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Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year

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Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 17 Mar 2012, 06:36
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Hey guys!

I have 2yrs of BB banking experience and 2yrs at a middle market PE shop in NY. I want to stay in PE on either east coast or west coast. I am waitlisted at HBS and still waiting for Wharton and Kellogg.

So as I sit here today, I have two offers (1) Haas (no $$) and (2) Ross with $$. The problem is I am beginning to think that I should wait a year and then re-apply to HBS. I have a pretty good story and feel I can break into top 3 with higher GMAT.

What do you guys think? Would you take the Ross $$ and run? Or forfeit the $$ and head to Haas? Lastly, should I put my head down and grind out another year then re-apply to HBS?
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 17 Mar 2012, 08:10
Mr510 wrote:
Hey guys!

I have 2yrs of BB banking experience and 2yrs at a middle market PE shop in NY. I want to stay in PE on either east coast or west coast. I am waitlisted at HBS and still waiting for Wharton and Kellogg.

So as I sit here today, I have two offers (1) Haas (no $$) and (2) Ross with $$. The problem is I am beginning to think that I should wait a year and then re-apply to HBS. I have a pretty good story and feel I can break into top 3 with higher GMAT.

What do you guys think? Would you take the Ross $$ and run? Or forfeit the $$ and head to Haas? Lastly, should I put my head down and grind out another year then re-apply to HBS?


how much is the $$? Haas and Ross are same level programs so it's absolutely absurd to go to Haas.

If you are young and have good luck, try to wait a year and reapply.
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 17 Mar 2012, 08:47
All tuition covered at Ross. Not room and board. And I am 25yrs old....

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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 17 Mar 2012, 10:06
Mr510 wrote:
All tuition covered at Ross. Not room and board. And I am 25yrs old....

Posted from my mobile device Image


Personally, I would not reapply to HBS next year. I know you're on the waiting list and right now it probably feels like you are *so close* to being admitted, but there's no guarantee that you will be admitted if you reapply, and you would be giving up two great offers.

I disagree with mustin - Haas has a better reputation than Ross. But, a full scholarship might be a huge weight lifted off your shoulders. If you gave up Ross for Haas, would you be in financial hardship?

The other issue at play here is fit. If you haven't already, I would suggest visiting both schools to determine where you see yourself. Look into the alumni network and check out the employment reports at both schools to see if the employers you plan to target have connections or recruit at both schools.

I don't think you can make a wrong decision here. You will get a great education at either one.
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 17 Mar 2012, 10:08
Your goal is to stay in PE. I think what you need to figure out between Ross and Haas is which school puts you in the best position to meet that goal. Forget the money for now. Figure out which school puts you in the best position.

If the school is Ross then perfect, you are in with money. If it is Haas then you have a second level of understanding. How much better is Haas for this. Is it enough to justify the extra 100K it will cost or is not that realistic.

One thing to remember, Haas is going to make it easier to get into anything in the SF area which is in alignment with your goals.

If you want to wait and work for another year that is a different personal decision. One thing I would caution is what if you apply again next year and do not get into a top 3. What if your only options next year are Haas and Ross or what if they say no next year after you getting in and deciding not to go. There are a lot more risks to waiting a year then going this year. You just need to make sure you are ok with all those risks in an effort to get to H/S/W.

Good luck with your decision, hope this helps you try to figure it out
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 17 Mar 2012, 14:01
ls413 wrote:
Mr510 wrote:
All tuition covered at Ross. Not room and board. And I am 25yrs old....

Posted from my mobile device Image


Personally, I would not reapply to HBS next year. I know you're on the waiting list and right now it probably feels like you are *so close* to being admitted, but there's no guarantee that you will be admitted if you reapply, and you would be giving up two great offers.

I disagree with mustin - Haas has a better reputation than Ross. But, a full scholarship might be a huge weight lifted off your shoulders. If you gave up Ross for Haas, would you be in financial hardship?

The other issue at play here is fit. If you haven't already, I would suggest visiting both schools to determine where you see yourself. Look into the alumni network and check out the employment reports at both schools to see if the employers you plan to target have connections or recruit at both schools.

I don't think you can make a wrong decision here. You will get a great education at either one.


Yes, both Haas and Ross are good programs and I seriously don't think Haas has a better reputation than Ross. They are in many ways the same tier school. One advantage of Haas is the location, where there are many opportunities of all kinds. That being said, the full scholarship of Ross can definitely make up for that.

Good luck!
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 17 Mar 2012, 17:53
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If you want to stay in PE, you probably need to wait a year and get into a top 3 program.

