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# FAFSA Strategies

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Current Student
Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Posts: 348
Schools: Fuqua '11
Followers: 5

Kudos [?]: 38 [0], given: 0

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  29 Jan 2009, 15:26
mbamatric wrote:

2) Maxing out contributions to IRAs. Since IRA balances aren't factored into your net worth calculation, I'm thinking it would be beneficial to move cash to IRA's to lower cash and net worth balances. Also, my understanding is that you can take money out of the IRA at any time without an early withdrawal penalty if it's used to pay down educational expenses. So, it's not like I won't be able to access this money at any time.

Don't you have to include that in Section 4, Question 42 on the FAFSA worksheet?:
As of today, what is the net worth of your (and your spouse’s) investments, including real estate (not your home)?

mbamatric wrote:
3) I know this is a really shady tactic, but I've read (Montauk's book being one) that one may want to transfer cash to your parents for a couple years to have less funds tied to your name for FAFSA purposes. Now, I'm really unsure as to whether or not this is even legal, and wouldn't want to risk doing so if it isn't. But, not sure if many students do this or not and if schools really care....

Thoughts on any of these strategies?

Depends if you qualify as an independent. I've definitely heard of people doing it if they are in other situations where having a low net worth may be beneficial (aka about to get sued). Probably something not worth messing around with unless you think it will make a big, big difference.
Current Student
Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 370
Location: New York, Paris
Schools: Wharton '11
Followers: 2

Kudos [?]: 6 [0], given: 2

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  29 Jan 2009, 15:52
Don't we have to file our 2008 Tax returns first? I still don't have my W2 from my bankrupt employer...
Current Student
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 248
Schools: R1: HBS(A), Kellogg(A), Michigan(A), Duke(A), Wharton(D)
Followers: 5

Kudos [?]: 33 [0], given: 0

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  29 Jan 2009, 15:54
falibay wrote:
Don't we have to file our 2008 Tax returns first? I still don't have my W2 from my bankrupt employer...

Same here! (except for the bankrupt part) And yes, you have to file your 2008 taxes before submitting for FASFA.
Intern
Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 3
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  29 Jan 2009, 16:10
bostonsparky wrote:
mbamatric wrote:

2) Maxing out contributions to IRAs. Since IRA balances aren't factored into your net worth calculation, I'm thinking it would be beneficial to move cash to IRA's to lower cash and net worth balances. Also, my understanding is that you can take money out of the IRA at any time without an early withdrawal penalty if it's used to pay down educational expenses. So, it's not like I won't be able to access this money at any time.

Don't you have to include that in Section 4, Question 42 on the FAFSA worksheet?:
As of today, what is the net worth of your (and your spouse’s) investments, including real estate (not your home)?

mbamatric wrote:
3) I know this is a really shady tactic, but I've read (Montauk's book being one) that one may want to transfer cash to your parents for a couple years to have less funds tied to your name for FAFSA purposes. Now, I'm really unsure as to whether or not this is even legal, and wouldn't want to risk doing so if it isn't. But, not sure if many students do this or not and if schools really care....

Thoughts on any of these strategies?

Depends if you qualify as an independent. I've definitely heard of people doing it if they are in other situations where having a low net worth may be beneficial (aka about to get sued). Probably something not worth messing around with unless you think it will make a big, big difference.

As far as IRA goes, they specifically say that retirement accounts are not included, so it would serve as a bit of a safe-haven for your cash...
Current Student
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 873
Location: Sunny So Cal
Schools: CBS, Cornell, Duke, Ross, Darden
Followers: 12

Kudos [?]: 191 [0], given: 4

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  29 Jan 2009, 17:05
mbamatric wrote:
As far as IRA goes, they specifically say that retirement accounts are not included, so it would serve as a bit of a safe-haven for your cash...

Not sure how many big savers are around here, but the Roth IRA is a great place to stash some assets before fillingn out the FAFSA. If you haven't already done so, you can contribute $5,000 for 2008 (before April 15) and another$5,000 for 2009. The best part is you can take out your contibutions whenever you want without penalty (dividends and cap gains can't be touched until you are 59 1/2, though).
_________________

The True Value of YOUR MBA: 103-t64239
GMATClub's Unofficial Chartered Financial Analyst thread: 103-t63245
How Much Weight Does the CFA Carry with Admissions: 103-t68059

Current Student
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 1262
Schools: Ross 2012
WE 1: 5 Years at Fortune 50 Company in Manufacturing
Followers: 17

Kudos [?]: 165 [0], given: 20

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  29 Jan 2009, 17:06
ryguy904 wrote:
mbamatric wrote:
As far as IRA goes, they specifically say that retirement accounts are not included, so it would serve as a bit of a safe-haven for your cash...

