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Re: Doubt on Independent Clause [#permalink]
Just so that I understand correctly

"its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom." - This is a Phrase Not a clause because we are lacking a verb here right ?
"it is now included in virtually every textbook of elementary physics." - This is a Dependent Clause , whereas
"an observation about electric current first made in 1845" - It's a modifier (Noun+Noun modifier) and not a clause
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Doubt on Independent Clause [#permalink]
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ThePlayer wrote:
Just so that I understand correctly

"its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom." - This is a Phrase Not a clause because we are lacking a verb here right ?
"it is now included in virtually every textbook of elementary physics." - This is a Dependent Clause , whereas
"an observation about electric current first made in 1845" - It's a modifier (Noun+Noun modifier) and not a clause


hi,
" thought " is a verb in "its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom."--an absolute phrase that can act as a dependent clause
made in second is again a verb,..
a modifier can easily be like a dependent clause
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Re: Doubt on Independent Clause [#permalink]
Thanks Chetan , it's clear to me now :-)
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Re: Doubt on Independent Clause [#permalink]
ThePlayer wrote:
Hi Guys , I have a doubt with the below 2 questions-

Can someone please explain that Why in Option B of Q1 sentence starting after comma- ",its square mile.." is Not an Independent Clause , whereas in Option D of Q2 sentence starting after comma ", it is now included in virtually..." is an Independent Clause ? Also can someone please help with the Q2 , I know it has been posted earlier on this forum but the explanation was not clear to me.

Thanks !

Q1. With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

(A) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, and with
(B) Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its
(C) Europa has long been considered as far too cold to support life and has
(D) Europa, long considered as far too cold to support life, and its
(E) Europa, long considered to be far too cold to support life, and to have

Q2. In 1995 Richard Stallman, a well-known critic of the patent system, testified in Patent Office hearings that, to test the system, a colleague of his had managed to win a patent for one of Kirchhoff's laws, an observation about electric current first made in 1845 and now included in virtually every textbook of elementary physics.

(A) laws, an observation about electric current first made in 1845 and
(B) laws, which was an observation about electric current first made in 1845 and it is
(C) laws, namely, it was an observation about electric current first made in 1845 and
(D) laws, an observation about electric current first made in 1845, it is
(E) laws that was an observation about electric current, first made in 1845, and is


Good Questions.

Clarified my doubts too! :)
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Doubt on Independent Clause [#permalink]
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chetan2u wrote:
ThePlayer wrote:
Just so that I understand correctly

"its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom." - This is a Phrase Not a clause because we are lacking a verb here right ?
"it is now included in virtually every textbook of elementary physics." - This is a Dependent Clause , whereas
"an observation about electric current first made in 1845" - It's a modifier (Noun+Noun modifier) and not a clause


hi,
" thought " is a verb in "its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom."--an absolute phrase that can act as a dependent clause
made in second is again a verb,..
a modifier can easily be a dependent clause


Hi Chetan2u... I have a query here. Noun and verb should make sense is my understanding, if it is not making sense then we can say that as a modifier. This is my understanding.

"Europa's 60 square miles thought to be frozen" - here my understanding is "60 square miles can't think on it own" .. It should be "60 square miles was thought as frozen by someone" .. this will make sense.. this is my understanding...

can you help me whr I m going wrong here.

Bcos my understanding is "A noun and a verb should make sense on its own"

The below one is a GMAT Prep Question.

First discovered more than 30 years ago, Lina's sunbird, a four-and-a-half-inch animal found in the Philippines and that resembles a hummingbird, has shimmering metallic colors on its head; a brilliant orange patch, bordered with red tufts, in the center of its breast; and a red eye.

A. found in the Philippines and that resembles
B. found in the Philippines and that, resembling
C. found in the Philippines and resembling
D. that is found in the Philippines and it resembles
E. that is found in the Philippines, resembling


Sunbird found in Philippines and resembling a hummingbird has shimmering metallic color on its head.

Here Found and Resembling are modifiers of Sunbird and can't act as a verb.

Similarly "An observation made in 1845" if "Made" here is acting a verb, the meaning will be like "an observation made something" but the intended meaning is "someone made the observation". If its in passive, then we can say its correct. "An observation was made by someone" this makes a clause. The prior one looks as phrase to me since it lacks verb.

The above is my understanding. Kindly help me in my understanding.
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Re: Doubt on Independent Clause [#permalink]
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sowragu wrote:
"Europa's 60 square miles thought to be frozen" - here my understanding is "60 square miles can't think on it own" .. It should be "60 square miles was thought as frozen by someone" .. this will make sense.. this is my understanding...

can you help me whr I m going wrong here.
Your analysis is correct. Thought is not a (complete) verb in that construction (the one in the correct option).
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Doubt on Independent Clause [#permalink]
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sowragu wrote:
chetan2u wrote:
ThePlayer wrote:
Just so that I understand correctly

"its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom." - This is a Phrase Not a clause because we are lacking a verb here right ?
"it is now included in virtually every textbook of elementary physics." - This is a Dependent Clause , whereas
"an observation about electric current first made in 1845" - It's a modifier (Noun+Noun modifier) and not a clause


hi,
" thought " is a verb in "its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom."--an absolute phrase that can act as a dependent clause
made in second is again a verb,..
a modifier can easily be a dependent clause


Hi Chetan2u... I have a query here. Noun and verb should make sense is my understanding, if it is not making sense then we can say that as a modifier. This is my understanding.

"Europa's 60 square miles thought to be frozen" - here my understanding is "60 square miles can't think on it own" .. It should be "60 square miles was thought as frozen by someone" .. this will make sense.. this is my understanding...

can you help me whr I m going wrong here.

Bcos my understanding is "A noun and a verb should make sense on its own"

The below one is a GMAT Prep Question.

First discovered more than 30 years ago, Lina's sunbird, a four-and-a-half-inch animal found in the Philippines and that resembles a hummingbird, has shimmering metallic colors on its head; a brilliant orange patch, bordered with red tufts, in the center of its breast; and a red eye.

A. found in the Philippines and that resembles
B. found in the Philippines and that, resembling
C. found in the Philippines and resembling
D. that is found in the Philippines and it resembles
E. that is found in the Philippines, resembling


Sunbird found in Philippines and resembling a hummingbird has shimmering metallic color on its head.

Here Found and Resembling are modifiers of Sunbird and can't act as a verb.

Similarly "An observation made in 1845" if "Made" here is acting a verb, the meaning will be like "an observation made something" but the intended meaning is "someone made the observation". If its in passive, then we can say its correct. "An observation was made by someone" this makes a clause. The prior one looks as phrase to me since it lacks verb.

The above is my understanding. Kindly help me in my understanding.


Hi,
Few points on a complicated topic " Modifiers".
1) firstly modifier or here an absolute phrase can take to verb, the infinitive form..
2) Yes, thought here acts as a participle followed by "to be " a infinitive verb...
3) The modifiers are a vast and complicated topic.., You can have phrase- modifier and clause- modifier too..
4) So thinking that a modifier cannot have a VERB may not be correct
5) You are correct on "made" part. It is a participle modifying the NOUN- an observation..
6) also Clause does require a subject, as pointed, May be in a hurry I read the Q wrongly and termed absolute phraes as dependent clause..
+1 for your observation
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