Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! : The B-School Applications

billyjeans

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

03 Oct 2009, 18:56

lakai777 wrote:

Went up to Stanford for a school visit and was throughly impressed with their faculty and their new curriculum. the takeaway i got from Stanford was that they're a CEO factory and place much more emphasis on graduates to go out and make a global difference, rather than being just a well read and talented employee. i loved the fact that they emphasized following your passion and giving you the tools you need to go out and achieve your dreams.

contrast that with Kellogg. I went to their info session later in the day in the silicon valley, and I must say, I was unimpressed. i think the problem was that i attended a session that was tailored for their high tech silicon valley audience. every question I asked which geared away from marketing and/or high tech, was replied with an answer that veered back to how great they were in marketing and great for high tech. marketing this marketing that. marketing marketing marketing. okay i get it. i asked about non profits and global affect, public policy and business partnerships and their history with societal impact. their answer: we have a great marketing program. don't get me wrong, i certainly believe Kellogg is a top school, i'd be a fool to not believe so, but at the end of the day, it seems that Kellogg is a school that spits out very well trained and educated employees and operators (probably the best in the biz), but not game changers and CEOs.

So i feel like schools like Stanford and HBS are just in totally different levels than Kellogg and other schools. Stanford and HBS know they have the cream of the crop, and gear their programs around becoming a springboard for their students to achieve great things, as opposed to Kellogg which knows they have extremely highly capable people who are looking to expand their experience to advance their careers.

this has caused me to broaden my search of schools to overseas and i've now added London Business School, INSEAD, and Oxford as possible schools to apply to, with Kellogg falling on the list.

anyone else?

To be fair, not every school should aim at become a CEO factory, its simply unrealistic. There are plenty of CEOs born outside of H/S. You experience at an info section certainly does not equate to the quality of a school. The choice is yours, but you should not make haste judgement.

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

04 Oct 2009, 01:06

billyjeans,

you are absolutely right. i wasn't trying to imply that all schools should be CEO focused and that one should dismiss Kellogg simply from an info session. I was trying to condense my experience into a short post and I guess it didn't come out as well as i had hoped. so let me clarify.

Kellogg certainly has its fair share of CEOs and regardless of how many CEOs come out of school, the potential applicant should make his decision based upon student fit and expectations of the program. I want to reiterate the fact that i believe kellogg is one of the best schools in the world. but just as every school has a particular reputation, the take away i had from the info session at kellogg was that their entire school revolves around their marketing program, and the majority of their students simply want a great set of alumni and an mba to check the box to springboard them to a better job. nothing wrong with that whatsoever. i'm sure that represents 99.9% of all applicants of all schools.

what i saw at kellogg was that they attract extremely fine talent, their alumni are quite impressive, and their student experience what essentially was described as a 2 year "summer camp" where they learned lots of cool things, did lots of fun activities, and left with a great set of friends and with new opportunities ahead. for most, that's exactly what they're looking for, and again, there's nothing wrong with that at all.

but for me, i'm looking for something more than just a certificate, friends, and an alumni network. so right or wrong, kellogg dropped on my list. it doesn't mean that i'm definitely not going to apply, its just not on my definitely WILL apply list.

(besides, i don't think they'll miss me anyway. 90% of the people applying to kellogg are probably more talented and qualified than me anyway)

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

05 Oct 2009, 12:28

lakai777 wrote:

i certainly believe Kellogg is a top school, i'd be a fool to not believe so, but at the end of the day, it seems that Kellogg is a school that spits out very well trained and educated employees and operators (probably the best in the biz), but not game changers and CEOs.

So i feel like schools like Stanford and HBS are just in totally different levels than Kellogg and other schools. Stanford and HBS know they have the cream of the crop, and gear their programs around becoming a springboard for their students to achieve great things, as opposed to Kellogg which knows they have extremely highly capable people who are looking to expand their experience to advance their careers.

this has caused me to broaden my search of schools to overseas and i've now added London Business School, INSEAD, and Oxford as possible schools to apply to, with Kellogg falling on the list.

anyone else?