Not sure how many big savers are around here, but the Roth IRA is a great place to stash some assets before fillingn out the FAFSA. If you haven't already done so, you can contribute $5,000 for 2008 (before April 15) and another$5,000 for 2009. The best part is you can take out your contibutions whenever you want without penalty (dividends and cap gains can't be touched until you are 59 1/2, though).

_________________
Current Student
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 873
Location: Sunny So Cal
Schools: CBS, Cornell, Duke, Ross, Darden
Followers: 12

Kudos [?]: 191 [0], given: 4

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  29 Jan 2009, 17:12
GoBruins wrote:
ryguy904 wrote:
mbamatric wrote:
As far as IRA goes, they specifically say that retirement accounts are not included, so it would serve as a bit of a safe-haven for your cash...

Not sure how many big savers are around here, but the Roth IRA is a great place to stash some assets before fillingn out the FAFSA. If you haven't already done so, you can contribute $5,000 for 2008 (before April 15) and another$5,000 for 2009. The best part is you can take out your contibutions whenever you want without penalty (dividends and cap gains can't be touched until you are 59 1/2, though).

Retirement assets don't count when FAFSA determines your "school paying ability" assets. So here's how it works: you can have a) $10,000 in your checking/savings account or b)$10,000 in your Roth IRA. Option B will not be included in your assets (i.e., what they would say one could potentially contribute to pay for school).
_________________

The True Value of YOUR MBA: 103-t64239
GMATClub's Unofficial Chartered Financial Analyst thread: 103-t63245
How Much Weight Does the CFA Carry with Admissions: 103-t68059

Current Student
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 1262
Schools: Ross 2012
WE 1: 5 Years at Fortune 50 Company in Manufacturing
Followers: 17

Kudos [?]: 165 [0], given: 20

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  29 Jan 2009, 17:15
ryguy904 wrote:
Not sure how many big savers are around here, but the Roth IRA is a great place to stash some assets before fillingn out the FAFSA. If you haven't already done so, you can contribute $5,000 for 2008 (before April 15) and another$5,000 for 2009. The best part is you can take out your contibutions whenever you want without penalty (dividends and cap gains can't be touched until you are 59 1/2, though).

Retirement assets don't count when FAFSA determines your "school paying ability" assets. So here's how it works: you can have a) $10,000 in your checking/savings account or b)$10,000 in your Roth IRA. Option B will not be included in your assets (i.e., what they would say one could potentially contribute to pay for school).[/quote]

Well without the tax benefit, you might as well just have 10,000 in cash. why not just do a regular IRA. You can withdraw without penalty because of the exception for Higher Education. Also when you do pay taxes on the withdrawl NEXT YEAR, the rate will be lower since your income should have dropped conciderably.
_________________
Current Student
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 873
Location: Sunny So Cal
Schools: CBS, Cornell, Duke, Ross, Darden
Followers: 12

Kudos [?]: 191 [0], given: 4

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  29 Jan 2009, 17:43
GoBruins wrote:
ryguy904 wrote:
Not sure how many big savers are around here, but the Roth IRA is a great place to stash some assets before fillingn out the FAFSA. If you haven't already done so, you can contribute $5,000 for 2008 (before April 15) and another$5,000 for 2009. The best part is you can take out your contibutions whenever you want without penalty (dividends and cap gains can't be touched until you are 59 1/2, though).

GoBruins wrote:

ryguy904 wrote:
Retirement assets don't count when FAFSA determines your "school paying ability" assets. So here's how it works: you can have a) $10,000 in your checking/savings account or b)$10,000 in your Roth IRA. Option B will not be included in your assets (i.e., what they would say one could potentially contribute to pay for school).

GoBruins wrote:
Well without the tax benefit, you might as well just have 10,000 in cash. why not just do a regular IRA. You can withdraw without penalty because of the exception for Higher Education. Also when you do pay taxes on the withdrawl NEXT YEAR, the rate will be lower since your income should have dropped conciderably.