I know that seems ridiculous, but if you're already in PE, you'll know what I'm talking about. All the major PE firms (let's call it $1 billion fund size and up) recruit almost exclusively from HSW. The funds hire so few people, and there are so many ex-PE guys at HSW, that there is sufficient supply just at those three schools to fill post-MBA needs at nearly all major firms.

Some of the NYC firms may take a few from Columbia and Tuck, some of the Chicago firms may take a few from Booth and Kellogg, and some of the SF firms may take a few from Haas and Anderson, but that's about it in terms of recruiting from other schools.

Think about it, most funds hire 0-2 post-MBA people per year. Let's say there are 200 US-based funds with >$1 billion fund size (source: PEI 300 shows 277 firms with >$1B fund size, of which many are in Europe and Asia. So I'm estimating 200). Let's say they each hire 1 person per year, on average. So there are 200 spots per year. If only 10% of H, S, and W recruit into PE (90 + 40 + 80 people = 210 total), that is already greater than the total market size of available positions. And greater than 10% of HSW's classes try to recruit into PE each year.

Another way to look at this is to check out the websites of all the top PE firms. I would estimate that >80% of VPs and above got their MBA from HSW. Maybe even >90%.

Anyway, my point is, if you are dead-set on getting back into PE post-MBA, I strongly recommend improving your GMAT and re-applying to HSW next year. It will be MUCH easier to recruit into PE if you do so.

Now, if you're interested in lower-middle-market, or interested in a fund in a regional city (Dallas, Houston, Nashville, Miami, etc.), other options could also work. But if you're interested in a larger fund in a major city, you need a top 3 MBA. Just my opinion.
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 18 Mar 2012, 11:25
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If you want to stay in PE, you probably need to wait a year and get into a top 3 program.

I know that seems ridiculous, but if you're already in PE, you'll know what I'm talking about. All the major PE firms (let's call it $1 billion fund size and up) recruit almost exclusively from HSW. The funds hire so few people, and there are so many ex-PE guys at HSW, that there is sufficient supply just at those three schools to fill post-MBA needs at nearly all major firms.

Some of the NYC firms may take a few from Columbia and Tuck, some of the Chicago firms may take a few from Booth and Kellogg, and some of the SF firms may take a few from Haas and Anderson, but that's about it in terms of recruiting from other schools.

Think about it, most funds hire 0-2 post-MBA people per year. Let's say there are 200 US-based funds with >$1 billion fund size (source: PEI 300 shows 277 firms with >$1B fund size, of which many are in Europe and Asia. So I'm estimating 200). Let's say they each hire 1 person per year, on average. So there are 200 spots per year. If only 10% of H, S, and W recruit into PE (90 + 40 + 80 people = 210 total), that is already greater than the total market size of available positions. And greater than 10% of HSW's classes try to recruit into PE each year.

Another way to look at this is to check out the websites of all the top PE firms. I would estimate that >80% of VPs and above got their MBA from HSW. Maybe even >90%.

Anyway, my point is, if you are dead-set on getting back into PE post-MBA, I strongly recommend improving your GMAT and re-applying to HSW next year. It will be MUCH easier to recruit into PE if you do so.

Now, if you're interested in lower-middle-market, or interested in a fund in a regional city (Dallas, Houston, Nashville, Miami, etc.), other options could also work. But if you're interested in a larger fund in a major city, you need a top 3 MBA. Just my opinion.



Thanks for your thoughts. I certainly understand where you are coming from. My goal is middle market PE, so funds <$1bn under management. However, even when going through the websites of many of the firms I will reach out to, all I see is HSW backgrounds. In fact, my firm is full of HBS grads. I know it is not impossible to get a post-MBA PE position coming from Haas or Ross, but it will be difficult.

And thanks to all for your opinions, very helpful. Will keep you guys posted!!
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 18 Mar 2012, 15:49
batman28 wrote:
I don't want to debate with the person above but getting into HSW is not as easy as it sounds.

Plus it's simply not true that if one wants PE, one must go to HSW otherwise, it's over.

http://privateequityblogger.com/2010/08 ... s.html?m=1

I also personally know a guy who broke into PE from NYU with no prior background near finance (he was a Boeing engineer with a mech eng degree from CMU).

There's also a path to PE from consulting. So getting into schools that can place him/her in consulting, he/she can transition to PE later.

If he/she has w/e in PE already, that's just better too.

This "you must be in HSW to get a PE job" is very possibly not true.