Hey man, that's fit, and dont let anyone tell you that information sessions dont convey a small bit of that. Not everyone needs the obscure class visit, lunch in the cafeteria, “University” sweatshirt from the gift shop or whatever other dog and pony show is tossed your way to assess this fit. Defintiely reach out to a few veterans at the school - I know an ex-military person or two who graduated recently if you want to talk to someone, and I believe there is a vet here on GMATclub currently at Kellogg who can give you some perspective on the school. In the end, YOU are the one dropping $200K and 2 years, and if it the school doesn't seem right to you, it wont be.

From my perspectitve, I got the exact same vibe about the place - something about it was just a bit less serious than what I wanted. I can't put my thumb on it, but I think I share your feeling. Talking to those friends and attending an information session only validated that feeling. It is an eternal top-10 school, places well in EVERYTHING, and apparently is a damn fun time - but I really dont see me fitting in the place. We should all be so lucky to elimate top-10 schools from our wish list, but I'm not applying there either. The biggest reason for that, though, is the fact that I have no desire to live in Chicago.

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

05 Oct 2009, 12:50

RonMexico wrote:

From my perspectitve, I got the exact same vibe about the place - something about it was just a bit less serious than what I wanted.

thanks for the support brother. I didn't make the "summer camp" analogy lightly. That was literally the first words out of my mouth during my recap phone call to the gf.

again, it was obvious that their alumns were super successful, and that they attracted top talent. but since the group represented was so one sided, and their emphasis on only one subject (marketing) and how much fun they like to have, i left the session extremely torn between just scratching it off my list, and trying to convince myself that i just went to a skewed info session.

and i gotta say, just for everyone's benefit who's reading this, their info session's structure in itself was horrible. no structure, and just a straight q&a session that literally had no direction. a 3 min "welcome to kellogg" video, a 10 min powerpoint, and then an hour and half of questions that had no flow or direction. the only reason i know that kellogg is a top school is because the magazines/newspapers say so and the people on the panel worked for great companies. i gotta say, my high school ASB had better logistics and meeting structure planning than the reps from kellogg.

but as i said before, who knows. with the reputation that kellogg has, this could easily be an outlier and a specific type of info session setup up for a specific type of audience, which i wasn't a member of. still doesn't excuse their logistics planning, but you can't base a program on the fact that one of their reps didn't put up a single sign pointing to where the meeting was held and throngs of attendants wandered around until one of the applicants (not reps) had to herd them in.

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

17 Oct 2009, 19:56

the thread has been quiet for about 2 weeks. was wondering how everyone is doing.

i just took the GMAT yesterday and i got a score that I'm happy with. Now, i'm really looking forward to starting my applications.

Anyone else care to update?

gregarious

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

17 Oct 2009, 21:13

Great job on the GMAT, definitely a good time to start prepping for R2. Even though I planned on being well prepared, all R1 apps were turned in on deadline day, although I'm pretty happy with the essays. Wharton, Kellogg, and Booth all got submitted on time. Recs though were another story and Booth/Kellogg are still incomplete as a result. Adcoms have been good about responding to this and hopefully it'll be completed this upcoming week.

I just got back from a short trip to Boston and Chicago where I checked out MIT, interviewed in Evanston, and went to the Booth Live admissions event. A few takeaways from the week:

1) First interview was rough, didn't feel there were any glaring errors, but lots of things that I felt like I left out because I rambled on. Mock interviews for future attempts will definitely help.
2) Booth's event definitely showed the school's importance on academic rigor and developing a analytical and critical thought process. The facilities were extremely impressive.
3) This whole process is so stressful and overloading that sometimes you just have to take a step back. After scrambling to submit on time, I was stressing big time when several recs weren't turned in. I'm taking a breather this weekend and am confident that what's not in my control will work out.

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interview after action report [#permalink]

18 Oct 2009, 13:52

Thanks for the support gregarious.

can you post an after action or debrief regarding the interview interview experience? i've had only one "official" job interview my entire life and thus, not a very familiar territory. i'd like to know how the whole process worked and what types of questions were asked. did you meet at the interviewer's house? at a coffee shop? at a designated interview office location? how long did it last? what did he ask about? what surprised you? what did you learn from the process that you wish you could have done differently if you could do it again? standard questions so that i can mentally prepare for the interview.

but also:

as a military candidate, was there any particular type of angle or questioning that you felt could give us an edge and how do you feel we can take advantage of that?

thanks.

i would appreciate anyone else who can chime in on their interview experiences, and especially if they have tidbits of wisdom regarding particular ways vets can posture or frame their experience effectively.