I hear what your saying, but it's not the route that I would go. Again, although the Roth doesn't have a tax benefit (1-something that I'm not eligible for anyway given my income level and 2-maxmimum benfit of about $1,000 tax deduction, assuming 25% tax rate), again my point was that a Roth shields the assets. So when you say, "might as well have cash" - well NO, because cash will be included as an asset, and a Roth won't. Horse beaten. Now that that is cleared up, I'm not going to get into a Roth v. Traditional IRA debate. There are hundreds of articles on the internet that have already done that. Just my two post-tax pennies, though. _________________ The True Value of YOUR MBA: 103-t64239 GMATClub's Unofficial Chartered Financial Analyst thread: 103-t63245 How Much Weight Does the CFA Carry with Admissions: 103-t68059 Current Student Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Posts: 69 Location: Bay Area, CA Schools: Cornell '11 Followers: 2 Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0 Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink] 29 Jan 2009, 19:09 Yup, I think I'm gonna max out my Roth IRA contributions this year to shield those assets from FAFSA and then simply pull them out, penalty free, when I need to repay my student loans... Director Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Posts: 908 Schools: Kellogg '10 Followers: 6 Kudos [?]: 87 [0], given: 15 Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink] 29 Jan 2009, 19:37 ryguy904 wrote: mbamatric wrote: As far as IRA goes, they specifically say that retirement accounts are not included, so it would serve as a bit of a safe-haven for your cash... Not sure how many big savers are around here, but the Roth IRA is a great place to stash some assets before fillingn out the FAFSA. If you haven't already done so, you can contribute$5,000 for 2008 (before April 15) and another $5,000 for 2009. The best part is you can take out your contibutions whenever you want without penalty (dividends and cap gains can't be touched until you are 59 1/2, though). I thought Roth IRAs can't be utilized if you make over a certain amount of money, something around$90K/year, unless I'm mistaken.
_________________
Current Student
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 356
Schools: Chicago Booth '11
Followers: 5

Kudos [?]: 21 [0], given: 0

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  30 Jan 2009, 06:23
Good question. I was thinking about this, as I have some cash I need to decide what to do with. I wanted to keep this sum as somewhat of a reserve during school, something we could tap into for various living expenses rather than being tempted by credit cards. Sounds like perhaps dumping it into an IRA might be better than putting it into some other liquid account?

However, as somebody else noted, I'm not sure how much difference it will make. Wouldn't the total amount available for the student to contribute affect the subsidized loan amount offered? You can still borrow up to the limit on unsubsidized and then get the rest through the Plus loans at 8.5%, regardless of how much you have available in savings, right?
VP
Joined: 09 Dec 2008
Posts: 1221
Schools: Kellogg Class of 2011
Followers: 21

Kudos [?]: 240 [0], given: 17

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  30 Jan 2009, 06:34
MeddlingKid wrote:
Wouldn't the total amount available for the student to contribute affect the subsidized loan amount offered? You can still borrow up to the limit on unsubsidized and then get the rest through the Plus loans at 8.5%, regardless of how much you have available in savings, right?

The amount of assets you have would figure into the calculation of your "expected family contribution," which the school uses in figuring out your financial aid award. It certainly would affect whether you qualify for subsidized Stafford loans or need-based scholarships (if your school offers them), but I don't think it would affect unsubsidized or Plus loans.
_________________
Director
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 852
Location: Chicago
Schools: Chicago Booth 2011
Followers: 11

Kudos [?]: 87 [0], given: 1

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  30 Jan 2009, 09:47
cpgmba wrote:
falibay wrote:
Don't we have to file our 2008 Tax returns first? I still don't have my W2 from my bankrupt employer...

Same here! (except for the bankrupt part) And yes, you have to file your 2008 taxes before submitting for FASFA.

Do you have to file/submit or just complete the forms?
Current Student
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 299
Schools: Kellogg Class of 2011
Followers: 3

Kudos [?]: 70 [0], given: 15

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  17 Feb 2009, 05:05
solaris1 wrote:
Play around with various scenarios and see how they affect financial aid eligibility before you submit your FAFSA through the FAFSA4Caster.

http://www.fafsa4caster.ed.gov/

For the most part, most of us are only going to be offered unsubsidized Stafford loans, and since they're NOT need-based it doesn't quite matter if you "shield" a few thousand bucks in an IRA or in your Mom's checking account or wherever. I personally find all this strategizing to be an ethical grey area.

ryguy904's suggestion on the Roth IRAs is a good one though. You can technically withdraw principal without penalty and additional taxes at any time, and withdraw earnings for educational expenses without penalty, too.

