djinn wrote:
AlexMBAApply wrote:
Keep in mind that full-time programs aren't designed for mid-career professionals looking for similarly mid-career post-MBA jobs. They are geared towards people early in their careers (mostly 5 years or less of work experience) who are looking for entry-level jobs post-MBA (whether it's in finance, consulting, or corporate). Yes, there are a small minority of mid-career folks at full-time programs who are seeking mid-level post-MBA jobs, but for the most part they are on their own when it comes to job hunting (i.e. career services won't be of much use to you as they are geared towards matchmaking corporates who heavily recruit MBAs at a junior or entry level and the young MBA grads who want them).
Alex, like others I appreciate your candor.
Can you address how this advice applies to career-switchers? It's my understanding that moving into a completely different sector (IT to nonprofit management, for example) typically means looking at the same kinds of entry-level post-MBA work as any other new grad. Should a mid-career switcher address his/her understanding of this situation at interview time or in essays and apps, or does an EMBA still make more sense for someone 30+ with > 10 years experience?
Thanks!
Here's the thing. If you're looking to switch into a business career after 10+ years experience, going for a full-time MBA *in theory* would make sense - IF the full-time programs as they are designed today are geared towards mid-career professionals. But they are not. It's a larger discussion -- but it's more of a mismatch that MBA programs will need to address down the road as more and more people switch careers in their 40s and 50s -- the b-schools will have to one day develop a full-time MBA program for mid-career professionals (i.e. a separate full-time program) that is designed to address the specific needs of those with 10+ years in another career and looking to "start over" in a new career. Harvard's Kennedy School has done this with their MPP -- a separate full-time program for mid-career professionals that is distinct from their regular MPP degree program.
The fact is, someone with 10-15 + years experience looking to break into the business world will have a different set of challenges and opportunities compared to someone with 5 years or less experience. You can't just assume that at the age of 35 you should expect to take the same path and entry into the business world as someone who is 25.
For example, if let's say after 10+ years experience in IT, you now want to get into investment banking. You can't expect that Goldman, Morgan, Citi, JPM, etc are going to see you in the same light as the 25 year old kid no matter how you "position" yourself in the recruiting process. They simply want younger kids, and will have enough younger kids to fill their ranks. Does that mean you are barred from a career in investment banking? Absolutely not. But you'll have to find an alternate way of getting there -- working at a startup advisory firm or middle market firm outside of NYC. Finding another job in finance (corp fin at a Fortune 500, etc) and gaining 10+ years of experience until you have the C-level type of experience -- and then bypass all the associate-VP ranks and get hired as a director or MD in the longer-term. Same goes with consulting - you may not get hired directly at a big consulting firm like McKinsey, but maybe a smaller, regional player - or gaining a ton of industry experience for another 5-10 years before being hired at McKinsey as an experienced industry hire. In other words, you can still reach your LONG-TERM goal, but you'll have to be a lot more flexible in the short-term than someone who is a decade or more younger than you.
It's like sports. You want to play in the NFL. But you're already done college, you're a little older, but you feel you can still play. You can't expect that your route to get on the team is going to be the same as someone who plays D1 and can get drafted right out of college. It's a tall order as it is -- but nonetheless you'll have to find another way -- play your way into the arena league, or the CFL, or NFL Europe - and then hope that you'll get noticed by an NFL team. Or, if you're in your 40s and still love football, becoming a professional player may not be realistic, but working on the team as a coach, offensive/defensive coordinator, assistant GM, trainer, scout, etc. may be a good alternative.
With full-time MBA programs as they are today - they are set up to process and place people primarily with 5 years or less experience into junior (or entry level) positions. As someone who may be significantly older than the rest, your route into these industries will more than likely not involve going after the same entry level positions as the 26 year old MBA graduate. Simply put, most employers who come on campus looking for MBAs are looking for the kids. That's the hard and unfortunate truth.
In short, apply to full-time programs if you wish, but do so with eyes wide open, and with realistic expectations that no matter how sensible your story may be, the system as it stands is stacked against you - b-school admissions and the traditional MBA employers alike.
From an admissions standpoint, the other thing is that most of the "outliers" in terms of age (those say 34+) tend to be from non-traditional pre-MBA careers (i.e. outside of finance, corporate, consulting, IT, engineering) -- they may be physicians, a few lawyers, science researchers, military officers, nonprofit, politics, arts, etc.
My point is, if you are an older candidate and you're not from a non-traditional pre-MBA career path, you cannot afford to place all your hopes on the MBA as the key element in your career switch. Yes, you can make a successful career switch, but you'll have to be a lot more flexible, open-minded, and creative in doing it by looking at other avenues -- because even if you think that the full-time MBA may make sense to you, the adcoms may not give you the chance.
For anyone at any age, think of the MBA as an option, and not the *sole* way to getting whatever it is you want. Don't get so hung up on the MBA being the key to your goals. And this is even more the case the more experienced you are. It's one path, but in the process of making that career switch you have to come up with other alternate ways of reaching your career goals.
Not to get too long winded (haha....) put it this way. Let's say a 40-year old who spent a career teaching English now wants to work in IT and has no formal educational background in computers/tech/engineering (but has a huge interest that was developed informally). Can this person make the switch? If so, would you suggest the same path to getting that IT job as you would some 18 year old high school kid about to go to college? Would you suggest that this person go through 4 years full-time to get another bachelor's degree, then another 2 years doing an MS? And even then, would you suggest that this person take the same career path as someone half his/her age?