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

18 Oct 2009, 21:01

No problem, once I sort out the remaining recs over the next day or two then I'll post more about how the Kellogg interview went. In the meantime, hope everyone here keeps chipping away at those apps, don't let the deadline sneak up on you!

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

19 Oct 2009, 19:21

Just found this forum. Have been trolling the businessweek forum for a while.

Any US military hear back about HBS R1 interview invites? All hope has been lost from all the candidates on the HBS board but I haven't seen any military post any results. Just curious. Thanks.

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

19 Oct 2009, 20:25

leatherneck,

welcome to the forum. i have found it extremely helpful in my gmat studies as well as general school application information.

i'm not sure if i saw any round one HBS guys here. i know RonMexico was, but he shifted to R2, as did i.

great to see more mil applicants here. hope to see you post some more soon.

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

20 Oct 2009, 07:13

Thanks. I am actually in Chicago today. I flew in from DC yesterday and visited Kellogg. Great visit, different from other visits. Not sure how to explain that but will try to articulate it later. Today I'm at Booth. Tonight I fly out to Austin to visit McCombs and then catch a flight Wed night to LA to check out UCLA. Looking forward to my future visits. All total I am applying to: HBS (round 1), Wharton (round 1), MIT (round 1), McCombs (round 1 equivalent), SMU (round 1 equivalent), Kellogg (round 2),
Booth (round 2), UCLA (round 2). A lot of apps you say... Yes indeed, but I am going to bschool somewhere just need to convince my top choices to admit me. Good luck to you all.

Posted from my mobile device

lakai777

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

20 Oct 2009, 12:03

USMCCommO wrote:

Thanks. I am actually in Chicago today. I flew in from DC yesterday and visited Kellogg. Great visit, different from other visits. Not sure how to explain that but will try to articulate it later. Today I'm at Booth. Tonight I fly out to Austin to visit McCombs and then catch a flight Wed night to LA to check out UCLA. Looking forward to my future visits. All total I am applying to: HBS (round 1), Wharton (round 1), MIT (round 1), McCombs (round 1 equivalent), SMU (round 1 equivalent), Kellogg (round 2),
Booth (round 2), UCLA (round 2). A lot of apps you say... Yes indeed, but I am going to bschool somewhere just need to convince my top choices to admit me. Good luck to you all.

Posted from my mobile device

i am really interested in your experience at Kellogg. I posted, on the previous page, my experience with one of their info sessions in silicon valley, and RonMexico seemed to back up my impression with some of his experiences. I wanted to know if you got a distinctly different vibe from Kellogg than we did because you went to their actual campus, and what your thoughts were.

fyi, i'm from LA, so if you need someone to show you around town or something, feel free to let me know. a devil dog never lets one of his own, involuntarily drink alone.

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

23 Oct 2009, 05:58

USMCCommO wrote:

Thanks. I am actually in Chicago today. I flew in from DC yesterday and visited Kellogg. Great visit, different from other visits. Not sure how to explain that but will try to articulate it later. Today I'm at Booth. Tonight I fly out to Austin to visit McCombs and then catch a flight Wed night to LA to check out UCLA. Looking forward to my future visits. All total I am applying to: HBS (round 1), Wharton (round 1), MIT (round 1), McCombs (round 1 equivalent), SMU (round 1 equivalent), Kellogg (round 2),
Booth (round 2), UCLA (round 2). A lot of apps you say... Yes indeed, but I am going to bschool somewhere just need to convince my top choices to admit me. Good luck to you all.

Posted from my mobile device

Nice quality spread there - much like you, I've got a plate of 7 schools myself. Good luck - I'm sure somebody will bite.

I wanted to put in a plug for Tuck - they have been AWESOME to veteran applicants this year and offer a real impressive GI Bill package if you are eligible. They are looking to increase their veteran presence, the enrollment manager is a service academy grad, and there are a few vets there you can talk to if you need. I visited this past summer, they really rolled out the red carpet for my family and I, and interviewed me on the spot. No other school came close to their helpfullness.