So what does it take to qualify for the subsidized Stafford loan ($8500)? Do MBA students ever qualify for that portion or is it mostly for undergrads? I played around with the fafsa4caster last night, and even with very little savings it looks like I only qualify for the unsubsidized portion ($20,500).
Current Student
Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 197
Schools: Chicago Booth '11
Followers: 2

Kudos [?]: 14 [0], given: 2

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  17 Feb 2009, 05:26
if your unsubisidized portion is only $20,500, where do you go for the remainder of the funds? Have any of the international students identified resourses for loans yet? All the schools say they're confident the loans will be available but I haven't seen any programs yet. Current Student Joined: 02 Aug 2008 Posts: 112 Schools: HBS '11 Followers: 4 Kudos [?]: 5 [0], given: 0 Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink] 17 Feb 2009, 06:17 maverick2011 wrote: pguard wrote: if your unsubisidized portion is only$20,500, where do you go for the remainder of the funds?

Have any of the international students identified resourses for loans yet? All the schools say they're confident the loans will be available but I haven't seen any programs yet.

The way I understand it these are the loan options, in order of most to least attractive:

1. subsidized Stafford - subsidized (interest doesn't accrue until you graduate), low interest rate, max amount of $8,500 2. unsubsidized Stafford - unsubsidized, low interest rate, max amount of$20,500
3. federal Grad PLUS loans - higher interest rate, no maximum amount. See the following:

4. Miscellaneous - some schools offer other funding options. For example, Kellogg allows you to apply for Northwestern student loans. I don't think everyone qualifies, but I don't know much about that though.
5. Outside sources - private lenders that you find on your own.

I don't think you have to start paying on any of these options until you graduate.

You don't have to start paying on the loans, but for some of them (unsubsidized Stafford) the 6.8% interest is accrued day 1 and is capitalized (added to your principal). My question is, can anyone get unsubsidized Stafford loans? regardless of savings?

"You might be able to borrow loan funds beyond your subsidized loan amount even if you don't have demonstrated financial need. In that case, you'd receive an unsubsidized loan. Your school will subtract the total amount of your other financial aid from your cost of attendance to determine whether you're eligible for an unsubsidized loan. Unlike a subsidized loan, you are responsible for the interest from the time the unsubsidized loan is disbursed until it's paid in full. You can choose to pay the interest or allow it to accrue (accumulate) and be capitalized (that is, added to the principal amount of your loan). Capitalizing the interest will increase the amount you have to repay."
Current Student
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 299
Schools: Kellogg Class of 2011
Followers: 3

Kudos [?]: 70 [0], given: 15

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  17 Feb 2009, 06:29
@bball, exactly. It probably makes sense to pay the interest each month while in school if you can afford it. My point was that you don't HAVE to (e.g. if you needed the extra money for living expenses, trips, etc).

I think it's pretty easy to get the unsubsidized Stafford. I've been playing around with different savings scenarios on fafsa4caster (I recommend you try it - it's free and easy to use). Even with my maximum savings amount, which is not huge but still substantial, I qualify for the max unsubsidized amount of \$20,500. With zero savings or investments, I qualify for a small amount of subsidized, but it is so small that it's not worth the trouble.
Senior Manager
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 318
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Schools: Ross Class of 2011
Followers: 6

Kudos [?]: 96 [0], given: 0

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  17 Feb 2009, 06:51
hemm maybe I put something wrong in but it looked like I only qualify for 10k
Director
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 908
Schools: Kellogg '10
Followers: 6

Kudos [?]: 87 [0], given: 15

Re: FAFSA Strategies [#permalink]  17 Feb 2009, 07:14
lsuguy7 wrote:
hemm maybe I put something wrong in but it looked like I only qualify for 10k

I think the issue is that the 4caster thing only seems to apply to undergrad. The 10K looks like their annual estimate for the average cost of public undergrads, so they won't say you qualify for more than they expect it to cost you to attend. I don't think the 4caster is very helpful except to determine if you qualify for the subsidized stuff, which it appears you don't (same here), at least based on their inapplicable estimates of average cost. Unless I am mistaken, doing the 4caster is kind of irrelevant for anyone who doesn't match the subsidized criteria because the unsubsidized stuff and grad+ stuff is not need-based.
_________________
Re: FAFSA Strategies   [#permalink] 17 Feb 2009, 07:14

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