for all 10. The other two italians had to represent Telefonica. Suff
(2) Basicallay the same as (1). If all 10 were italian, part of Telephinica or both, then the 2 non-telefonica people had to be italian. Suff
Intern
Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 16
Schools: UCLA, USC
WE 1: 3 Yr at leading SAAS company
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 6 [0], given: 0

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

22 Apr 2010, 09:45
Ans is D.

Reason:

Stmt 1 suffice that 2 are italians & not in Telefonica team. so 6 Telefonica team members are not italian & in top ten.

to Prove Stmt 2:

p(AUB)=p(A)+p(B) -p(AintersectionB)

P(AUB)=10
P(A)=8
P(B)=4
thus p(AintersectionB)=2
which gives the number of italians not in telefonica & thus we can conclude that 6 telefonica are not italian.

Thus D is right Ans.

-Jvaidya
Manager
Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 89
Location: United States
GMAT 1: Q V
Followers: 2

Kudos [?]: 63 [0], given: 5

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

22 Apr 2010, 12:33
ksharma12 wrote:
For Statement 2,

what is stopping me from saying that there are 4 italians that are part of the 8 telefonica team, and there are 2 who finished top ten who are non telefonica?

Because the original statement says "Among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish-line, 4 were Italians and 8 represented Telefonica team." There are only 4 italians. If there were 4 that were part of the telefonica team, and 2 that were not, then there would be 6 italians altogether.
Intern
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 28
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 9 [0], given: 0

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

22 Apr 2010, 15:21
D , each statement alone sufficient as
1) 2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team
out of 4 , 2 were were both telefonica and italian ,so 8-2 = 6 were solely Telefonica
sufficient

2) Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both

let both be x
4+8-x = 10
x=2
8-2 =6
suffcient
Director
Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 591
Concentration: Entrepreneurship, Finance
Followers: 18

Kudos [?]: 662 [0], given: 20

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

22 Apr 2010, 17:30
its more of a 2-elements (Italian & Telefonica) set question.

from stmt2:
2 strictly Italians;
2 both Italians and Telefonica,
and 6 Telefonica- non Italians.
_________________

KUDOS me if you feel my contribution has helped you.

Manager
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 71
Location: INDIA
Followers: 2

Kudos [?]: 9 [0], given: 4

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

22 Apr 2010, 19:36
Ans:D From S1: I=4 out of this 2 Italian. so, 2I+XT+2IT=10 so 6T

S2:Total=I+T-IT ,10=4+8-IT,now same as S1 we can find ans.
_________________

MBA (Mind , Body and Attitude )

Manager
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 184
Followers: 3

Kudos [?]: 176 [1] , given: 9

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

27 Apr 2010, 06:15
1
This post received
KUDOS
Friends,
I am newbie here so sorry if i am acting stupid by replying this. In my openion B will be the correct answer. (2) says that Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both. With help of 2) you can say that 10 winners = 4 italians + 8 Telephonica i.e., 2 are both italians and Teliphonica. so, 2 alone is sufficiant. Now, (1) says that "2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team" but it does not say that there is no third category of winners for examples french, or german. so (1) alone is not enough. Please correct me if i am wrong
Manager
Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 89
Location: United States
GMAT 1: Q V
Followers: 2

Kudos [?]: 63 [1] , given: 5

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

29 Apr 2010, 12:57
1
This post received
KUDOS
amitjash wrote:
Friends,
I am newbie here so sorry if i am acting stupid by replying this. In my openion B will be the correct answer. (2) says that Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both. With help of 2) you can say that 10 winners = 4 italians + 8 Telephonica i.e., 2 are both italians and Teliphonica. so, 2 alone is sufficiant.

Now, (1) says that "2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team" but it does not say that there is no third category of winners for examples french, or german. so (1) alone is not enough. Please correct me if i am wrong

Welcome! Do not apologize. Questions are the best kinds of posts.

Do not concern yourself with other nationalities. There are other nationalities of course, as there are only 4 italians, there must be 6 non-italians, which could be french, german, etc. If there were 10 finishers, and 8 of those 10 represented Telefonica, and 2 did not represent Telefonica, then that accounts for all 10. The statement says that 2 italians did not rep Telefonica, and since there are only 4 italians total, the other 2 did rep Telefonica. I hope this helps. Please continue to ask questions.
Forum Moderator
Status: mission completed!
Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 1426
GPA: 3.77
Followers: 180

Kudos [?]: 853 [2] , given: 621

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

28 Oct 2010, 07:52
2
This post received
KUDOS
Attachment:

2010-10-28_195326.png [ 4.41 KiB | Viewed 6152 times ]

2) is so tricky! - it is just saying that there are no such guys who are not italians and not represent telefonica , so you must take it as =0.