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Batman, I agree that one doesn't NEED to go to a top 3 program to get into PE. But it is VERY difficult to get into PE if you do not go to a top 3 program. Bear in mind that I am talking about mid-market funds and up (>$1 billion AUM). There is a HUGE number of small PE funds (<$1 billion AUM) all over the U.S. that might hire 1 person every 3 years or something. There is no way to generalize hiring patterns for such funds. But if you're interested in larger funds with regular recruiting patterns, it is extremely challenging to break in from outside HSW.

The guy you know from NYU probably either had specialized knowledge that was useful to that PE fund, recruited into a small PE fund, or already knew someone at the firm. I don't know of any large PE funds that recruit at Stern regularly (and Stern is an outstanding program!). That's my point - even though the OP got into Haas and Ross (two fantastic programs), it will be difficult to break into PE from those places. Just the nature of an industry that has wayyy more people trying to break in than spots available.
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 19 Mar 2012, 06:33
My advice is don't take advice from anyone who doesn't know exactly what they're talking about. Ask some MBAs at your firm for their opinion. Unless you work for a bunch of tools, I bet no one will focus on marginal differences in rank. Everyone will be impressed with your full scholarship. These are exactly the kind of people that will be making a decision on you post MBA, so think about what that means for you. PE recruiting is probably going to be mostly networking no matter where you go, so opinions of people like these are really all that matter.

I have two additional comments: If you think your GMAT score could come up in your interviews, you may want to take it again anyway. And you can certainly submit it to Harvard now while you're on the waitlist rather than waiting to apply again next year if you think that's the main thing keeping you out. But I doubt it could really be that bad if you got a full scholarship to Ross.

You should let Haas know your situation and see if they'll offer you some kind of scholarship. It probably won't work, but some people have done it successfully and at worst it can't hurt. If you really prefer Haas it's worth a shot.
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 19 Mar 2012, 16:06
Mr510, you're still waiting on Wharton and Kellogg, correct? I assume you got interviewed at both? Your entire b-school landscape could change in the next two weeks... Is there a reason you're trying to make the decision to reapply to HBS right now? Wharton is an excellent feeder program into PE.
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 19 Mar 2012, 17:08
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Mr510, you're still waiting on Wharton and Kellogg, correct? I assume you got interviewed at both? Your entire b-school landscape could change in the next two weeks... Is there a reason you're trying to make the decision to reapply to HBS right now? Wharton is an excellent feeder program into PE.


Yes you are correct! My prayer is that I wont have to make this call. However, if Wharton/Kellogg don't work out, I have a real decision to make. I would have to speak with my firm ASAP about staying another year and my Haas deposit is due the same day as Wharton news. Lastly, I want to think through this now with a clear head (vs. the big day of 3/30 when Wharton sends decisions).

Quote:
I have two additional comments: If you think your GMAT score could come up in your interviews, you may want to take it again anyway. And you can certainly submit it to Harvard now while you're on the waitlist rather than waiting to apply again next year if you think that's the main thing keeping you out. But I doubt it could really be that bad if you got a full scholarship to Ross.


Great points. I am pretty confident that HBS is given me time to submit a higher score. But I'm working on a new deal and would totally piss off my firm if I told them I was re-taking the GMAT. I usually believe there is time to get anything done if you forfeit sleep and going out, but taking GMAT before this summer is impossible. Besides, I am focused on "replenishing" my goodwill at my firm after spending so much time on b-school apps and GMAT.
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 19 Mar 2012, 17:17
If you want to stay in PE, why are you applying to schools that are strong for consulting/GM? Ross and Haas will not open new doors for you, most of your job search will be through cold-calling. Even Kellogg will give you limited leverage. You should be targeting schools like Wharton, Booth, Columbia/NYU, etc.
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 30 Mar 2012, 08:26
Thread closed. I'm going to Wharton! Thanks for your thoughts guys!
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 30 Mar 2012, 09:57
just to throw everyone out for a loop I did get into PE (TOP NYC shop) and I do not have an MBA nor did I get my undergraduate/masters degree from a prestigious program. Key is to know someone in the industry... you can get those contacts at any top 10 school. Its a matter of luck.


Congrats on Wharton! My dream school... Paint me jealous :)
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year [#permalink] New post 30 Mar 2012, 10:39
Mr510 wrote:
Thread closed. I'm going to Wharton! Thanks for your thoughts guys!


Congratulations! This is why I didn't bother to respond previously. Kind of silly to debate all this when you still had more to come!
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Re: Haas vs Ross w/$$$ vs. reapply HBS next year   [#permalink] 30 Mar 2012, 10:39
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