Defintiely visit Hanover to see if it is for you, but looking at your school list, I would give Tuck a lot of thought as an addition.

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

24 Oct 2009, 15:46

Wanted to post a Kellogg impression:
Campus Visit seems to be very student and prospective driven. The only reason I had a personal experience was because of previous email contacts and scheduling with former Marines at the school. I had arranged to visit two afternoon classes with Marines that are first years. I also had lunch with them. If it weren't for that I would have had a horrible experience. This lends to the idea that the school itself is not necessarily administration-driven but student-driven. This was a fact that my hosts brought up while I was there. The ability of the student body to influence change in the curriculum and the school is phenomenal. They mentioned a recent change that was brought up as a problem and corrected within two weeks.
I think the campus visit hiccups really test a prospective's desire to get a great experience. Either they intend that or the admissions office doesn't care. I hope it's not the latter. The only form of structure with my visit was the requirement to wear a purple lanyard with a "Visitor" tag. Not a name tag... a anonymous "Visitor" tag. Again, not a great taste from that but overall from my interaction with current students it was positive.
To the information session subject though I thought Kellogg's info session in D.C. was great. Enjoyed it and there were great questions and great conversations with the alumni that put Kellogg into a positive light.

Hope I shed some light. Hope all are well.

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

26 Oct 2009, 10:40

Thought this was a really interesting article.

Excerpt:
"In Israel, every employer knows what it means to have been a company commander in the infantry or tanks or to have served in certain tech-oriented intelligence units. In the US, many interviewers would not know what to do with someone like Brian Tice, a U.S. Marine Corps captain when he decided that he wanted to make the transition to business.

By that time Tice was thirty, he had completed five deployments--including assignments in Haiti and Afghanistan--and was in the middle of his sixth, in Iraq. He wrote his essays for his applications to Stanford's MBA program on a laptop in a burnt-out Iraqi building near the Al Asad Air Base, in the violent Al Anbar Province of western Iraq. He had to complete his application at odd hours because his missions always took place in the middle of the night.

Tice interviewed with Stanford between sniper operations and raids, and had to cut the interview short when mortars landed nearby."
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2 ... 024798.php

"The military is also much better than college for inculcating young leaders with a sense of what he calls social range: “The people you are serving with come from all walks of life; the military is this great purely merit-based institution in our society. Learning how to deal with anybody—wherever they come from—is something that I leverage today in business when dealing with my suppliers and customers."

"This gulf between business and the military is symptomatic of a wider divide between America’s military and civilian communities, which was identified by the leadership of West Point over a decade ago. In the summer of 1998, Lieutenant General Daniel Christman, the superintendent of West Point, and General John Abizaid, commandant at West Point, were driving on the New Jersey turnpike and pulled off at a roadside food and gas station mall for a quick meal at Denny’s. Despite the clearly visible stars on their Class B green army uniforms, the hostess smiled and enthusiastically expressed her gratitude to Generals Christman and Abizaid for the cleanliness of the public parks. She thought they were staff of the parks department."
https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33465046/ns ... ss/page/2/

here's the interview
https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp ... 5#33469615

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

26 Oct 2009, 18:07

Nice articles, I've read some similar ones that talk about the disconnect between society at large and the military. I'm finding out through this bschool admissions process though that while corporations may not necessarily understand what we do, there is a willingness to see potential value in it. Going along with what I posted about interviews before, I think this dichotomy is our greatest strength and weakness as a military applicant. Of course, I hope to be later judged on my own merits and what I do during my internship and full time employment, but right now the military is the dominant part of my profile. Eventually though, all those years of service might be condensed down into a single line on the resume . . .

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

28 Oct 2009, 02:32

I think one of the greatest misconceptions corporate America has about veterans is paraphrased by this statement, "We have a very flat organization that is not hierarchal. Tell me how you would function in this environment." The suggestion is that the military consists predominantly of transactional leadership and that solid organizational structure is needed for vets to perform. In my experience this is very far from the truth especially for those who spend most of their time outside the wire and/or conduct FID, UW, or other non-conventional operations.

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Re: Calling all US Military Fall 2010 Applicants! [#permalink]

28 Oct 2009, 02:32