Here is my representation, where in blue are calculations based on 1) and in green calculations based on 2).
_________________

Audaces fortuna juvat!

GMAT Club Premium Membership - big benefits and savings

SVP
Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 1672
Location: United States (IN)
Concentration: Strategy, Technology
Followers: 33

Kudos [?]: 514 [0], given: 36

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

26 Apr 2011, 04:44
10 = I + T - both

So T - both = ?

(1)

I - both = 2

=> both = 4 - 2 = 2

So T - both = 8 - 2 = 6

(1) is sufficient

(2)

10 = 4 + 8 - both

=> both = 2

So only T = 8 -2 = 6

(2) is sufficient

Answer - D
_________________

Formula of Life -> Achievement/Potential = k * Happiness (where k is a constant)

GMAT Club Premium Membership - big benefits and savings

Intern
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 9
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 1 [1] , given: 3

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

10 Jan 2012, 00:30
1
This post received
KUDOS
If among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish line, 4 were Italians and 8 represented Telefonica team, how many cyclists who represented Telefonica team and finished in the top ten were not Italians?

2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team.
Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both.
(C) 2008 GMAT Club

How can we assume that in the top 10 there were no non-italian AND non-telefonica participants?source is gmat club tests m14...
Intern
Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 39
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 53 [0], given: 9

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

30 Apr 2012, 06:06
Given: Total = 10; Italian = 4; Telefonica = 8
Only Tele = Tele - Both
So, rephrase question is: what is Both?

We can use the following:
Total - Neither = Italian + Tele - Both
Italian = Only Italian + Both => Both = Italian - Only Italian

So, if Only Italian is known, we can find Both and subsequently can find Only Tele.

S1: Only Italian = 2: So Both = Italian - Only Italian = 4 - 2 => Both = 2
Therefore: Only Tele = Tele - Both = 8 - 2 = 6
So, S1 is sufficient.

S2: If Total = Italian + Tele - Both; Neither = 0
Using Total - Neither = Italian + Tele - Both
=> 10 - 0 = 8 + 4 - Both => Both = 2
So, S2 is sufficient.

Correct answer is D.
Math Expert
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 36567
Followers: 7081

Kudos [?]: 93196 [1] , given: 10553

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

14 May 2012, 07:53
1
This post received
KUDOS
Expert's post
If among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish line, 4 were Italians and 8 represented Telefonica team, how many cyclists who represented Telefonica team and finished in the top ten were not Italians?

(1) 2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team --> since 2 Italians did not represent Telefonica team then remaining 2 Italians did represent Telefonica team, hence out of 8 cyclists who represented Telefonica team 8-2=6 were not Italians. Sufficient.

(2) Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both --> Total=Italians +Telefonica-Both --> 10=4+8-Both --> Both=2. So, 2 cyclists represented Telefonica and were Italians, which means that 8-2=6 cyclists represented Telefonica but were not Italians. Sufficient.

Answer: D.
_________________
Manager
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 162
Location: India
GMAT Date: 05-23-2015
GPA: 3.45
Followers: 3

Kudos [?]: 104 [0], given: 54

Re: M14 #19 [#permalink]

### Show Tags

01 May 2014, 04:16
Let I and T denotes Italians and Telefonica.

Given that,

I U T = 10
T= 8
I = 4

Solved using table method.

Answer (D).
Attachments

Diagram.docx [11.93 KiB]
Downloaded 40 times

 To download please login or register as a user

Re: M14 #19   [#permalink] 01 May 2014, 04:16
Similar topics Replies Last post
Similar
Topics:
9 m14#37 19 18 May 2009, 15:32
19 M14#10 19 18 Mar 2009, 12:41
5 M14 #18 19 02 Feb 2009, 20:55
6 M14 #27 19 13 Nov 2008, 16:55
18 M14 #13 25 11 Nov 2008, 20:40
Display posts from previous: Sort by

# M14 #19

 new topic post reply Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics

Moderator: Bunuel

 Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group and phpBB SEO Kindly note that the GMAT® test is a registered trademark of the Graduate Management Admission Council®, and this site has neither been reviewed nor endorsed by GMAC®.